Winter is here...and my cx5 turbo is now a 2.0!

Damm I am glad I started to go into different forums to research the possible purchase of a 2020 cx5 turbo. This problem 100% will steer me away from the car. It sucks as I like it looks and the features that the car has.

I live in Calgary, Canada and we get a lot of days in the winter where the weather is below -10c, we are right next to the rocky mountains and are at higher elevations. I have multiple highway on ramps that go up hill on my commute and stop signs that I have to stop at to cross busy roads.

I really need the weather to get cold again so I can take one for a test drive again, looks like -11c high on Saturday with snow should be good weather for a test drive.
 
Damm I am glad I started to go into different forums to research the possible purchase of a 2020 cx5 turbo. This problem 100% will steer me away from the car. It sucks as I like it looks and the features that the car has.

I live in Calgary, Canada and we get a lot of days in the winter where the weather is below -10c, we are right next to the rocky mountains and are at higher elevations. I have multiple highway on ramps that go up hill on my commute and stop signs that I have to stop at to cross busy roads.

I really need the weather to get cold again so I can take one for a test drive again, looks like -11c high on Saturday with snow should be good weather for a test drive.
Please report back after you do. I’m Interested if this also impacts the 2020s. Would love to hear that it doesn’t to stay somewhat optimistic that Mazda can improve the tune on the 19s.
 
Just so I understand what you're saying, 'cause I'm not a mechanic and don't know what "heat soak" is, let me restate why I said what I said for your response:

-The going opinion is that the ECU chokes back the turbo when it's cold outside
--The state of "cold outside" is determined by the temps seen by sensors

-2001birdowner observed that his turbo choked back while driving around in the cold
-2001birdowner observed that his turbo came back after being parked for a few minutes

My hypothesis is:
-While in motion, the airflow causes the sensors to [accurately] see "cold"
--The turbo is choked back
-When stationary after driving, the radiant heat causes sensors to see "warm"
--The turbo operates normally for a period of time, until the sensors see "cold" again
This is what I’m thinking. Really disappointing to have this occur with such warm(for my area in winter)conditions.
 
Will do, right now I have it narrowed it down to a new OBXT or a CX5 Turbo, if we didn't just have a kid or planing on having 1 more I would have stuck to something smaller. I also wish the lake close by that freezes over was still available for use, but we lost access to it. We had winter driving schools on it and it was a blast to go on one section full sideways at 80km/h doing a full drift following the high speed course they had setup. It would have been a awesome place to test the car.
 

Avoidin Deer

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Central Virginia
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2019 CX-5 Reserve
That does sound possible.
Add it to the list, huh?

And on the flip side, if there's a genuine risk in running the turbo "at full capacity" in cold weather, then this unintended bypass of the system is not a good thing. That's what I thought you might be alluding to.
 

Avoidin Deer

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This is what I’m thinking. Really disappointing to have this occur with such warm(for my area in winter)conditions.
Truly.

31° is not all that cold. You've seen that the choke-back threshold observed by others is over 10° below that. I don't know that anyone else has seen this at 31°.
 
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CX5 GT-R
Truly.

31° is not all that cold. You've seen that the choke-back threshold observed by others is over 10° below that. I don't know that anyone else has seen this at 31°.
I havent, and not in 3rd gear either as noted. I dead paced a BMW x1 or x3 (dark), up to 115ish when I let off from a roll. This honestly made me feel a lot better, as the gearing in this vehicle makes 3rd gear a legit proposition from relatively low speeds.
 
Truly.

31° is not all that cold. You've seen that the choke-back threshold observed by others is over 10° below that. I don't know that anyone else has seen this at 31°.
I’ve only experienced the issue with temps that warm after the vehicle was at highway speeds (60+mph) for at least 5 miles or so.

I’m it sure anyone has tested that exact scenario.
 

Avoidin Deer

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I havent, and not in 3rd gear either as noted. I dead paced a BMW x1 or x3 (dark), up to 115ish when I let off from a roll. This honestly made me feel a lot better, as the gearing in this vehicle makes 3rd gear a legit proposition from relatively low speeds.
Just to add some chit-chat data to that observation (because I love winding this car out in 3rd gear...it shoves me back in the seat and makes my mileage suck):

Transmission gearing.png
 
Did the test drive, and it was difficult to test the exact conditions. It snowed a lot more than I hoped, but the the demo did have snow tires and I did get the car up to temp. I'll have to compare it again with dry and warmer conditions. But it sure accelerated better than the 2020 Rav 4 trail that I test drove on Friday in clear, dry conditions. Now that car was a bad driving experience, I hated it after 2 blocks.

On the bright side the dealer ship is about 7 min away from my house, there is lots of hills in the area and I live on a hill. I got to try it around the 2 lane traffic circle that was a bit slick as well as up my back ally that is covered with a lot of ice and snow. It drove wonderfully and handled the conditions really well, I drove the same route to the dealership in my 09 Impreza, though with worn winters. Hopefully there was be cold weather at least one more time this year without it snowing, I will be doing another test drive for sure but with the wife driving and with our baby and his car seat.
 
Did the test drive, and it was difficult to test the exact conditions. It snowed a lot more than I hoped, but the the demo did have snow tires and I did get the car up to temp. I'll have to compare it again with dry and warmer conditions. But it sure accelerated better than the 2020 Rav 4 trail that I test drove on Friday in clear, dry conditions. Now that car was a bad driving experience, I hated it after 2 blocks.

On the bright side the dealer ship is about 7 min away from my house, there is lots of hills in the area and I live on a hill. I got to try it around the 2 lane traffic circle that was a bit slick as well as up my back ally that is covered with a lot of ice and snow. It drove wonderfully and handled the conditions really well, I drove the same route to the dealership in my 09 Impreza, though with worn winters. Hopefully there was be cold weather at least one more time this year without it snowing, I will be doing another test drive for sure but with the wife driving and with our baby and his car seat.
What was the temp? I find it’s hard to even break the front wheels loose in snow when it’a not building boost. I run snow tires in the winter.
 

sm1ke

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Finally got some feedback from a Mazda6 2.5T owner..

I read that CX-5 thread. Hmm.

I have a Canadian-spec Titanium 2019 Mazda6 GS-L turbo, and my complaint is the lousy pace of the slow-warming up engine and thus heater in cold weather here in Nova Scotia. Wasn't expecting that in a modern car.

However, and to the point, no, I haven't experienced power loss even at -17C as the driver's side window and two others remained stuck closed after an hour's running. It was following a slight slushy snowfall the day before which then froze hard overnight, but was barely enough to even see. And not enough to try to scrape/chip off or face damaging the trim trying. And the roads were clear and dry that morning, to compound my annoyance! Even at only -5C it takes a good eight to ten miles to get up to normal temperature, and longer if you have the fan set high to try to capture some defrost heat.

I thrashed the beast to warm it up once it got past 50C and finally got it to read about its normal 98C on the temp gauge. No luck on the stuck windows - had to wait for the outside temperature to moderate. Worst car at that in my past forty years of new car purchasing. But no lack of power at any time, perhaps the opposite.

I have V-rated snow tires on Mazda steel rims, so an occasional unlawful blast to high velocity on lightly travelled four lane rural highways is fun. On the normal two-laners in my slightly rural area, my major hassle is the other slowpokes because the car has a natural tendency to waft along at well over the posted speed limits on very light throttle. Mostly, I like the car very much, and especially the way the transmission shifts. The accelerator pedal throttle-opening law could do with slowing down to allow finer control at normal speeds. The Sport setting is thus essentially useless by being even more sensitive. Higher speed stability is not great when changing lanes over worn-down truck-rutted paved roads - there's a distinct wobble at the front on either sets of tires that sometimes occurs unexpectedly. Once at only about 100 km/h really bothered me as I thought the car was out of control, so it's not perfect by any means. That wobble was an attention-grabber, and it occurred after I had checked tire pressures - they're still fine - I bought TPMS for the winter wheels and carry a tire gauge and pump. I'm what used to be called an enthusiast.

Like I said, poor heater, and the electric seat warmers are pretty sketchy as well. The HVAC is my main disappointment with the car. Since the car has shown zero assembly faults and not one single rattle, I assume the heater is normal, especially after talking to other owners in the waiting room while I got an oil change at the dealer. SkyActiv Mazdas are cold-blooded beasts even in normally-aspirated trim, apparently. Mileage is excellent compared to my traded-in Subie Legacy turbo in normal local driving (9 to 10 versus 11.5 to as much as 13) but identical on long highway trips at 7.8l/100km.

The engine is highly consistent for me, and capable of memorable torque steer with a prod to half throttle if the car isn't pointed straight ahead. Car overtaking on secondary roads car can thus be a bit dicey unless you cool it -- the right front tire will spin going over the painted centreline under boost and the steering goes numb! You have to be awake driving this car sportily.

Full accelerator pedal makes almost no extra difference over halfway. I even found that starting out in second, snow mode, caused the OEM tires to still chirp and minorly squeal all the way up from rest to perhaps 40 klicks at full whack on dry roads last fall. Low gear under boost from rest is a tire roastfest with howling front tires. I use premium gas exclusively - it's only 9 cents/litre more in NS due to our price controls for the last 15 years.

Perhaps premium's why it's a bit lively, I do not know. Three different test drives before purchase did not hint at the power, because after AWD, I especially tried full throttle from rest to see the reaction. Compared to what mine is like after running in, the test cars were dullards, presumably because of regular gas. I would likely have been more circumspect in my purchase if the test cars had been as wild, but I loved the comfy fit and finish, steering linearity, ride and quiet easy cruisin'. Still do. The engine is a bit too loudly raspy for me under throttle and not anywhere near as smooth as the old Subie flat four - the Mazda is an obvious big four and a bit Harley-like under throttle. If Subaru hadn't turned into a big doggy-show wobblefest with CVT, and still made the competent GT, I'd have bought again - it was a better car than the 6. But for reasonable money, there's nothing comparable to the old LGT, and SUVs? You can keep 'em. My brother has a 2014 CX-5. Meh at best for me. Its reliability has been stellar though, but I cannot stand the front seats.

The Toyo snow tires on my 6 are actually better steerers and no more prone to losing traction on dry roads than the OEM all seasons. In snow and under (very) light throttle, the tires have impressive traction and the car is stable. The TC light comes on very rarely even when you sense a bit of wheelspin and never in reverse on my icy uphill driveway when spinning grandly, so I wonder what its calibration is -- probably pretty loose because of the FWD and expected wheelspin with all that instant shove from the turbo. I keep LKAS off permanently - no ghosts in the steering for me, thanks all the same.

Cannot imagine what is going on with the CX-5 turbo's temperature sensitivity if it's not a calibration issue, and am a mechanical engineer with some minor clue. A mystery otherwise. Although, has anyone looked to see if the intercooler connections are different on the CX-5 compared to the 6? Early Legacy GT's often leaked at the connection to the intake manifold, and that caused power loss sometimes depending on how the boost grew. Solution was to make sure the large diameter hose clamps were, in fact, very tight.

Joined up just to tell you all that! First and foremost, this Mazda6 turbo needs AWD, presuming Mazda can handle the calibration, which it seems they may not based on those CX-5 results. For the money, the 6 GS-L turbo is a steal for such a well-manufactured item. It has its quirks -- you just have to learn them.
 
Finally got some feedback from a Mazda6 2.5T owner..
Thanks for sharing. Quite the post. Just doesn’t make any sense that the tune would be so different on the cx5. If anything, one would think they would allow it to make more power considering its AWD.
 
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2003 Protege DX 5MT
Does the CX-5 have any kind of butterflies in the intake manifold for emissions during cold start or cold operation? I know my protege has VTCS variable tumble control butterflies right before intake manifold joins engine block. They are for cold temp emissions
 
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2019 CX-5 GT 184 2.2 twin turbodiesel auto - Sonic Silver
I don't understand what they did to the Gen 2 seats. My Gen 1 is comfortable, but 20 minutes in a loaner 2019 GT had the back of my legs hurting. They should figure out their seats.
I’ve just traded my CX5 for a Lexus for just the same reason. After an hour my butt cheeks are numb and it’s quite skinny so I don’t know how bigger folk manage at all. It’s such a shame because I think otherwise it’s superb.
 
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CX5 GT-R
I’ve just traded my CX5 for a Lexus for just the same reason. After an hour my butt cheeks are numb and it’s quite skinny so I don’t know how bigger folk manage at all. It’s such a shame because I think otherwise it’s superb.
I'm 5'10.75" and 205#. I have had no issues. I am also neurotic about adjusting my seat for a very well distributed weight sensation. My arse is not the only part of my anatomy bearing weight at all.
 

sm1ke

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Thanks for sharing. Quite the post. Just doesn’t make any sense that the tune would be so different on the cx5. If anything, one would think they would allow it to make more power considering its AWD.

Agreed. This seems to support the idea that this isn't really a case of the traction control system pulling power. Given that the Mazda6 is a bit lighter and FWD only, if this was a traction "quirk", then what's happening with the CX-5 would also be happening (or even be more pronounced) in the 6. It also seems like this may not be overboost protection either. To me, it seems like the most plausible theory now is the engine mount vibration messing with the knock sensor, but even that is hard to believe as so many have stated that the issue is there at 19F and gone at 21F. I suppose it could also be due to a calibration error in one of (or all of) the sensors related to the AWD system as someone (Jeff F I think?) had mentioned recently.

Does the CX-5 have any kind of butterflies in the intake manifold for emissions during cold start or cold operation? I know my protege has VTCS variable tumble control butterflies right before intake manifold joins engine block. They are for cold temp emissions

This I am unsure of. I have a few PDFs I saved to my computer when someone posted them (apologies, I don't remember who I got them from). I don't have time to go through them completely, but there is a lot of info here. I attached a basic outline that describes the 2.5T engine's features. This link should have a bunch of PDFs related to the engine (including the Engine Workshop Manual for the 2.5T, which was too large to attach here).
 

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I called the dealer where I bought mine from in NH before all this picked up momentum, they haven’t had any reports of this. They were super nice and said to bring it in next winter.

I have an email drafted for Mazda NA. I’ll wait for things to normalize before sending. Much more important thing to be concerned about these days.
 

Avoidin Deer

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I have an email drafted for Mazda NA. I’ll wait for things to normalize before sending. Much more important thing to be concerned about these days.
I took my car in for service the 10th of this month, and to issue a warranty claim for a seat problem.

There's been no response. I spoke with the dealer today. He says that Mazda Customer Service has got a skeleton crew. I basically told him the same thing you said: Much more important things to be concerned about these days.

You're wise to wait.
 

ColoradoDriver

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I’ve just traded my CX5 for a Lexus for just the same reason. After an hour my butt cheeks are numb and it’s quite skinny so I don’t know how bigger folk manage at all. It’s such a shame because I think otherwise it’s superb.

How are you liking the new car? I suppose probably not driving much right now, I know I haven't been. :(

I'm 5'10.75" and 205#. I have had no issues. I am also neurotic about adjusting my seat for a very well distributed weight sensation. My arse is not the only part of my anatomy bearing weight at all.

Trust me, I do the same thing where I very meticulously adjust the seat for weight distribution and comfort and that 2019 GT was uncomfortable.
 
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