P5 Won't start in cold weather...

[imola.zhp]

This problem started last year, one day I thought I bought some bad fuel, car wouldn't start when I tried to leave work. It also just so happened to be a day in which the high temp was at Midnight, and as the day progressed, it got colder and colder...

25 this morning in Memphis, car wouldn't start...

However

If I hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank the $h!+ out of her for +/- 10 minutes, eventually she fires up. Belts squealing and sounding like she's going to eat a small child, lol...

Late Spring/ Summer /Early Fall, absofreakinglutly no starting problems, Late Fall/ Winter /Early Spring, doesn't want to start in the cold. Last year it seemed to be anything below 40, she wouldn't start, but in the past week we had 3-4 days in the low-mid 30's and she was fine.

Once the car has started and is warmed up, I can shut her off and she'll fire right back up...

All help appreciated, here's what I checked/tried last year...

- New spark plugs
----No luck
- Inspected fuel pump / fuel "socks"
----Pump seems to be working fine (hums, etc)
----"Socks" look brand new

Oh, may or may not need to be noted, this car has leaking valve stem seals and/or rings. She smokes at start-up, until she's warmed up, she's about to roll 230,000 miles.

 

[MAZDA_SPEED]

uhm, nice mileage!

 

[hornsfan10609]

Cranking your car over for 10 minutes straight is absolutely HORRIBLE for the engine and I really hope you never do it again, or you will need at least a new starter.

 

[msp5]

With that milage theres a good possiblity it could be the rings.When it gets cold metal shrinks.Maybe after cranking it for a little you create enough friction to seal the rings and get compression.Next time its cold, like first thing in the morning, do a compresion check and then do one after shes warmed up and compare the numbers.Maybe when shes cold your loosing compression due to the cold metal.

 

[justanothermp5]

+1^

also have u checked the battery? mine has 207K and when it wouldnt start one day i was like WTF!!?? but i checked the battery and one of the terminals had a shitload of gunk on it, cleaned it off and it started up right away

and dont hold the gas pedal down like that, thats an easy way to flood your engine and then you really wont get it to start for a while

 

[MAZDA_SPEED]

This should get her going

 

[imola.zhp]

uhm, nice mileage!

Thanks! Purchased at 213'ish...

Cranking your car over for 10 minutes straight is absolutely HORRIBLE for the engine and I really hope you never do it again, or you will need at least a new starter.

I've done this well over a dozen times, probably close to 25 now, starter is fine. Its a beater, if the starter goes out, I'll just buy another starter...

With that milage theres a good possiblity it could be the rings.When it gets cold metal shrinks.Maybe after cranking it for a little you create enough friction to seal the rings and get compression.Next time its cold, like first thing in the morning, do a compresion check and then do one after shes warmed up and compare the numbers.Maybe when shes cold your loosing compression due to the cold metal.

Thank you! Finally a helpful hint! I was afraid something like this might be the issue. I've been meaning to do both a wet and dry compression test to see exactly how good or bad the rings/valve seals are. But between full time school and full time work, I haven't had much time to do much of anything. I might have time this or next weekend, excellent advice! (drinks) One of the guys at work said I could have an old engine-block heater of his, just hook her up to an extension cord at night. This might do it for the 6-8 weeks of below 40 degree weather we have in Memphis.

+1^

also have u checked the battery? mine has 207K and when it wouldnt start one day i was like WTF!!?? but i checked the battery and one of the terminals had a shitload of gunk on it, cleaned it off and it started up right away

and dont hold the gas pedal down like that, thats an easy way to flood your engine and then you really wont get it to start for a while

Battery is good terminals are clean, went through that when she did this last year. As for holding down the pedal, if I don't the car just cranks and cranks, if I do, she acts like she's trying to start, then eventually she does. Its worked decently well so far unless the battery gets low, then I have to do it while its hooked up to my (running) BMW...

This should get her going

LOL, I almost caught her on fire trying that last year, pulled a vacuum line off of the intake, squirted some of that in there and then cranked her. The car basically back-fired and blew the lid off of the airbox, along with a nice little fire-ball. Not sure how the filter DIDNT catch fire, but it didn't...

 

[P-Funk!]

^inspect the maf!

when you starting by holding the pedal and cranking until it starts - it tells the ECU in 'I am flooded' so it cuts fuel to 'dry the engine' and then reintroduces fuel to start.

So unless you are flooded (stuck open injector) it should not be done. Pull the plugs after a few attempts to start normally - is one fuel soaked? All?

 

[Lord_Zath]

I've found that turning the key to the on position and waiting for the beeping to stop before starting the engine helps me out in cold weather...

 

[imola.zhp]

^inspect the maf!

when you starting by holding the pedal and cranking until it starts - it tells the ECU in 'I am flooded' so it cuts fuel to 'dry the engine' and then reintroduces fuel to start.

So unless you are flooded (stuck open injector) it should not be done. Pull the plugs after a few attempts to start normally - is one fuel soaked? All?

I'll check into this next time it happens and let you know, thanks!

I've found that turning the key to the on position and waiting for the beeping to stop before starting the engine helps me out in cold weather...

I'll try this as well, thank you!

 

[imola.zhp]

Holy crap!

So, it was 26 outside this morning, after I responded above. I expected the car NOT to start. However, I did as Lord_Zath suggested, wait for the dinnging to stop before cranking, and she fired right up!

Drove to work, went to leave for a meeting about 2.5 hours after arriving. Jumped in and cranked right away, she did not start. I didn't crank too long though because I thought "duh, you didn't wait for the dingging to stop." So I shut the key off, then back on, waited for the dingging to stop, then she fired right up.

Could it really have been that easy all along? I seriously didn't get to drive this car last winter for about 8 weeks...

I'll keep y'all posted, and if she starts to act up, I'll look into other in-depth suggestions suggested.

Thanks again!

 

[Lord_Zath]

Glad it worked out for ya. Amazing how something as small as that can make a large difference.

 

[P-Funk!]

BUt you should not have to... What you are doing (as Lord Zath suggested) is pressurizing the fuel rail. It is designed to hold fuel pressure at least overnight (mine holds for aweek it seems). You have a check valve leaking. BUT not really a problem as you seem to have a work-around.

 

[CulRidr]

No one has mentioned this (and it seems fuel related with a nice hint from Mr. Zath), but what oil viscosity are you running?

 

[imola.zhp]

BUt you should not have to... What you are doing (as Lord Zath suggested) is pressurizing the fuel rail. It is designed to hold fuel pressure at least overnight (mine holds for aweek it seems). You have a check valve leaking. BUT not really a problem as you seem to have a work-around.

I agree, the fuel rail must be loosing pressure as the car sits. Where would this check-valve be located? I might attempt to replace it if its not too expensive or difficult.

No one has mentioned this (and it seems fuel related with a nice hint from Mr. Zath), but what oil viscosity are you running?

^ good point, I have another thread (older), linked below...

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123756125

in which I was asking about oil viscosity as I thought that might be the issue. I usually run 10w-30, but have also recently purchased 5w-30. This car uses about a qt per week, so I'd like to think its all switched over to 5w-30 by now. But I am planning for an oil change in the next couple of weeks. I started this thread, a new one, because as you might read in that link, I ruled oil viscosity out. But I do certainly appreciate you bringing it up as it could definitely have been an issue if I were running thicker than 10w-30....

 

[MonkeyBone]

minus 23 c today ~ minus 10 f

car started like a champ!!!

 

[CulRidr]

You use a quart of oil per week? How much distance do you cover in that time? I was burning a quart of oil/tank and I had both finished valve seals and at least one blown piston ring...would either of these make a difference in terms of starting a car?

 

[imola.zhp]

^ +/- 350 miles per week, pretty much 1 qt per tank too...

I'm sure it doesn't help, I'm sure its also some combination of rings and valve seals, it quits smoking when its warm. Not sure if its from the oil that has dripped onto the piston finally being burned off or whats left of the rings expanding to eliminate blow-by. I would guess a combination of both. Seems to get worse the lighter weight oil I put in it. Ran some 20w in the summer and she used less, running 5w now, using more...

Just kinda waiting for a good deal on an engine to fall in my lap, hasn't happened yet.

Warmed back up, slightly, haven't had a morning less than 30 in the past week or so, no troubles...

=)

 

[imola.zhp]

No go this morning...

=/

Drove the bimmer in. I think this car wants to be started and ran daily, I didn't drive it Saturday and is pissed.

 

[coucou50]

Hi,
Not to resucitate an old thread, but did tge OP sorted its issue ?
I'm experiencing the exact same issue on a 1999 1.8 LX Protege. I have the car for very long time now, with a proud 350,000 km on it ... and I should say that so far this is my only real issue that I had with it. I'm scared to take it in the winter since the colder it gets the harder it is to start it. At -20C she cranks but it's like there is no combustion. No codes.
Coil ? EGR ? Is there a VICS/VTCS on that thing ... I thought that those were meant to ease up the cold start and high RPM (both of the richess conditions)
I just replaced the battery, the fuel pump and tank (was leaking).