Smart City Brake Malfunction - New 2016 CX-5

Haven't had any luck with dealer service department yet (though they are trying), hoping someone here has some ideas:

Purchased new 2016 CX-5 GT AWD w/i-ACTIVESENSE at the end of March, and within a week started receiving the following two error messages on my info panel:
"Smart City Brake Support Malfunction. Forward SCBS Disabled." and
"Smart Brake System Malfunction"

Both messages show up in tandem, never just one or the other, and at seemingly random times. Once I turn the car off, they disappear and then pop up again after a few days or weeks. The dealer asked several questions about weather conditions, time of day, highway vs. city, windshield sensor debris/fog, etc. But the messages have appeared in just about every combination of driving conditions. Dealer kept the car for a couple days, could not recreate the issue or find anyone else with this issue, eventually Mazda told them to replace some ABS part...two days later, message appeared again.

Dealer keeps telling me they need to run diagnostics while the messages are on the screen but given the randomness of the problem, neither I nor they have been able to recreate on demand. Closest thing to a pattern I've recorded is that the error is more likely to set off when driving at slow speed and/or slowly applying the brake; the car usually jerks a bit (which i assume is the SCBS kicking in briefly?) and then the messages appear. For example, once they appeared while in the middle of a U-turn after I was stopped at a red light.

Thanks for your help and suggestions!

Some options:
1) use a video camera (better yet have a passenger use one) when the situation occurs. Cell phone camera or GoPro or something like that to record it happening. You could then use one of those OBDII apps to read the trouble codes as it's occurring and send all that information to the dealer. Of course you'd need to do this under safe conditions.
2) The other option is to just hand the car to the dealer and let them drive around in it until it happens, but I'd bet they're unlikely to do that.
3) Drive around in circles near the dealership until it happens then take the car to the dealer without turning it off. (naughty)

Kinda half joking on that last one. Sorry to hear about these issues with a new car. Electronic gremlins are the worst.

You can get the obd2 adapter for 10 on ebay and code reading app (torque) free.

Srad600 said:

Some options:
1) use a video camera (better yet have a passenger use one) when the situation occurs. Cell phone camera or GoPro or something like that to record it happening. You could then use one of those OBDII apps to read the trouble codes as it's occurring and send all that information to the dealer. Of course you'd need to do this under safe conditions.
2) The other option is to just hand the car to the dealer and let them drive around in it until it happens, but I'd bet they're unlikely to do that.
3) Drive around in circles near the dealership until it happens then take the car to the dealer without turning it off. (naughty)

Kinda half joking on that last one. Sorry to hear about these issues with a new car. Electronic gremlins are the worst.

Click to expand...

1) OBDII w/torque app is good idea, thanks for the suggestion Srad600 and Chris_Top_Her.
2) Agree, this is what the dealer suggested as well. I gave the dealer my car back in April so they could drive it around and try to recreate the issue, but they had no luck...just got back from the dealer this afternoon and they want to try again.
3) Ha...I actually did arrive early and drive the car in an empty lot behind the dealer trying to recreate the situation, but was not successful! That's what they keep asking me to do: "Next time the lights turn on, could you just immediately drive to the nearest dealer and leave the car running?" Not exactly a feasible suggestion, dealer.

In case this helps anyone else, here is what a user on a different forum just replied to me a couple hours ago (I'll run this by my dealer and report back here):

"Having the same issue, although mine came on when starting the car. At the dealer now; left the car running when I arrived so they could see the warning messages. Also had the tire pressure warning light come on at the same time. Will post what they find. There was a software update installed a week or so ago, so now sure if the malfunction might have something to do with the software update...

The service manager was glad that I'd left the car running when, as he was (a) able to see the warning lights on the dash, and (b) was able to run the diagnostics with the car running.

What set off the SCBS malfunction was a malfunction in the tire pressure warning system. There was nothing wrong with the pressures themselves, but the TP warning tripped for some unknown reason, which triggered the SCBS malfunction and disabled the forward SCBS. He reset the tire pressure system, cleaned out the codes and all the lights went back to normal.

He said that if there is an EZpass (toll transponder) located in the upper right corner of where all the lasers/computers/cameras are, the transponder "might" be interfering with the SCBS. There is another SCBS device in the Mazda logo in the front grill; if that gets dirty or something is covering the Mazda logo, that "might" trigger the SCBS to malfunction.

Basically, he didn't know what was going on and hopes it was just the tire pressure issue which dumped the SCBS. He was interested that someone else had had the same problem."

Latest update in case anyone else has this problem: I left my CX-5 with the dealer on 9/2. They ran tests, drove the car for over 100 miles until they recreated the malfunction lights I was having, then determined that the Smart City Brake Support sensor need to be replaced, which they did. They also said they needed to remove the 3rd party remote starter (that they originally recommended/installed when I purchased the car), which has a receiver/antenna on the upper windshield near the sensors, and replace it with the Mazda OEM remote starter. They returned the car to me on 9/14 in the afternoon. After 5mins of driving during the morning of 9/15, the car jerked and the same malfunction lights turned on again! This time, I was able to leave it running and drive straight to the dealership, not that it should have mattered since they already recreated the problem. Service manager said Mazda told him to re-run the same diagnostics again (why?!). Had another long wait and eventually called the District Service Manager to re-iterate my request to have this lemon replaced with a new, properly functioning car. Obviously she would not commit to that, though after 6 months of this I think it's a very reasonable request. So I left the car with them yet again.

9/17: just got a call from a service rep...now they are going to replace three more parts: "rear body control module, radar sensor, sas control module". This is in addition to the SCBS sensor and remote starter earlier this month, and some ABS part the first time I left the car with them in April (6 parts in 6 months). Maybe I'll get the car back next week, maybe it will work.

My wife's suggestion: "Just ask if they'll take this car back and give you a Honda CR-V instead"...maybe she's right

SAMazda said:

My wife's suggestion: "Just ask if they'll take this car back and give you a Honda CR-V instead"...maybe she's right

Click to expand...

This makes no sense. The Honda CR-V is no more reliable than a Mazda CX-5. You could have more serious problems with a CR-V, as it is it just sounds like you have had incompetent technicians trying to diagnose your relatively minor and intermittent issue.

I feel for you and hope this is resolved soon. Maybe you should take it to another dealership and hope they have a better technician (or if your state has a lemon law, stay there until it qualifies for a replacement vehicle).

Keep us in the loop of what happens. I'm a bit worried about the CX-5 we just purchased a few weeks ago that also has that same package. So far so good. Sorry to hear about your situation. I'm sure we all appreciate you documenting all this for us.

It makes me worried as I have all options on my CX-5 and there are more sensors than what I could count with my fingers...

SAMazda said:

Latest update in case anyone else has this problem: I left my CX-5 with the dealer on 9/2. They ran tests, drove the car for over 100 miles until they recreated the malfunction lights I was having, then determined that the Smart City Brake Support sensor need to be replaced, which they did. They returned the car to me on 9/14 in the afternoon. After 5mins of driving during the morning of 9/15, the car jerked and the same malfunction lights turned on again! This time, I was able to leave it running and drive straight to the dealership, not that it should have mattered since they already recreated the problem. Service manager said Mazda told him to re-run the same diagnostics again (why?!). Had another long wait and eventually called the District Service Manager to re-iterate my request to have this lemon replaced with a new, properly functioning car. Obviously she would not commit to that, though after 6 months of this I think it's a very reasonable request. So I left the car with them yet again.

9/17: just got a call from a service rep...now they are going to replace three more parts: "rear body control module, radar sensor, sas control module". This is in addition to the SCBS sensor earlier this month and some ABS part the first time I left the car with them in April. Maybe I'll get the car back next week, maybe it will work.

My wife's suggestion: "Just ask if they'll take this car back and give you a Honda CR-V instead"...maybe she's right

Click to expand...

At this point, you might consider:
1. Contacting you state's attorney general office for advice on how to pursue a lemon law action, if your state has one..
2. Contact any sort of news agency that does consumer advocary/mitigation reporting.

Once you get confirmation or support from either, let your dealer and Mazda know what actions you're will be taking to get resolution...

Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a bit more than idle threats to be taken seriously, and I don't think any dealership would want that kind of publicity you've described here... But make sure you have some indication from one of these types groups that they will champion your cause before you start the threats, since lack of immediate action will only result in the same response, which so far doesn't look promising. Good luck...

MikeM. said:

This makes no sense. The Honda CR-V is no more reliable than a Mazda CX-5. You could have more serious problems with a CR-V, as it is it just sounds like you have had incompetent technicians trying to diagnose your relatively minor and intermittent issue.

I feel for you and hope this is resolved soon. Maybe you should take it to another dealership and hope they have a better technician (or if your state has a lemon law, stay there until it qualifies for a replacement vehicle).

Click to expand...

I agree about the CR-V comment, and have said the same thing. Partly this just illustrates our frustration as first-time Mazda owners, especially since we have had such a positive history with Honda's in our family for many years.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. My dealer said they've already contacted other service depts but nobody has seen this issue (perhaps I will contact them myself), and I'll look into local lemon laws. Hopefully this is an isolated incidence and other owners will not have to worry. I'll keep updating this thread either way.

I understand your frustration with Mazda, and agree that its perfectly natural. My last car was a Lexus, and I had nothing but problems with it for years and years. I know that makes me an outlier case, but it does happen even to the best of brands.

To me, it doesn't matter what the statistics and surveys say about that amazing Lexus reliability because my car had tons of issues. In my head, I know that Lexus still makes great cars .... but in my heart, I'm still sour on the brand.

Hopefully Mazda will get this fixed soon and correctly, and this'll be a brief, unpleasant memory about a car that you love for years.

Electrical issues are a big pain in the ass to figure out sometimes. Give the dealer a chance to make it right. At least they are working with you and not giving you the cold shoulder saying deal with it.

9/25: picked up my CX-5, service manager answered all my questions and they showed me the SCBS in action to ensure it was working.

9/28: driving down the highway, car jerks and the same malfunction warnings turned on again! Unfortunately, the diagnostics and repairs over the past 6 months did not work (note: I edited my previous posts, as I forgot to mention that they also removed the 3rd party remote starter that they originally recommended/installed and replaced it with Mazda OEM remote...so 6 replacement parts in total).

The saga continues, will let you know the final resolution (which at this point better be a new CX-5...or maybe they'll pony up and get me a Volvo XC-60 ).

It sounds like their install of that 3rd party remote start is costing them some serious money.

I doubt Mazda USA covered that!

SAMazda said:

9/25: picked up my CX-5, service manager answered all my questions and they showed me the SCBS in action to ensure it was working.

9/28: driving down the highway, car jerks and the same malfunction warnings turned on again! Unfortunately, the diagnostics and repairs over the past 6 months did not work (note: I edited my previous posts, as I forgot to mention that they also removed the 3rd party remote starter that they originally recommended/installed and replaced it with Mazda OEM remote...so 6 replacement parts in total).

The saga continues, will let you know the final resolution (which at this point better be a new CX-5...or maybe they'll pony up and get me a Volvo XC-60 ).

Click to expand...

Geez. Sounds like a lemon if you have a lemon law - that's three times at least.

raystafarian said:

Geez. Sounds like a lemon if you have a lemon law - that's three times at least.

Click to expand...

I quickly looked into IL Lemon Law thanks to suggestions from forum users. I think here it's 4 repair attempts or 30 days out of commission...so I'm close. But I've been talking to Mazda corporate customer service for weeks now and they seem to be taking this seriously, so hopefully they'll come thru. I'll let everyone know how they resolve the issue.

SAMazda said:

"Smart City Brake Support Malfunction. Forward SCBS Disabled." and
"Smart Brake System Malfunction"

Click to expand...

...and to go full circle (for me) my car came up with this same error this morning. I was sitting in some pretty horrendous traffic and then the dashboard lit up. The message stayed on for my entire drive to work. Fortunately (or not, we will see…) I had an appointment to have my car serviced at the dealer today. So I showed the tech the video that I took of the message and they “are going to look into it”. Curious to see where this goes.

https://vimeo.com/142421461

Also, forgot to add that I did plug in my OBDII reader as this was happening, but it did not find any error codes.


...sent...

16 days later (or 7-months later depending on how you look at it) and we have a resolution: Mazda cannot fix the problems so I am getting a new car tomorrow at no cost, exact same year/trim/accessories/etc plus free 7-yr/100k comprehensive warranty (effective immediately) plus $100 Mazda service credit. That didn't come easy, long story below if interested.

Srad600 said:

...and to go full circle (for me) my car came up with this same error this morning. I was sitting in some pretty horrendous traffic and then the dashboard lit up. The message stayed on for my entire drive to work. Fortunately (or not, we will see…) I had an appointment to have my car serviced at the dealer today. So I showed the tech the video that I took of the message and they “are going to look into it”. Curious to see where this goes.

https://vimeo.com/142421461

Click to expand...

Srad -- For what it's worth, what you are seeing is slightly different from what I was seeing. My car showed the same error message you posted in your video, but after a few seconds it would switch to the second error message "Smart Brake System Malfunction", then alternate back and forth between the two. And sometimes, but not always, I would also get an "AT" transmission error flash on the info screen once before being replaced with the brake malfunction messages and the Tire Pressure warning light would sometimes turn on. So hopefully your issue is resolvable and not the same as mine; it would be a very bad trend if more Mazda owners start seeing this same problem...good luck!
------------------------

So here's what happened: while the car was in for its third repair attempt on 9/15, I had multiple conversations with Mazda Corporate Customer Experience Team (or something like that). I wanted a new car, they offered me a free comprehensive extended warranty 7-yr/100k mile once I got the repaired car back. Only after I asked did they admit that it was actually 7-yrs effective immediately, meaning 4-yrs beyond the standard 3-yr warranty that already came with the car. I explained why I felt that was a start but insufficient given the time/cost/trust/etc i had lost through that point. They said I should take the car back after the service team is done, drive it around for a few weeks and then let them know if I'm comfortable accepting their offer or not, which was a good gesture. To their credit, they did come back and improved their offer to 9-Yr/100K warranty and $2,000 compensation...best-in-class customer service would have avoided any negotiation and given me their best offer from the start, but in the end I thought this was a very solid offer and showed they were serious about making the situation right.

HOWEVER, that deal was contingent on the car being fixed, which as we all now know it wasn't despite all of their assurances to the contrary...so offer off the table. They call to tell me they are going to work with the dealership to get me a new replacement vehicle at no cost (oh..and in the meantime the loaner 2015 GT CX-5 I've got from the dealer dies in my garage for no reason and requires a battery jump stronger than the portable jumper I've got...not a huge deal, but at that point = insult + injury - trust). My obvious response was...and what else? I know this is going to cost Mazda more than they'd like but that shouldn't affect the customer. I provide my reasons to the rep and after a long talk he basically says there's no way Mazda can or will provide anything more than a replacement vehicle, but he'll have one of his superiors call me to tell me that if I'd like (he was polite, just not very helpful). So a couple more days go by and the rep calls back with a manager on the phone, who eventually agrees that something more should be done so he offers me a whopping $100 Mazda credit. I explain that I expected much more given all the costs to me previously discussed, etc...he says he understands which is why he's offering me $100 credit, "enough for a couple free oil changes which is a good deal sir". He asks me how I feel about that deal, I laugh little and say I find it just short of insulting. It's still a relatively calm conversation but starts to get a bit more heated...he keeps referencing how much it will cost Mazda to replace the car until I finally have to say that he/Mazda has to understand that they are in no way doing me a favor as I am familiar with IL State Lemon Law. He still doesn't budge, just wants me to take the deal, and at this point I really have no leverage. So I simply say that it sounds like I'm not getting any other option, and my understanding is that he is part of the Customer Experience team, and that if I take this deal I will be a first-time Mazda owner who has had a poor customer experience. To my surprise, out of the blue he says "sir we'll also give you a 7-yr/100k warranty for your replacement vehicle and the $100 credit"...I said sounds good, please send me the paper work, have a good night! and hang up before he changes his mind. Reasonable offer, though I was still livid that in previous discussions I was told that "no better offer was available" and that I had to negotiate and get worked up for so long when they had a better offer available the entire time...B-/B at best, Mazda Customer Team. It took the dealer over a week before they told me they have my new car available.

SAMazda said:

16 days later (or 7-months later depending on how you look at it) and we have a resolution: Mazda cannot fix the problems so I am getting a new car tomorrow at no cost, exact same year/trim/accessories/etc plus free 7-yr/100k comprehensive warranty (effective immediately) plus $100 Mazda service credit.

Click to expand...

That is an excellent resolution! And I will not minimize the heartache and stress you went through to get there. Just be glad that your state enacted strong consumer protections (lemon law) because, without that leverage, your chances of this resolution are basically zero.

Congratulations!