What to buy? MS3 or Civic si

[blue2turbo]

Register Nurse, the one who comes to you at the hospital room when you wake up and call for you mommy, but real naughty sounds better!!!

Let me tell you this, if you go for the Si, DO NOT pay MSRP, I know you said you had a discount and I am not sure how, but I used to be a Honda Salesman, and let me tell you, if they say they can't come off MSRP, they can... IF you decide to go that route and get the Si, feel free to PM me the numbers i.e. what they want for the car, what they want to give you for your trade, what tax/title/tags are, and what the out the door price is... I will give you some insight on how to get them lower. If you have someone to do that for you, disregard, but if you don't just send me the numbers off your "purchase order" or whatever the form they have.

 

[zoomzoom mazda5]

I will let you know if she goes for the Si. Her company is the insurance for Honda USA, so she can get a discount on all Honda products, but only one car per year. thanks to everyone for your comments!!!!!!!!!

 

[MySpeed3]

I will let you know if she goes for the Si. Her company is the insurance for Honda USA, so she can get a discount on all Honda products, but only one car per year. thanks to everyone for your comments!!!!!!!!!

Just a bit of info. My wife prefers driving the MazdaSpeed3 because there are NO blind spots for her. Now the SI is hard for her to drive....very hard to see the blind spot on the driver side.....
But she prefers the SI for not until we get a BOV for the Speed.

 

[RunningJon]

I can relate, almost...

I traded in my '06 Habanero Red SI (bought new, put on 16k miles during the 6 months I had it) for my new '07 Speed6 GT a few months ago. I've never driven a Speed3, but I did like the test drive I took in a 3s a few years ago when they first came out.

The Civic was a great car, I can't say anything really negative about it. It just wasn't exactly the car for me:
What I liked about the SI:
1. Even though you're not moving all that quickly, it feels and sounds like you're absolutely flying! (fun when you're alone)
2. The engine is perfectly balanced and just begs to Revved, and it sounds FANTASTIC doing it. (hitting 8000+ RPM was an experience)
3. The shifter is as smooth and easy as they come (which is good, because you'll be using it, a lot.) The comptech short shifter I added only made it better.
4. . Resale Value. I received almost exactly what I paid for it when I traded it in, and they sold it for more than I paid for it brand new!

What I didn't like, and the reasons I traded it in:
1. Even though you're not going all that quick, it feels and sounds like you're absolutely flying! (sucks when you're taking co-workers out to lunch)
2. The gearing will be shorter in a car with 6 forward gears, but my Speed6 also has 6 speeds and it sure doesn't seem like I have to shift as much as I did in the SI. (that might have something to do with having twice the torque as the SI though...)
2. I was only getting ~26mpg on the required premium fuel (my daily commute is 45 miles each way, about 85% of which is freeway at 70+ mph)
I get ~24mpg in my Speed6 on the same Premium Fuel, I bet I could do 26+ if I didn't like the feeling of boost so much. I imagine the MS3 could be slightly better than that
3. While it does handle quite well, the ride can be a bit harsh at times. (but it's really no worse than what you'd expect from that type of smaller sporty car.)
4. Anyone in the backseat will complain about headroom if they're over 5'4 or so. But they have come out with the 4-door SI since I had mine, so theere may be a way to get around the space issue (while the introduction of a 4-door SI has been considered blasphemy to a number of Honda enthusiasts, I have no fundamental problems with it, I just find the new 4-door civic, in any trim, really ugly and goofy looking)

There's more for both sides of the argument but I think I've hit the major points. And since I'm at work on saturday night, I'd really like to finish up what I got called in to do so I can head home.

In the end, do I miss my SI? Almost everytime I see, or hear, one. But then I hop in my Speed6 and forget all about the little Honda.
Hope that helps.

Edit: after reading through everyone's post more closely, Blue2Turbo's posts (which are all absolutely right on) reminded me about the "Fast and Furious" crowd. That was the biggest thing I hated about the SI, everyone would either try to race me (teenagers in their POS's), or watch me until they could pull me over for doing 1mph over the limit (police) It seriously seemed like there was constantly a huge spotlight on that car wherever I went. And I won't even mention how often I worried about the car being stolen or broken into.

 

[joesmazdaspeed]

My wife wants to get rid of her Matrix XRS 03. Far as i know it's a piece of crap car(deadhorse (so far about 3 grand in repairs). I asking all the Mazda folks in this forum if you think the mazdaspeed3 is a great purchase or the civic si? I understand that every car isn't perfect but want fellow members input on this, my ride is a mazda5 with some mods, so any input would be appreciate. zoomzoom(burnout)

def the ms3 by far

 

[Donas64]

I traded in my '06 Habanero Red SI (bought new, put on 16k miles during the 6 months I had it) for my new '07 Speed6 GT a few months ago. I've never driven a Speed3, but I did like the test drive I took in a 3s a few years ago when they first came out.

The Civic was a great car, I can't say anything really negative about it. It just wasn't exactly the car for me:
What I liked about the SI:
1. Even though you're not moving all that quickly, it feels and sounds like you're absolutely flying! (fun when you're alone)
2. The engine is perfectly balanced and just begs to Revved, and it sounds FANTASTIC doing it. (hitting 8000+ RPM was an experience)
3. The shifter is as smooth and easy as they come (which is good, because you'll be using it, a lot.) The comptech short shifter I added only made it better.
4. . Resale Value. I received almost exactly what I paid for it when I traded it in, and they sold it for more than I paid for it brand new!

What I didn't like, and the reasons I traded it in:
1. Even though you're not going all that quick, it feels and sounds like you're absolutely flying! (sucks when you're taking co-workers out to lunch)
2. The gearing will be shorter in a car with 6 forward gears, but my Speed6 also has 6 speeds and it sure doesn't seem like I have to shift as much as I did in the SI. (that might have something to do with having twice the torque as the SI though...)
2. I was only getting ~26mpg on the required premium fuel (my daily commute is 45 miles each way, about 85% of which is freeway at 70+ mph)
I get ~24mpg in my Speed6 on the same Premium Fuel, I bet I could do 26+ if I didn't like the feeling of boost so much. I imagine the MS3 could be slightly better than that
3. While it does handle quite well, the ride can be a bit harsh at times. (but it's really no worse than what you'd expect from that type of smaller sporty car.)
4. Anyone in the backseat will complain about headroom if they're over 5'4 or so. But they have come out with the 4-door SI since I had mine, so theere may be a way to get around the space issue (while the introduction of a 4-door SI has been considered blasphemy to a number of Honda enthusiasts, I have no fundamental problems with it, I just find the new 4-door civic, in any trim, really ugly and goofy looking)

There's more for both sides of the argument but I think I've hit the major points. And since I'm at work on saturday night, I'd really like to finish up what I got called in to do so I can head home.

In the end, do I miss my SI? Almost everytime I see, or hear, one. But then I hop in my Speed6 and forget all about the little Honda.
Hope that helps.

Edit: after reading through everyone's post more closely, Blue2Turbo's posts (which are all absolutely right on) reminded me about the "Fast and Furious" crowd. That was the biggest thing I hated about the SI, everyone would either try to race me (teenagers in their POS's), or watch me until they could pull me over for doing 1mph over the limit (police) It seriously seemed like there was constantly a huge spotlight on that car wherever I went. And I won't even mention how often I worried about the car being stolen or broken into.

excellent post

 

[zoomzoom mazda5]

Great reply's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! outstanding to hear from all of you, that why this is the best forums around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks everyone, will post when she make up her mind on what she is going to do. Angelo(cheers)

 

[ptperformance]

Drive both of them and then you can make a better decision. The MS3 is a much better car and if you like to tinker with your car adding more HP is much easier with the MS then the Honda, just tring to help.

 

[bast525]

They are both great cars, I should know as I own both. I bought the MS3 for myself and an '07 Si coupe for my wife.

The Si is a great car no doubt, but for all the extra performance you get with the MS3, and the small difference in price between an Si and an MS3 sport.... it just doesn't make sense to get an Si.

I got my wife the Si becuase I wanted something fun for her that would get great gas mileage. But for anyone who really wants performance, the MS blows the Si out of the water. Not just HP and acceleration either, the MS handles and brakes noticeably better as well.

If they were a few grand in price difference it'd be a different story, but at less than a grand price between base models, I would not be able to justify buying an Si over the MS3.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Well, for the time being I am passing on the Si. I been reading about to many issues with the transmission. If the dealer does not accept my offer for the incoming red MS3 I plan on either getting a little EX Civic to do my day to day errands in or possibly the 2008 Honda Accord Coupe. It is rumored to be 300 hp and the shape is absolutely killer.

 

[zoomzoom mazda5]

Well, this weekend i had to replace the clutch on that damn matrix ($1000.00), and now that i did that she wants to hold on till next year for a new car, and now the check engine light comes on and i check it and found its her number one spark plug (no fire)and the o2 sensor! I'm so sick of this car (it is a money pit), maybe somebody will steal the car and wrap it around a pole for my misery's, but like i said she wants to keep it for awhile, so thanks everyone for your comments on this thread. (deadhorse

 

[MS6S2K]

You are on a speed 3 forum, so the resonses are obvious. Ask this on a Civic SI forum, what will they say? This is subjective. There's only one thing I know. If I was looking for a car I was gonna keep for many many years, and I drove LOTS of miles, the Civic SI is a no brainer. It's a very fun car in it's own right, and high revving can be just as much fun as all that beefy torque and power.

As a Speed 6 owner, I cannot see this car going 200k miles virtually trouble free. There's gonna be turbo replacement, and overall less reliability, because of it's high boost turbo engine. The Civic will likely just go and go and go and go. There's arguments to be made for both cars, on which is a better choice, and honestly, I think it's a stalemate. The Civic offers things the Speed 3 can't, and if you think a Speed 3 is gonna be as reliable as a Civic SI long term, you're dreaming.

 

[Donas64]

You are on a speed 3 forum, so the resonses are obvious. Ask this on a Civic SI forum, what will they say? This is subjective. There's only one thing I know. If I was looking for a car I was gonna keep for many many years, and I drove LOTS of miles, the Civic SI is a no brainer. It's a very fun car in it's own right, and high revving can be just as much fun as all that beefy torque and power.

As a Speed 6 owner, I cannot see this car going 200k miles virtually trouble free. There's gonna be turbo replacement, and overall less reliability, because of it's high boost turbo engine. The Civic will likely just go and go and go and go. There's arguments to be made for both cars, on which is a better choice, and honestly, I think it's a stalemate. The Civic offers things the Speed 3 can't, and if you think a Speed 3 is gonna be as reliable as a Civic SI long term, you're dreaming.

If they were honest, you know what they would say.

This is a mazda board but when the MSP vs SRT4 debate comes up, I'm an SRT4 supporter even though I own a Mazda. Its all about intellectual honesty.

 

[Betelgeuse]

After reading the troubles with the 06-07 Civic SI, I will beg to differ with those that praise its reliability. Also who are these suckers that are paying the same or more for these cars used? They should slapped upside the head...... with a baseball bat.

The ms3 is the better value for sure and because it's limited the resale will not suffer very much. But I didn't buy this car for the resale either, not sure why someone would. As for performance, it's no contest. Looks, the ms3 is better from every angle (imo). Utility, the ms3 wins. It's a no brainer.

If reliability and good mileage is at the top of your priorities, buy a regular civic, mazda3 or corolla, and never mod it.

 

[BoostThat3]

If you are looking at reliability (engine), the Si is probably better for your wife. Since the MS3 is a turbo engine, it's going to have a shorter engine life. Period. Now, I'm not saying the Si is going to last longer than the MS3 - it really depends on the driver for that.

If you are looking at reliability with the quality of the car with the safety crash rating etc. etc., the MS3 is for you.

If you are looking at speed, quality, safety, and reliability all together - the MS3 is for you.

Also, if your wife drives 6 speed, and doesn't mind driving it daily - I'd go for the MS3.

EDIT - I have not really heard about the Si problems, so disregard anything I said that contradicts/conflicts with anything.

 

[MS6S2K]

I should have better phrased that. Reliability is also subjective. Lets put it this way, The Civic will cost MUCH less to own overall over a long period of time. As for reliability, you always take N/A over turbo. But rather then argue reliability, the cost of maintaining and overall life expetency with less costs, you just gotta give the nod to Honda. Less HP for most part means longer life. I don't imagine I'll be getting 200k miles out of my clutch or turbo, and perhaps not my engine. Under normal driving, I have to give the nod to The Civic SI. The odds are simply greater. the Speed 3 is just different. Now a regular Mazda 3, that's a different ball of wax. You cannot use the regular Mazda 3, and compare relaibility. They are really two totally different cars regarding reliability.

Example. For someone who is looking for a daily driver, and will be driving 25-30k miles a year with a lot of highway, if saving money is your goal, then the Civic is clearly the better choice. We all have to make sacrifices here. Of course the temptation to modify, and drive the car harder is ALWAYS there when you have high boost and that kind of torque with mod ability. Take it from an S2000 owner. My Speed 6 is much easier to go fast in. With a Civic SI, which is much like my S2000 engine wise, you have to rev it to go fast, so you just don't step on the gas and go. It feels like a normal car unless you really rev the stink out of it. The Speed 3 and 6, well they just GO, and overall that's gonna wear down the car faster, even under normal driving. It's opinion, so no need to argue.

I would take The Civic SI over my Speed 6 any day if you asked me which I think will hold up longer with less costs. The maintanence alone is far less as well, so you save $$$$$, but sacrifice performance. However, I knew that going in, and I'd rather have my Speed 6, even if it costs more to maintain, gets less MPG, and likely will not hold up as long. It's all a compromise any way you look at it when you buy any type of car. You gain something, lose something else.

 

[zoomzoom mazda5]

Thanks guys for your input on this subject. I was going to post in a civic forum but i knew that they would say. I feel better on the Mazda forum because at least one would be honest on this subject and like i said before, this is the best forum around!!!

 

[Betelgeuse]

I should have better phrased that. Reliability is also subjective. Lets put it this way, The Civic will cost MUCH less to own overall over a long period of time. As for reliability, you always take N/A over turbo. But rather then argue reliability, the cost of maintaining and overall life expetency with less costs, you just gotta give the nod to Honda. Less HP for most part means longer life. I don't imagine I'll be getting 200k miles out of my clutch or turbo, and perhaps not my engine. Under normal driving, I have to give the nod to The Civic SI. The odds are simply greater. the Speed 3 is just different. Now a regular Mazda 3, that's a different ball of wax. You cannot use the regular Mazda 3, and compare relaibility. They are really two totally different cars regarding reliability.

Example. For someone who is looking for a daily driver, and will be driving 25-30k miles a year with a lot of highway, if saving money is your goal, then the Civic is clearly the better choice. We all have to make sacrifices here. Of course the temptation to modify, and drive the car harder is ALWAYS there when you have high boost and that kind of torque with mod ability. Take it from an S2000 owner. My Speed 6 is much easier to go fast in. With a Civic SI, which is much like my S2000 engine wise, you have to rev it to go fast, so you just don't step on the gas and go. It feels like a normal car unless you really rev the stink out of it. The Speed 3 and 6, well they just GO, and overall that's gonna wear down the car faster, even under normal driving. It's opinion, so no need to argue.

I would take The Civic SI over my Speed 6 any day if you asked me which I think will hold up longer with less costs. The maintanence alone is far less as well, so you save $$$$$, but sacrifice performance. However, I knew that going in, and I'd rather have my Speed 6, even if it costs more to maintain, gets less MPG, and likely will not hold up as long. It's all a compromise any way you look at it when you buy any type of car. You gain something, lose something else.

You are looking at this from the standpoint of an ms6 owner. While the engine /tranny are essentially the same, there are enough differences between an ms3 and ms6 that one can't stand in for the other. The ms6 has a more complex drivetrain, a different ECU with probably a slightly different tune, more gadjets and is heavier. Those factors alone can affect its reliability more or less than an ms3.


I believe (and from my own experience) reliability falls squarely on the shoulders of the owner for the most part. Yeah some cars are more prone to failures than others, but having owned 3 Mazdas in the past (and knowing people that have hit > 200k on some cars)I believe firmly that if the engine is taken care of like it should, it will last.

And a turboed car can be driven just as tamely as an n/a and get decent mileage and less wear and tear. Boost is limited on the ms3 in the lower gears so the turbo isn't working hard before the rpms hit 3k or so. I believe the ms6 doesn't have this limitation but I could be wrong. When driven like grandma, the ms3 feels just like any n/a car.

 

[bast525]

Having owned a turbocharged Nissan that went well over 200k miles w/o needing it's engine or turbo replaced, I have to disagree that a high boosted motor is not going to make it to that mark. Take care of it and use good synthetic oil and there' s no reason a boosted motor won't last a long time.

As for the Si's reliability, I can tell you firsthand that our '07 Si coupe is already having transmission problems. And we are just about to take it to the dealer though due to the nature of the problem they probably won't do anything.

Actually it's two problems. The first is 3rd gear, which, when the car is cold, sometimes it is hard to shift into third, it feels like it 'catches' on something and just doesn't want to go in, and sometimes it grinds.

Second, when driving hard, revving to redline in first and then trying to shift quickly into second, the trans grinds almost every time. Mind you, I do drive the car hard when I drive it, which isnt' that often. But I've been driving manual's for over a decade and never worn out a transmission (including on that 200 k Nissan I mentioned above). And my wife rarely ever drives the car hard and I've never once seen her grind a gear.

It's true that on some Honda forums, there have been more than a few people with transmission problems. You see 2nd and 3rd gear problems a LOT on the RSX Type S forums as well, which it's my understanding they're the same or very similiar trans.

 

[Speed3girl]

You can put it easy and say if you want better gas mileage than go with the Si, cause if your wife is anything like me.....you will go through gas quick on the Speed 3. LOL I love that turbo.