Dyno Day

Originally posted by Horn77:
<STRONG>Sorry to get off track here but I think we need to contact Mazda on our findings. I went ahead and typed a letter which I am thinking of sending to Mazdas North America Divion. Now I know it is alittle out there but it is worth a try. Tell me what you thing.

Dear Mazda,

I am writing this letter on behalf of various owners of your 2001 Protg MP3. While doing some research before buying the 2001 Protg MP3, I looked at some very important numbers to me. Mazda claims that the car stock produces 140whp. This is what I thought I bought. But in reality I did not. The reasoning behind this accusation is the Dyno test conducted on a 2001 Mazda MP3, which yielded 114.8 MAX HP with an Injen Cold Air Induction. In actuality the Injen Cold Air Induction added power to the vehicle. Concluding this test that puts the stock MP3 at 110whp (22% Loss). So if the claimed numbers were right I would not have a problem. This brings to mind an interesting question... Did Mazda pull the same scheme with the MP3/Pro 5 vehicle that they did with the Miata, by claiming higher HP numbers than actual? This was found out by a test that Sports Compact Car Magazine conducted and debunked Mazda's Miata power claim. Back to the Dyno Result. Due to mind-boggled results of the MP3 with an Injen Cold Air Intake, we went and conducted another test. This time the MP3 was placed back in the Dyno with the same Injen Cold Air Intake, but with three modifications. Japanese spec Intake and Exhaust cams and a Bosal exhaust. This should have added to the numbers claimed by Mazda. But a disappointment again was achieved, the MP3 wound up topping out at a whopping 120.9 max HP and 118.8 max Torque. So in comparison with the modifications we placed on the MP3 we are still 20whp short of what Mazda claimed. A break down of the modifications was as follows: Injen Intake ($291.00), Japanese Spec Intake Cam ($160.00), Japanese Spec Exhaust Cam ($140.00), Bosal Exhaust ($379.00) and Installation for all ($310.00). TOTAL: $1,400.00. Now I remember reading after the Sports Compact Car that Mazda had to add stuff to increase the whp or refund the money for the car. Now with that in mind lets look at the total number of MP3s in North America. Total: 1500. So the worst-case scenario would be, all 1500 owners wanting a refund at a base price of $18,500.00. This would total $27,750,000.00. Now lets say if Mazda was to purchase the Injen Intake, both Japanese Spec Cams and the Bosal Exhaust. Mazda would still be short of the claimed whp by 20whp and it would cost them a total of $2,100,000.00., plus what ever was needed to increase by 20whp. Now I know every Mazda MP3 owner would be more than happy if Mazda would compensate use with a turbo system to make up for the lost whp. I read about Mazda all the time and I know there is a turbo system being experimented with on the new line of Mazdas due for North America. This would cost Mazda next to nothing, minus installation considering the $27,750,000.00 for a total refund of all the owners of MP3s. Plus this would put the whp well over what the claimed whp was suppose to be. I know the decision is not up to me to make for what Mazda is going to do, but I just wanted to give some input as a Mazda MP3 owner and behalf of many other Mazda MP3 owners.</STRONG>
Click to expand...

i'm sorry, but i can't help laughing after reading this letter.

1 - Mazda claims 140hp from the engine not the wheeles.
2 - unless you have a dyno graph showing that the injen adds horse power, you can't use that reasoning. (ie a before and after graph of stock vs injen equiped)
3 - scc was not the only magazine that printed missing hp claims.
4 - if another test was done with more mods, it should have been done again with a basline run showing stock configuration as well as with all mods done to show that there is a difference. it also should be done on the same day on the same dyno.
5 - why should mazda pay for your modifications? let alone your whole car? seems to me that you are not pleased with the car and the numbers you got on a dyno. was this your first time on a dyno? is this your first car? seems to me that you might want to learn some pysics to understand that mechanical systems have inevitible losses that contribute to reduction in power from the source to the product.

it also seems to me that you are upset with mazda for leaking rumors that the next MP3 will have a turbo on it and you paid too much for your car and didn't get a turbo.

if you send that letter to mazda, i think the most you will get back from them is a statement saying your warranty has been revoked because you modified your car beyond what mazda allows within its terms.

and no i'm not just being a smart-ass, just defending my views. flame on, because i won't be visiting here any more if this is the kind of crap that will keep getting posted.
 
I cannot believe all of the bitching that goes on here.
First thing...

YOU KNEW WHAT YOU BOUGHT!!!

Mazda finally goes out on a limb and tries to make a car that will target the younger crowd, and all you have to do is b**** about it.

Personally, I like my MP3. Would it be fun with 50 more HP, yes of course. But I knew it was underpowered when I got it. And I will live with it.

If I were mazda I would look at these 1500 cars and say that it wasn't worth it because all we did was sold a limited amount of cars to a bunch of people that complain about everything. The squeeks, the radio, the power, etc....

And I would also think twice about making another car like this because of the hassles.

If you want to b**** about defects, fine. But stop bitching about what you knew you bought.

My Point. We all knew what we were buying. If you didn't, then that is your fault not mazdas. If you want 50 more horsepower go buy a WRX and look like the other 50,000 of them out there. Until then, Please stop complaining about every little thing that you don't like about your car.

Tim
 
Hey Nik,
good piont but totaly disregarded.
you dont have a mp3 so what the f are you doing here? glad to hear people like you are NOT post here ahain.
buy a mp3 then you can vent you misplaced feeling on us. other wise just keep on putting down the "es" road Buddy

now with all the gen y and x racers out there mazda and all other car co. are listing the sugestions and coments. so if they are not said they will never be known. send your letter bro. i'm on your side. also pissed off that the 140 hp was not listed a at the crank. it was just listed. we should know this?
i wonder if nik will be back to read this?
what do you guys and girls think?
raerae :D
 
hey Raerae,
yes i did go back to see what you wrote, and if you knew anything, all manufacturers list the power of thier cars at the engine not the wheels. that way they can show bigger numbers to get peoplw to buy them. is it false advertising? i don't think so, becuase they never state that the car puts x amount of power to the road. as far as the miata was concerned, there were legitimate complaints since nothing was changed besides some engine bits and the car still made the same amount of power, not the 15 more that mazda claimed. with the mp3, it does make more than the regular protege, which is what mazda claimed.

and another thing, just because i don't have an mp3 doesn't mean i can't post on the forum. (just because i don't have big boobs, doesn't mean i can't work at hooters.) why did i buy the es? it was $4000 less than an mp3. with that $4000 i can mod my car to handle better, have more power, and still have less money invested than you do. do i care that it doesn't look like all the other protg's out there? no, because since i bought mine back in September, i have seen a total of about 5 protg's on the streets where i live. if you thnk your mp3 is sooooo much better than my es, you must have one small winker you are trying to make up for. maybe you should have bought a WRX. they lose about 30% of the power through the drive train, not the 22% that you seem to be pissed about. i would be exstatic if i had a WRX that only lost 22% in the driveline; there would be nothing that could beat me.

i just truely feel you won't be getting anywhere with sending that letter to mazda, but if that's what you want to do, go right ahead becuase i won't stop you.
 
i thought i told you to get lost.
one more thing, if you add up all the mods done to the mp3 from the es it will go over the 4 grand you are talking about. so mod it up, spend that money. after you get your es up to par(mp3) then post how much you spent.
i think you will be too embarrassed to do so.
remember you brought this on yourself buddy!

whoo hooo i finaly got rated. i bet i know who only gave me 1 star...
:p :p

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: Raerae ]
 
Originally posted by Raerae:
<STRONG>i thought i told you to get lost.
one more thing, if you add up all the mods done to the mp3 from the es it will go over the 4 grand you are talking about. so mod it up, spend that money. after you get your es up to par(mp3) then post how much you spent.
i think you will be too embarrassed to do so.
remember you brought this on yourself buddy!


:p :p</STRONG>
Click to expand...

ok, all the springs, struts, sway bars, muffler, etc to make the suspension the same runs roughly $1500. (if i decide to buy them from my dealer for full price.) that leaves $2500. to get some good tires and rims will run roughly another $1100, which still leaves $1400 to get other stuff. and lets say that i don't want the mazda struts that you have, and i decide to go with the mazdaspeed ones? well, that's only an additional $100 or so? that leaves me with $1000 left over to get a body kit when they come available. seems to me that i made out on the deal. if you want to mod your car, it will only cost you more.

oh, and by the way, i don't think it's up to you to decide who gets to post what where and how.
 
Hey Nik, you are pretty right about this situation and what will happen. Mazda will certainly claim or try to come up with some logical excuse for this mess. It is no use to send this letter.

I'm sorry guys, but Nik has a good point.

oh well, make the best of it. the car is a great car.!!


;)
 
wait what about the int. steering wheel,seats,speakers, head unit. all these things come into play here. dont get me wrong
the es is a good car but it is'nt a mp3. and that was the reason for the purchase.
dont tell me you priced everthing out on the mp3. then made a choice to buy a es and mod it up to a mp3 because you thought it would be cheaper. there is'nt anything wrong with wanting you car to be like ours. when you found out that what you wanted to do wont work out, dont get mad and take it out on good people on this site. deal with it.
i know i do not have the right to kick people off but if i did you would be the first and the last. people here dont put other people ideas (great ideas)down by calling them stupid. you are wrong and you should leave.
p.s. what about install price, and your warrenty buddy. bet you didnt think of that.
 
Originally posted by Mengo:
<STRONG>Hey Nik, you are pretty right about this situation and what will happen. Mazda will certainly claim or try to come up with some logical excuse for this mess. It is no use to send this letter.

I'm sorry guys, but Nik has a good point.

oh well, make the best of it. the car is a great car.!!


;)</STRONG>
Click to expand...

thanks.

and Raerae:
i never said i wanted an MP3 or that i wanted to make my car into an MP3. i just think that i got a better deal on my car than you probably did. if you don't mind, how much DID you pay for your car? oh, and i have cruise control too.

freakwonder:
i read your post, and agree with you. mazda probably didn't pick the lightest wheels they could have, and that will contribute to more losses as the engine has too work harder to get them spinning.
 
19,600
i'm not going to list all the s*** that i got and you didnt.
so you paid 14 and change. and you have a car
with what. if you are not into mods then what are you doing on a mp3 board. it's still under factory warrenty so there is nothing that you would have to fix by yourself that you would need the advice from other car owners.
to me you seems like you like to point your finger and say haha to people who bought a mp3. because you paid 4-5 grand less.
i thought you were leaving? cant now right?
 
Originally posted by Raerae:
<STRONG>19,600
i'm not going to list all the s*** that i got and you didnt.
so you paid 14 and change. and you have a car
with what. if you are not into mods then what are you doing on a mp3 board. it's still under factory warrenty so there is nothing that you would have to fix by yourself that you would need the advice from other car owners.
to me you seems like you like to point your finger and say haha to people who bought a mp3. because you paid 4-5 grand less.
i thought you were leaving? cant now right?</STRONG>
Click to expand...

$19.6? :eek: is that befor taxes?!? wasn't msrp $18.5? man, you go taken. i paid $15 even befor taxes for my es with moon roof, floor mats, and alarm. now i'm GLAD i didn't buy an mp3.

and i surf this board because SOME people are posting things about the mods they do that are compatable with the es model. in case you didn't know, the es and mp3 have the same engine, your just has a different ignition curve for "10 more" hp. every thing that was done to start this thread can be done to my car, but i won't because the yeild doesn't sound like its worth it.
 
it sounds like it comes down to money with you, thats just too sad. i bet you wish you drove a mp3. you said you boght your car in sep. and you are on the board for mod and interchangable parts, well... what have you done latley besides put other peoples idea down. be careful what you say about the how much people payed for the mp3. this is a mp3 board ya know.
cruise controle pfst
sunroof drool (you got me there)
floor mats ther just floor mats
 
and no i'm not just being a smart-ass, just defending my views. flame on, because i won't be visiting here anymore if this is the kind of crap that will keep getting posted.

well..we are still posting this kind of crap
so what you going to do about it?
 
What hell?? This is just becoming a flame war. Who cares either way about who spent what on an ES or an MP3?

So, if you honestly think you stand a chance with the letter, then send it. With the feedback you've gotten you should be able to make an educated decision about it. Maybe make some changes to it to reflect other information that you've gotten.

Personally, I'm still wondering how much dead air is that fender where everyone puts the CAI.
 
Coolhand, keep up the good work man. I hope your able to find something out. I love my car too, more than anything else I've got, and if Mazda was wrong then they should be responsible and offer some kind of reinbursment. But regardless of what happens, I am completly satisfied with my car, and if something like a mistake (lie, accident, whatever) has occured, I still wouldn't return with a shaking fist and demand compensation. Anyway, thats just my ramblings.
Note: Didn't they post those numbers before release, I heard that more modifications were made right before the release...perhaps the number "was" right...just a thought.
 
To all you people that are bitching out there all I was trying to do is help you. BLA BLA BLA. Do I really care if Mazda cuts my warrenty. No. You know why. They cant. The only way then can is if the part had something to do with what ever went wrong. So there. Now as for the power and me not liking my MP3. Yeah right. Like I care. Im putting a turbo system on it anyways. I wouldnt buy anything except Mazda. If I wanted all this power I would have kept my RX7 which would run 11's. Look im in the military and when I get my orders to Japan I will have the AWD MPS series so you all can suck a big fat d@#k. Im not here to bust anybodys balls by anymeans. If you are in this forum you oviously like Mazda so like one another. Thats what it is all about. Later
 
All manufacturers overstate their horsepower ratings or at least rate them from the crank and not the wheel (with the exception of a couple that might understate them). All vehicles lose power through the drivetrain so it should be no surprise that what you see on a dyno is less than what you find in a brochure. I'm almost positive Mazda has a very official document they can show you that proves the 140hp at the crank, that was conducted in a far more scientific environment and procedure than your dyno test. SCC points this stuff out all the time in their tests and usually prints a percentage for powertrain loss. Mazda could think of hundreds of reasons why they shouldn't buy you an aftermarket intake, cams, or a turbo. For sure, they are not financially resposible for your mods. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your efforts at dyno testing to see the effect of mods. Unfortunately, your test doesn't tell us much except for what you car does with the mods on it. It doesn't show us what your car had before the mods so we could see the effect of those mods. Nobody has dynoed an MP3 in stock form. The closest was MP3Ben but he had a MHP CAI on the vehicle. He drew some assumptions from the Pro5 that went before him but it's not exactly comparing apples to apples and MP3Ben seems willing to accept that. You'll notice that SCC does dyno the vehicles before they do anything to them. I would like to see more people dyno their vehicles in stock first, then modded form to see what their mods produce and post them here. That's real data that can be used to make an informed buying decision. I know there are a few dudes here that are very good technically that can possibly find interesting ways to find horsepower with their time at a dyno that might not cost anything except for time and elbow grease. I noticed that the guys doing custom turbo set up haven't dynoed their vehicles in stock form to get a baseline for the dyno runs they will most likely do with the turbos installed. I guess it will be disappointing to find out their dyno runs only produce 170-180 at the wheels. Then they'll have to write to Mazda about the $5k they spent modding their car and how Mazda is now somehow financially resposible for that! (Not that I think any of the apparently smart fellows building a custom turbo setup would do such a thing!) BTW, did you know Mazda is one of the only vehicle manufacturers that supports amatuer racers, including autocrossers, through Mazda Motorsports?
 
Please log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

n3rdgen@CS
    • Love
CorkSport Mazda Showdown
Replies
0
Views
947
n3rdgen@CS
n3rdgen@CS
A
2016 CX-9 Battery replacement -- need to register?
Replies
8
Views
2K
PTguy
P
M
Check engine light, TPMS light flashing and power loss (2016 CX-5)
Replies
2
Views
620
mazda_CX5_
M

Latest posts

Back