06 5 with FRONT tire wear only, rear fine?

[timoboy]

Seems my 06 5 sport is quite the anomaly. It has ZERO issues with rear tire wear, however my front wear is HORRENDOUS! Seems the opposite of what I read everyone with an 06-07 has?!?! Factory toyos got me to 27k before a HUNK came off the front. Backs still had 80% but we put on a new set of Yokohama's they came very highly recommended. The were the 2nd most expensive tires in stock behind only the Michelins which I REFUSE to run ever due to their crappy rubber that cracks in under 2 years on the sidewalls. Anyhow, I am at 10k on the yokos and fronts are down to the wear bars. Rears are still at 85-90%.

Any ideas? car is driven like a grandma. New kyb shocks/struts at 30k. Aligned by best shop in town and they said it was dead on. Tire pressure kept at the max. 99% of the time 1 lighter person is in the car. I can count on 1 hand the number of times anyone has sat in the back, only had to use the 3 rd row 1 time when the car was 1 month old (Maybe that is why the rears don't wear out? no one ever sits in the back 2 rows?). Anyhow I realize there is a toe kit to fix the rear wear issue, but I don't see this issue on mine at all, so I don't see the point? Unless it would somehow affect and fix my front alignment?

I understand the importance of rotating tires, but honestly it is better for me to NOT rotate them with wear this bad, as I only have to replace 2 tires at a time, and I get the high prorated discount off the next pair. I go in there with 10k worn out tires I get a huge discount compared with 4 worn at 27k.

 

[flcruising]

The wear pattern will tell you the story of how the alignment or suspension needs addressing.
Tire pressure kept max? Please explain. Max cold pressure as stated on sidewall? Not ideal.

 

[lakersfan1]

When was the alignment done in relation to the new shocks being installed? If you didn't let the suspension re-settle before aligning, it's possible it went back out of alignment as it settled.
There has got to be a current alignment issue if your tires are bald already, unless you're running R-rated racing compound tires.

 

[timoboy]

Yes pressure kept at max recommended my the tire store (not the sidewall necessarily but they are pretty close), they and the alignment shop told me to do this

Alignment done RIGHT after new struts. Tires are just standard $150 Yokohama, highly recommended tire, I had the alignment shop look them up and they told me that they were surprised at the tire wear given how high quality (NO NOT A RACING TIRE) a tire I was running.

Here is what the tires look like, the rears have ZERO cupping, and show little to no wear. The fronts will LITERALLY WEAR THE INNER MOST PORTION TO THREADS, while the outside of the front tires remains normal. I have been told that because this is FWD there is no camber adjustment, and the van is exhibiting classic excessive positive camber.

Once again, have taken to several places to get aligned, last was the best place in town, they are amazingly knowledgeable and we discussed the problem at length, ending up deciding it is a design flaw...that is costing me $350 in new tires every 8-10K! There has to be something that can be done.

Man I HATE FWD!! If this was a RWD car, you would NEVER see this issue.

 

[timoboy]

Also, any chance my odds of fixing the front will increase with the adjustable arms in the back? Not that I need them at all (and almost hate to mess with a good thing) but If I was to install them, could that change my front characteristics? This is primarily an older female driven van, and when I say a Very slow never reckless or aggressive drive AT ALL I mean it. Clutch on her old car lasted 160k all city miles!

I have friends with tuner evos/s2000's etc who AutoX there rides and get more miles out of a set of tires...

 

[lakersfan1]

Yes pressure kept at max recommended my the tire store (not the sidewall necessarily but they are pretty close), they and the alignment shop told me to do this

You realize most tire store employees are minimum wage douchebags without proper training, right? No passenger tire should be kept near max PSI. The proper PSI inflation level is on the inside driver's door. The only reason you should use a different tire pressure as a baseline is if you change the aspect ratio on your tires.

Once again, have taken to several places to get aligned, last was the best place in town, they are amazingly knowledgeable and we discussed the problem at length, ending up deciding it is a design flaw...that is costing me $350 in new tires every 8-10K! There has to be something that can be done.

So amazingly knowledgable that they didn't recommend a $30 pair of camber bolts to take a couple degrees of camber out !

Man I HATE FWD!! If this was a RWD car, you would NEVER see this issue.

I know. I've driven FWD for over 20 years and I've never, ever had this issue when properly aligned.

 

[timoboy]

Tire pressure is not the issue here, if 40 psi makes them wear out this fast then F this pile of trash van LOL. Believe me I have PLENTY of experience with both FWD and RWD cars and have never heard anything along the line of slightly higher pressure causes tire wear, tell that to some of the 40++ year ASE Certified mechanics I know and they will laugh in your face.Worse ride/handling maybe, but 4-5 psi over stock will not cause excessive tire wear on a normal car.

As far as the camber bolts go, I have tired to find something like that for this car...but from what I can tell they do not exist. If anyone knows of a mazda3/mazda5 camber bolt kit please let me know. That is exactly the type of thing I am looking for. OH and for the FRONT WHEELS. I know there are 1,000,001 rear adjustment kits/etc out there. Front there appears to be nada other than going with racing coil-overs, etc.

I found a set for the protege, the mazda6, the miata, rx8, etc, but dont see anything out there for the 3/5

 

[manualist]

Once again, have taken to several places to get aligned, last was the best place in town, they are amazingly knowledgeable and we discussed the problem at length, ending up deciding it is a design flaw...that is costing me $350 in new tires every 8-10K! There has to be something that can be done.

Man I HATE FWD!! If this was a RWD car, you would NEVER see this issue.

When it comes to car design - suspensions and tires in this case - I don't believe that Mazda's engineers are dumber than you and the alignment shop guy combined. Defects, probably. But not design flaw. And that shop doesn't know what the problem is nor how to fix it. If they're the best shop in town, I'd consider moving.

 

[lakersfan1]

After thinking about how the front suspension goes together, camber bolts wont work in the front. On this car, the strut jams straight into the hub. The bolt only keeps it seated. It doesn't locate it like every other car I've owned. But that only means you have to tackle the camber from the top instead of the bottom. You'd have to get camber plates for the Mazda3. More pricey, but still doable. The nice thing about the 5 is it's vitually the same suspension-wise as the Mazdaspeec3, which is highly autocrossed. Any problem you encounter with your 5's suspension has already been addressed by some weekend racer with a 3.

Still have trouble camber could be so negative on stock suspension as to wear tires out to the core in under 20K without serious toe issues. But if that's true, you could also try some Nitto Neo-Gen tires. They are made for negative-camber alignments so that the inner tread is more durable than the outer tread.

I agree with the above guy that you need to get new service guys if they can't figure out creative fixes for simple stuff.

 

[flcruising]

What does the print-out read for the front?

 

[Sounbwoy]

The fronts will LITERALLY WEAR THE INNER MOST PORTION TO THREADS, while the outside of the front tires remains normal. I have been told that because this is FWD there is no camber adjustment, and the van is exhibiting classic excessive positive camber.

If the INNER portion of the tire is wearing then the car has too much NEGATIVE camber. I'm also interested in seeing what the printout from your alignment shows...
Did you buy it used or new? I'm sure you checked, but just in case you bought it used, has it ever been in an accident? Also do both fronts look the same in terms of the wear?

 

[lakersfan1]

Tire pressure is not the issue here, if 40 psi makes them wear out this fast then F this pile of trash van LOL. Believe me I have PLENTY of experience with both FWD and RWD cars and have never heard anything along the line of slightly higher pressure causes tire wear, tell that to some of the 40++ year ASE Certified mechanics I know and they will laugh in your face.

Oh no! Old guys who never went to college and complain about fuel injection and FWD being complicated are going to laugh at me.

If you have excess camber and you increase tire pressure, you square off the sidewalls, thus pressing the inside corner into the pavement harder. If you reduce the pressure, you will allow the inner sidewall to bow from the increased inside pressure, allowing a slightly flatter contact patch. But that's just common sense. 40++ years ago, I know witchcraft trumped common sense in car repair, though.

 

[thaxman]

Stupid question: have you taken it to MAZDA yet?

If you have excess camber and you increase tire pressure, you square off the sidewalls, thus pressing the inside corner into the pavement harder.

Camber should be visible when viewed from a 3/4 position. I know my 06 rears show some extreme camber, but the fronts are perfectly vertical. I wonder if all these shops aren't correctly adjusting the toe-in, or if the OP had a senior moment (not saying you're old, dude. Anyone can have one of those nowadays thanks to the stresses of modern life) and forgot that the tires were rotated and some 17-y.o. oil monkey didn't notice that the tires that came off the back were almost to steel when they were moved.

 

[mazdadude]

Yes, the early Mazda5's are hellish on inside treads. It does not matter if you rotate or not, the inside tread and shoulder gets eaten up.

One trick you can do is to swap the tire on the rim from front passenger to front driver, this will give you a "new" contact patch, while keeping the tire rotating in the same direction (IMPORTANT).

However this cannot be done on some of the newer tires out there that have an "Asymmetric Tread Patterns" such as the Continental DWS.

It will cost a few dollars to do this on your 2nd rotation, but you will double your tire life.

Here is a link to the "Tire Rack" that gives some info on treads types and rotation possibilities.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=180

 

[thaxman]

agreed - you MUST buy directional or standard tread tires for the 06-07s. Asymmentrical tires will frustrate you to no end, as I have already said some time ago. I think I am close to flipping mine from left to right and vice-versa. I have directional BFG G-Forces and so they must be dismounted and flipped on the wheel to change sides without reversing the wear pattern and causing very poor handling and control in the wet. I really wonder how much of this is caused by refusing to rotate the tires and by driving pattern (note I did not say driving habits)
I also would like to know where the OP is getting his tires, since most up-to-date tire shops will no longer put new tires on the front and leave worn tires in the back. Although I feel it is better to have more tread up front for traction - especially on a fwd vehicle - litigation tends to convince business owners that it is better to have worn tires on the front and new on the rear so that the tires can't cause oversteer and spinout.