CX-9 vs Competitors
- Thread starter Poppy D
- Start date
Poppy D-
Not sure what your prior experience with Audi or "Ze Germans" has been, but if reliability is anywhere in the Top 5 of your "gotta' have" list, you may wanna' rethink Audi. Don't get me wrong; they're fantastic vehicles, but sadly they have gone the way of pretty much ALL of the true luxury brands in the sense that they've been designed to last until the base warranty has expired.
Just my two cents....
Tim
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
Hi Tim,
You are right about Audi reliability, as a general rule. I also think its reliablity is suspect, but I think our A4 is probably the execption. We have a 6 year old Audi A4 with a 6sp manual that my wife drives. It has about 100k miles and knock on wood it has been very reliable. Although, there was one recall for a fan solenoid, which we waited 4 months for a part to come in from Germany. The dealer said don't park the car in the garage because it could catch fire. Now that's comforting. Our positive overall reliability experience may be because it has a manual transmission or maybe because I do all maintenance myself or maybe its just dumb luck. I'm betting on dumb luck. However, I don't want to jinx myself. From a maintenance perspective, other than oil changes, I've only replaced the factory brakes at 26K, replaced the Pirelli factory tires (which were disappointing tires) with new Michelin tires at 30K and new battery at 50k. The battery is located in the trunk under the spare tire and weighs approx. 70 pounds. Its one of those AGM batteries and its a big battery. I just about got a hernia lifting picking it up from Advance Auto putting it into my Equinox to get it home.
Your are right about Audis, they do not have a stellar reliability record. I was reflecting back about the "German Engineering" sales slogan. From an engineering perspective, I don't see how Audis are significantly different than any other car. The one thing I noticed is they use more bolts to hold parts to the vehicle. For example, the brake calipers have twice as many bolts as my Equinox. Not sure where they think the calipers were going to go, they don't just fall off. And to top it off they were all different sizes 17 mm, 15 mm etc. What I can say from my A4 personal driving experience is that it doesn't handle like a sports car and doesn't track straight ... I'm constantly correcting ... dealer said that's normal... other Audi A4 owners, including my wife, said they don't notice it, hummm... its probably me being nitpicky.
On the upside, that little car is comfortable, assuming your aren't a very large person, gets over 30 mpg on the highway and the tubro 4 with the 6sp is spirited and moves out very quickly. Interior is very well appointed with quality materials. The AWD system is the best I have ever driven, no torque steer and plows through deep snow with no problem. Its AWD is much better than our Equinox. If this vehicle had more ground clearance I'd have no quams taking it offroad. Anyway, my wife loves the car ... so if she's happy, I'm happy.
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
The white CX9 is exactly what we want. Looks so, so pretty. Really no comparison in the looks dept to the Highlander ... but one member put, when you are driving you don't see the outside. Well, I still see it in my head.
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Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
Thank you for the heads up on that pricing forum. I did find that there are regional pricing differences. For example, I noticed that the discounts were much higher than here in Central New York. But Florida dealers did seem to have higher (like $700) "document fees." Not sure what "document fees" even means. Are they refering to title and registration and plates.
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
Thanks Buster1, Your comparison summary of the vehicles you assessed is very helpful. Comparing your CX9 to your Tesla is a great testament to the CX9, that is one high standard.
It seems like the owners of the older Highlanders really love them, from what I am learning from you and others is that the Highlander's quality has slipped in the last couple of years. As you may remember the Highlander was on my short list. I was thinking about the Limited since it was the first trim to offer a heated steering wheel. I'm now becoming a little leary of the Highlander.
As far as the '21Santa Fe, I've only read about them and their Kia cousin, the Sorento. But being new and no track record (and not being an early adopter) I'd just as soon wait 3 to 5 years to see if there is a good reliability track record. The same goes for their big brothers, Telluride/Palisade. Inspite of rave reviews, I'm content to wait, time has a way of sorting it out.
Lastly, thank you for the tip using a decibel meter... very good idea. I'm going to let the sales person watch me and see the look on my face when I wrinkle my nose.
When I get home from the test drive I'll be sure to post my impressions. Thanks again,
Poppy D
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- Canada
Definitely a good idea to clarify what is included in the "fees". The CX-5 pricing thread is more active as the CX-5 is Mazda's #1 seller, and one NYC-based new owner in that thread stated that they paid a doc fee of $75, which seems low considering I've seen doc fees as high as $600 from price breakdowns in other states. I believe the doc fee might vary from dealer to dealer in NY. Hopefully other NYC-based members can pop in and confirm.
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
I think you are right. I suspect the document fees vary from dealer to dealer. The $75 seems reasoable for getting the title and transferring a registration from trade in car to new car. The $700 fee that some dealers in Florida charge seems like a way for making a little more profit. I'll learn more on Monday when we talk to the local Mazda dealer.
Look up NY Motor Dealer Regulations 78.19(2). The fee for the dealership to process the paperwork is a maximum of $75. Of course the buyer must pay all state taxes & fees. Most states have their own doc fee max--my state says a doc is optional but limited at $150. Florida may not have a max, 'cuz freedom. Make your deal, then look at every extra charge. Point to charges like the doc fee and say, "I'm not paying that." That's part of the dealership overhead cost.
I think this guy has a good group of youtube videos about car buying: https://www.youtube.com/c/KevinHunter/videos
Pop quiz: Which person at the dealership brings in the most profit for the owner?
....The so-called finance manager. All the extra fees he tacks on the contract and all the extra services and so-called warranties he sells (all overpriced and/or unneeded) pack a huge profit. Some of these guys are so sleazy that the total at the bottom of the contract is magically higher than what they actually total. Check every number on the contract. Challenge every charge. Remember--you want to buy a car. They need to sell cars. Needs trump wants. Threaten to walk out. For real. They'll get the message. If they don't sell cars, they don't get paid.
I think this guy has a good group of youtube videos about car buying: https://www.youtube.com/c/KevinHunter/videos
Pop quiz: Which person at the dealership brings in the most profit for the owner?
....The so-called finance manager. All the extra fees he tacks on the contract and all the extra services and so-called warranties he sells (all overpriced and/or unneeded) pack a huge profit. Some of these guys are so sleazy that the total at the bottom of the contract is magically higher than what they actually total. Check every number on the contract. Challenge every charge. Remember--you want to buy a car. They need to sell cars. Needs trump wants. Threaten to walk out. For real. They'll get the message. If they don't sell cars, they don't get paid.
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
Big thank you on the decibel meter app. I installed the app on my phone to check the sound volume in my Equinox ... its a whopping average 82 decibels. Hey, who knew it was that loud. So Monday I plan to use the app on our test drives. Thanks again.
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
Hi PTguy, Thanks for the good input. I'll make sure I get an explanation for each charge ... to me there shouldn't be many. Even though I bought a fair number of new cars I don't think I ever got a great deal. For once, I love to get a great deal. However, I am prepared to walk. I guess we'll see how hungry they are.
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
As the members in this forum know I'm a Mazda novice. So I have been seeking input from the members here but also from other sources. I mentioned in an earlier post that I have two brothers that run auto repair busineses, so I called my brother Richie today to ask the following question: "How many turbo engines come into the shop where the turbo needs repairs?" My brother replied, "hardly any" so I followed up with "how many Mazdas come in the shop for repairs? Richie replied, " rarely ever see one." Since this is only one data point you should use your judgment as to what his comments are worth. I'm sure others may have different experiences with their turbo.
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- Ft Worth
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- 2021 CX9 Signature
Cool. We tried to make all our tests the same, to rule out variables... science and stuff. Radio off, cruise at 70mph, fan/HVAC off, and of course no talking. Whoever was not driving would hold the phone at a rough midpoint in the cabin, maybe near the gear shifter, and take some samples. Nerds... I know.
One salesman who rode along said “that was interesting, I’ve never seen anyone do that before!” PRO TIP: then mention that this was the loudest measurement you’ve taken, and look kinda concerned. You want to plant the seed of doubt early and often with the salesperson.
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
That is a great idea. Its good to keep the sales person off balance. I really, really want a great deal.
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
Just getting to post one, thanks for the reminder.
Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
My appologies this posting is way too long! As I have posted last week, I planned to test drive a CX9 and a Highlander today. Well, I did and the following are mine and my wife's perceptions and experience with each vehicle and each dealer. I want give a disclaimer that these comments may not align with what others may think about these two vehicles and they may have different expeiences with their CX9 or Highlander and their respective dealers. Here we go:
White 2021 Mazda Touring with Touring Premium Package:
1. When we showed up at the dealers there was a little mix up in schedulling where the sales person we were to see was double-booked, but they quickly handed us off to another sales person who was very capable and quite helpful and friendly. I personally think we ended up with a better salesperson. She has been selling Mazdas at this dealership for 6 years. +1
2. We test drove a Grand Touring, but it wasn't equiped with a heated steering wheel which they told us in advance. They knew I wasn't going to buy this particular car. So not a big deal. The sales person handed us the keys and said "take it as long as you want it has a fuel tank of gas." So we did.
3. Interior - Beauifully appointed with leather seating, steering wheel shift knob, lots of soft surfaces. Controls were easy to find and use, I like the control layout, everything was where I expeceted to be. The backup camera was high resolution and was equiped with sensors indicating I was too close to the car behind me. Seats were comfortable and had plenty of adjustments and not cramped as some others have mentioned. My wife said the passenger seats were just right for her. (I'm 5'8" and my wife is 5'4") I asked her if she was cramped. She said that the seats were great. She did complain that the Highlander seats cut into her thighs which I'll cover later. The 3rd row is difficult for me and my wife to get into but once there we decided we wouldn't want to ride there for very long, but good enough for the grand kids, but the Highlander wasn't any better. +1
4. Exterior - Not much to say here, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the CX9 is very attractive and I really like it ... but beautiful? ... I say this because I reserve "beautiful" for cars like the Corvette. +1
5. Handling - We drove the car for about 30 minutes in the city and on the highway. Very comfortable and quiet ride. I used the Decibel Meter to record the noise level. The car is very quiet and serene. The CX9 handles very well, there is good road feel through the steering wheel, not numb as found on the Highlander. I took a very sharp curve on the highway entrance ramp faster than I would normally, it took the curve with little-to-no body roll, no lean, now this put a smile on me face. Once on the highway I started to drift out of my lane and the lane assist vibrated, nudged the steering wheel and flashed an icon. It wasn't alarming or startling. I really liked that these features aren't overwhelming. Overall the CX9's sure-footed handling gave the feeling of driving confidence. +1
6. Summary - The CX9 has excellent fit of finish, handles better than the Highlander, has just about the same amount of room inside (inspite of what the spec sheets may indicate) We couldn't tell the difference and we drove them back-to-back. We tried keeping an open mind but so much of this is subjective ... but we like what we saw and experienced.
7. Pricing - So when we visit a dealer we are fully prepared to buy. The Mazda dealer offered us $6,725 for or 8 year old Chevy Equinox (that is showing signs of rust), that was about $1,000 below the Kelly Blue Book trade in value. They presented 2 offers for a 2021 Grand Touring MSRP of $45,600 Grand Touring: 1. discount of $500 and 0% financing for 60 months. 2. discount of $3,000 but finance thru Mazda's prefered bank at 4.9%. This is the part of the visit that was most disappointing. I was hoping for a bigger discount and not tied to financing. So here's what 0% means to me. If I borrow from my credit union at 3% for every $10,000 0% saves me $781. So let's say I take the 0% for a $20,000 loan, I basically get the $500 discount plus the interest savings of $1,562 because of the 0% for a total of $2,062. Just seems to me they are not motivated. Looking for some advice here. -1
2021 Highlander XSE
1. We showed up at the dealer and they handed us of to a nice yound man with 4 weeks of sales experience. He kept having to see the manager for every question he couldn't answer, which was many. It was pretty confusing and disappointing. I'm sure this is an anomoly and most people get more experienced sales people. -1
2. I'll sumarize, since this post is way too long. The XSE didn't have a heated steering wheel either. The XSE is supposed to be the sporter model and it handeled ok, but not as good as the CX9. The steering was very light, feeling almost numb, no road feel. The transmission kept hunting for the right gear, it was anoying for a new car. It was most pronounced slowing down then speeding up, you know like you do when slowing down for traffic signal, then the light turns green and you accelerate. The CX9 did not do this. There was a loud wind noise coming from the drivers window/door. I kept trying to close the driver's window, thinking the window was open a crack. It was very pronounced at speeds over 50. The automatic rear hatch door would not automatically open, the sales person had to force it open. My wife found the front seats uncomfortable (I didn't) and the 3rd row seats will more uncomfortable than the CX9, not sure why, but seems that they were closer to the floor. Perception or really? I did think that the graphics on the dashboard were more complete and crisper. especially the traffic sign recognition. I'm sure there a few things I left out.
Poppy D
White 2021 Mazda Touring with Touring Premium Package:
1. When we showed up at the dealers there was a little mix up in schedulling where the sales person we were to see was double-booked, but they quickly handed us off to another sales person who was very capable and quite helpful and friendly. I personally think we ended up with a better salesperson. She has been selling Mazdas at this dealership for 6 years. +1
2. We test drove a Grand Touring, but it wasn't equiped with a heated steering wheel which they told us in advance. They knew I wasn't going to buy this particular car. So not a big deal. The sales person handed us the keys and said "take it as long as you want it has a fuel tank of gas." So we did.
3. Interior - Beauifully appointed with leather seating, steering wheel shift knob, lots of soft surfaces. Controls were easy to find and use, I like the control layout, everything was where I expeceted to be. The backup camera was high resolution and was equiped with sensors indicating I was too close to the car behind me. Seats were comfortable and had plenty of adjustments and not cramped as some others have mentioned. My wife said the passenger seats were just right for her. (I'm 5'8" and my wife is 5'4") I asked her if she was cramped. She said that the seats were great. She did complain that the Highlander seats cut into her thighs which I'll cover later. The 3rd row is difficult for me and my wife to get into but once there we decided we wouldn't want to ride there for very long, but good enough for the grand kids, but the Highlander wasn't any better. +1
4. Exterior - Not much to say here, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the CX9 is very attractive and I really like it ... but beautiful? ... I say this because I reserve "beautiful" for cars like the Corvette. +1
5. Handling - We drove the car for about 30 minutes in the city and on the highway. Very comfortable and quiet ride. I used the Decibel Meter to record the noise level. The car is very quiet and serene. The CX9 handles very well, there is good road feel through the steering wheel, not numb as found on the Highlander. I took a very sharp curve on the highway entrance ramp faster than I would normally, it took the curve with little-to-no body roll, no lean, now this put a smile on me face. Once on the highway I started to drift out of my lane and the lane assist vibrated, nudged the steering wheel and flashed an icon. It wasn't alarming or startling. I really liked that these features aren't overwhelming. Overall the CX9's sure-footed handling gave the feeling of driving confidence. +1
6. Summary - The CX9 has excellent fit of finish, handles better than the Highlander, has just about the same amount of room inside (inspite of what the spec sheets may indicate) We couldn't tell the difference and we drove them back-to-back. We tried keeping an open mind but so much of this is subjective ... but we like what we saw and experienced.
7. Pricing - So when we visit a dealer we are fully prepared to buy. The Mazda dealer offered us $6,725 for or 8 year old Chevy Equinox (that is showing signs of rust), that was about $1,000 below the Kelly Blue Book trade in value. They presented 2 offers for a 2021 Grand Touring MSRP of $45,600 Grand Touring: 1. discount of $500 and 0% financing for 60 months. 2. discount of $3,000 but finance thru Mazda's prefered bank at 4.9%. This is the part of the visit that was most disappointing. I was hoping for a bigger discount and not tied to financing. So here's what 0% means to me. If I borrow from my credit union at 3% for every $10,000 0% saves me $781. So let's say I take the 0% for a $20,000 loan, I basically get the $500 discount plus the interest savings of $1,562 because of the 0% for a total of $2,062. Just seems to me they are not motivated. Looking for some advice here. -1
2021 Highlander XSE
1. We showed up at the dealer and they handed us of to a nice yound man with 4 weeks of sales experience. He kept having to see the manager for every question he couldn't answer, which was many. It was pretty confusing and disappointing. I'm sure this is an anomoly and most people get more experienced sales people. -1
2. I'll sumarize, since this post is way too long. The XSE didn't have a heated steering wheel either. The XSE is supposed to be the sporter model and it handeled ok, but not as good as the CX9. The steering was very light, feeling almost numb, no road feel. The transmission kept hunting for the right gear, it was anoying for a new car. It was most pronounced slowing down then speeding up, you know like you do when slowing down for traffic signal, then the light turns green and you accelerate. The CX9 did not do this. There was a loud wind noise coming from the drivers window/door. I kept trying to close the driver's window, thinking the window was open a crack. It was very pronounced at speeds over 50. The automatic rear hatch door would not automatically open, the sales person had to force it open. My wife found the front seats uncomfortable (I didn't) and the 3rd row seats will more uncomfortable than the CX9, not sure why, but seems that they were closer to the floor. Perception or really? I did think that the graphics on the dashboard were more complete and crisper. especially the traffic sign recognition. I'm sure there a few things I left out.
Poppy D
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- 2024 CX90 PHEV Premium Plus
@Poppy D .... thanks for sharing your impressions. Overall it sounds like you are pretty much on the same page as everyone else who likes Mazda. Overall, it’s a great package from handling to comfort the features.
FYI - you said you drove a GT? I have a 2021 GT and it *does* have a heated steering well. The button is in the center console in the top left corner above the heated and ventilated seat buttons.
The best advice I can suggest is get quotes from multiple dealers! Some are more willing to negotiate than others and they each also may have access to different financial channels as well. Ideally, email them and do all of your negotiations before you even walk into the show room.
As an example, I recently leased my CX-9. Three dealers insisted that their best price was a few thousand down and over $500 a month. Two dealers offered first month payment down and $430 a month. Quite a difference.
Before you stress over what a good price is, let the dealers battle for your business first and that will give you a good feel for what your options might be.
FYI - you said you drove a GT? I have a 2021 GT and it *does* have a heated steering well. The button is in the center console in the top left corner above the heated and ventilated seat buttons.
The best advice I can suggest is get quotes from multiple dealers! Some are more willing to negotiate than others and they each also may have access to different financial channels as well. Ideally, email them and do all of your negotiations before you even walk into the show room.
As an example, I recently leased my CX-9. Three dealers insisted that their best price was a few thousand down and over $500 a month. Two dealers offered first month payment down and $430 a month. Quite a difference.
Before you stress over what a good price is, let the dealers battle for your business first and that will give you a good feel for what your options might be.
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Poppy D
2021 CX9 GT
Thanks for the good advice. We have two local Mazda dealers and the one we didn't visit today has a White Grand touring w/ a bench seat in stock, which is exactly what we want. So we'll visit that one tomorrow. I hope I said it right in my post, we want a GT, but test drove the Touring trim, which didn't have the heating steering wheel. It was still a very nice vehicle.
Sounds to me like the two offers they presented are the standard discounts offered by Mazda Corporate. i.e. that may be their full price without dealer negotiation. The dealer rebates may be hidden in how much they are giving you for the Equinox however, some dealers may offer a bigger retail price off but less for your Equinox. Price varies but definitely check the "how much did you pay for your CX-9 post on this forum to get an idea of what other users have paid"
With regards to the interest rate. 0% is hardly ever free and consumer almost always pay for them one way or another. For example, in my area (Canada) at regular price Ford has 0% interest rate offers, during Ford Employee Pricing event the prices are lower but the interest rate higher. I think Mazdas may be unique because they present you the 2 interest options. (I may be wrong here though, the only cars I bought new were Mazdas). In both new car purchase for me it was cheaper to take the higher interest route with the bigger rebate, and that's is without cash downpayment. It is counterintuitive, but sometime 0% isn't cheaper. You showed it with your calculation above. If you get the 0% you save $2,062 as opposed to saving $3,000 if you go with 3% interest rate, so the 3% interest rate would offer a net saving of $938 compared to the 0% option on a $20,000 loan. If you are torn between the 0% or not, just go with the cheaper deal overall. If you have a hard time figuring out which one is cheaper on the spot, the monthly payments don't lie. If the monthly payment are cheaper for the same 60 month period, then it is cheaper. (Bonus, in my case the 4% loan with my bank could be reimbursed at anytime for no fees, I payed it faster and saved even more money.)
That being said, both offers mentioned seems to me like standard Mazda corporate mark-off available at any Mazda, not a deal from the dealer.