New Vibrant Performance CatBack system

tgv121281 said:
PS-Briand805, can you tell me where you sent your email to? You got a response the next day, and I still havent heard anything since Sat.
I sent mine to info@vibrantperformance.com. Lemme know!

I sent my email to the same place you did.at 12:14 am on the 8th recieved a response at 11:56 am on the 8th which was A Saturday.. pleasantly surprised to get such a fast response.
 
This is the response I got when I pushed Draxas. I asked for numbers on the system w/ hi flow cat, and explained that Vibrant was posting some good numbers. I think he has a very good point, I dont know about the numbers being off by 10hp, but other than that I think what he's saying is pretty much right on. Lets see what Vibrant answers back with. SHould get interesting!

PS-Does anyone want to push Corksport for their info? Maybe we can get a 3-way battle going!
 
This was corksport's reply abou ttheir exhaust system. I replied for him to send me the numbers w/ the intake so we can have an idea. Lets see!





1-Gains, Dynos?

We can get a car on the dyno with the exhaust system and an Injen intake but I do not have a before and after dyno run. When you remove the old exhaust it has to be cut off unless you are into removing your rear sub frame.



2-Do you utilize clamps or bolts for installation?

Our system bolts on.



3-The price seems relatively low, any catches????

No catches, just a good product for a decent price.



4-Any Sound clips?

We have some but the sound quality is not so good. I will see about getting something up on the webpage.
 
tgv121281 said:
This is the response I got when I pushed Draxas. I asked for numbers on the system w/ hi flow cat, and explained that Vibrant was posting some good numbers. I think he has a very good point, I dont know about the numbers being off by 10hp, but other than that I think what he's saying is pretty much right on. Lets see what Vibrant answers back with. SHould get interesting!

PS-Does anyone want to push Corksport for their info? Maybe we can get a 3-way battle going!


I dont see a Draxas response..
 
Vibrant Performance Response

Ok guys, here's what they said. I replied 1 more time asking them what variables they used when they did the dyno since we thought the pulls were a little weak. I'll post that when I have it.----Hope this is helping, if its not please let me know not to waste my time...otherwise...enjoy

PS-Brian, thanks for the headsup...I forgot to paste the email from Draxas..will do now..




Hi Tony

Thanks for the email...I like guys who get right to the point.

We recognize that we have only really teased people with info about our soon to be released systems for the Mazda3. That was done for a few reasons. First, we did not want to get people too excited about the system before we were ready to start shipping them. We made that mistake in the past and we sort of got burned. This time, we decided to just throw a little info out to the forums and the magazines to get some interest perked up and then we would do a big press release with all the details, including audio, as soon as the product is physically boxed up, sitting on the shelf and ready to start shipping to dealers.

However, I will answer each an every one of your questions in detail because the systems are almost ready to start shipping (we have less than 4 more weeks before the first systems start to roll out) and it's time to start cranking up the PR machine for this system.

Please see my replies in BLUE text below each of your questions:


Best Regards,

Dino Rossi (Jr.)
Product Manager
Vibrant Performance
www.vibrantperformance.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Valenziano [mailto:tvalenziano@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 10:46 AM
To: Dino Jr. Rossi
Subject: 2004 2.3L MAZDA3, 5DOOR.........Draxas VS. Vibrant


Guys, I'm completely lost and I need some help QUICK. I've already ordered my exhaust through Draxas and I'm very close to cancelling and ordering one of yours due to some research that I've done. In fact there's about 12other people in the same exact situation as me, so this is on behalf of all of us. We need some more info. Your site just doesn't give us some of the info we need to know in order to switch over. Please help us out w/ the following questions so we can do what we all feel is the right move.

1-Need some instructions, or a list of parts. Draxas uses clamps, rumor is you guys don't, need proof of some sort.

Tony, here is a photo of the system. As you can clearly see, this is a complete BOLT ON system. Therefore, no need for clamps. All we include in this kit is 3 gaskets, 8 nuts, 8 bolts and 16 washers to connect the whole thing.

You will have to cut your stock mid-pipe in half to get it off the car but that's the only "messy" part of the install (and you would have to do that with anyone else's system anyways so it really is not a knock against our system...that's just the reality of the OE system).

We integrate an ultra high flow metal monolith catalytic converter into the mid pipe to make the install as easy and simple as possible. Our cat will flow between 2 and 3 times better than a traditional ceramic core cat (such as the one that Draxas uses).



-

2-Need a sound clip, the exhaust looks great on the blue 3 on the site, but how about some audio?

- I'm working on this. I can promise you that the system sounds fantastic...nice low deep tone (not like bees in a can or anything like some systems sound on Civics). Our original test car has been very hard to book in for time to do a sound test but I have tentatively booked it for an hour on Jan. 14. If we get it done, I'll add it to the site and email you.

3-Need some kind of pricing idea. The list of authorized dealers on the site don't advertise price, or even talk about this system. That said, need the info of your best authorized dealer in the US..the one with the best shipping times, prices, and support. (FYI this is where you can seriously differ from Draxas, they wont have our orders in till 2/7/05....however we only have a few days left to cancel per their "policy")

- The suggested retail price is $699.95 US for the complete kit. However, our dealers are telling us that they will be offering introductory pricing on this system (likely between $599.95 and $609.95...somewhere in there). You will have to contact our dealers to get accurate "street" prices. If someone prefer to buy directly from us, we will be selling it at the full MSRP price....we prefer not to sell direct to the public but when we do, it's always at full MSRP...we don't discount.

- If you prefer to buy online, I would recommend the following dealers:

East Coast

www.driverfx.com

www.gscmotorsports.com

www.titanmotorsports.com


West Coast

www.shopcms.com

www.horsepowerfreaks.com


These are all very reputable mail order dealers who can handle your orders with no problem. They will all be selling the system at more or less the same price but you can feel free to shop around.

These companies by and large don't have anything posted on their sites for this exhaust system yet as we did not want our dealers prematurely accepting orders for this exhaust system until we could guarantee a relatively accurate shipping date. Now that we can assure people that the first batch of product will start shipping in 3-4 weeks, we are sending complete new product announcements to all of our dealers so they can start taking pre-orders this week or next week.

Of course, all of our "bricks and mortar" dealers will also be happy to accept orders for this system. If people on the boards want to find a dealer close to them, try our dealer locator on our website (click the distributor button) to find one near them. We don't have dealers in all 50 states but we have dealers in most.



4-Need to know what other products are seriously(no BS) in the works for our cars. Headers would be nice....!

- We are almost finished developing a Front Upper Strut Bar for the Mazda3. It's been a challenge but we are almost done.

- We'll be studying doing a header for this car later this winter. The soonest we would have a header prototype developed would be March.


5-Need this info assap, as mentioned above we have a few more days to cancel our orders before we're stuck with them. In case you think I'm bluffing about my claim of having at least 12other people in my situation, check out www.mazdaiii.com , just browse around and you'll probably see alot more than 12 people talking about this problem...however, there's 12 that I know of that are serious, there may be more-but I cant verify.

- I hope this info helps. If you need any more info, feel free to call me at 905-564-2808 x 238
 
Draxas Response---

Sorry for the cunfusion.....




Tony,

We posted dyno numbers from our system a couple months ago. The
numbers on our site are for our
base system that utilizes the stock cat. The day we dynoed the Mazda3,
we had trouble installing
the race pipe section of the exhaust, so we were unable to dyno that
portion.

When this next batch of exhausts come out, I am planning on having
another dyno session in Los
Angeles to test our Option #3 exhaust system.

In defense of our exhaust (and I have posted this on message boards and
our site).... It is not
fair to judge gains from one exhaust system to another exhaust system
when the two kits were
installed on two different cars and two different dynos were used,
often seperated by thousands of
miles. Who knows who the different cars are setup or how each dyno is
calibrated. It has been
tested in various magazines and websites, that the same car can on the
same day using different
dynos can dyno VERY differently from dyno to dyno. Sometimes the
numbers may be off by over 10hp.

Taking that into account, there is no sure/scientific/proven way to
dyno different cars on
different dynos and then accurately compare the horsepower numbers. I
have even stated that I am
more than happy to donate one of our exhaust systems for a Mazda3
Exhaust System shootout. That
way our kit can be installed onto a Mazda3 and tested on the same car
and same dyno that other
companies who donate kits for test have their system tested on. This is
the only fair way.

Our systems will soon be in stock and those people who have installed
our kits are very happy with
them. I have yet to see any dyno sheets from any of those customers,
but again, we couldnt
accurately compare their gains to our cars gains unless they were from
the same dyno. I mean, you
can compare them, but dont be surprised if the numbers are different.

Nikolas
 
Vibrant Performance, Cont'd

Guys I wanted to get the info up asap, please DO NOT CALL THIS GUY, he requests plain & simplethat you email him instead. He's been helpful and nice enough to give me/us this info---lets not burn the contact. Thank In advance.

That said here's the deal about the low pulls on the dyno, apparently its attributed to larger rims and more weight from audio....lets compare comments and thoughts, b/c it seems as if the numbers are between Draxas & Vibrant are going to be very close....Lets get some good posts, good opinions, make up our minds and if enough people are serious maybe we can find a vendor and do a group buy....talk to me people....



Hi Tony

I am glad you are happy with the info.

Below, you will find the answers to the other questions you have.

Thanks

Dino Rossi
Vibrant Performance
www.vibrantperformance.com

P.S. The latest issue of Performance Auto and Sound has a feature tech install article for this exhaust system. It shows just how easy it is to install our system.




-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Valenziano [mailto:tvalenziano@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 3:21 PM
To: Dino Jr. Rossi
Subject: RE: 2004 2.3L MAZDA3, 5DOOR.........Draxas VS. Vibrant


Dino, all I can say is YOU ARE THE MAN. Great info and very detailed, just what we needed. I have 2 more questions that should be simple enough, so here goes.

1-I know you guys posted it on the site, but I want to verify, so can you please reply with the gain numbers for the system(remember, no BS-so please also list the variable factors that can affect dyno numbers: temp, any other tuning, other modifications or add ons, etc.... And if possible the actual dyno sheets would be great!

- We dyno tested our prototype sample at Splitfire Performance in Brampton, Ontario, Canada (home of one of North America's fastest FWD drag Civics)

- The baseline pulls (with the stock exhaust installed) showed that the car made about 132HP and 129 ft. lbs of torque to the wheels.

I know that there are some in the Mazda3 community that think that those baseline numbers are too low because Mazda says that the 2.3L model makes 160HP. I'll take Mazda's word and accept their claim that the 2.3L engine does make 160HP at the crank on an engine dyno but you must keep in mind that you need to deduct approx. 15% off the crank horsepower rating to get the wheel horsepower rating (WHP). Therefore, 15% off of 160HP is 136HP. That is pretty darn close to what we got.

The 4HP variation can be as a result of various factors (tire pressure, air temperature, engine temperature, quality of gas, extra weight added to the car, etc...). This car had a full audio set up in the trunk that likely added a decent amount of weight to the car and drew some power from the battery. It was also riding on much larger than stock wheels and tires (18's rather than the stock 16's). All of these things can be factors that would rob a few horsepower.

- With our cat-back system bolted onto the car that we used for testing (which happens to be owned by Performance Auto and Sound magazine), the dyno registered 142HP at the wheels and 137 ft. lbs of torque for a total gain of 10HP and 8 ft. lbs. of torque.

Please keep in mind that, other than a full audio system, larger wheels and tires and some interior dress up parts, this car was bone stock. I don't recall measuring air temperature variations between the various passes that we did but they were all done within 90 minutes so there could not have been too much difference from start to finish. We had a large fan blowing on the motor for all the passes to make each pass as equal as possible insofar as air temperature is concerned. We made sure to let the car cool down for at least 10 to 15 minutes after each pull so that heat soak would not be an issue

If you want the actual dyno sheets, they can be pulled off our website. I can't access the server that hosts those files right now.



2-I wanted to ask your permission to post the email you sent me at mazdaiii.com. There's a forum going on right now(as I mentioned to you) that is specifically for your product. Many people there are shopping for a cat-back and would really benefit from this info(besides the people that are about to cancel on Draxas as I also mentioned.) Please let me know, thanks!

I have no problem with having this info posted online. Please don't post my phone number....I really can't have my phone ringing off the hook. However, anyone with questions can definitely email me at info@vibrantperformance.com
 
Thanks Green, but seems like you're the only one that noticed...Try to help everyone out an dwhat do you get (jerkit)! Oh well, at least I got the info for myself, and you got it too. So much for a group buy.....we're missing out big time b/c of lack of dedication.
 
tgv121281 said:
Thanks Green, but seems like you're the only one that noticed...Try to help everyone out an dwhat do you get (jerkit)! Oh well, at least I got the info for myself, and you got it too. So much for a group buy.....we're missing out big time b/c of lack of dedication.

Maybe not everyone checks these forums every 15 minutes. I never saw any info on or suggestions regarding a group buy.. If i overlooked it please direct me. Thanks for the info.

As I posted above the rep from Vibrant stated that he was told by Mazda that the exhaust for the hatch would fit the sedan... Im not sure how that is going to work seeing how the sedan is 2.1 inches longer than the hatch I believe(correct me if im wrong).. Unless it has an adjustment some place..I am going to wait till the release date nears then contact them again.. I also have a dealer not to far from my home.
 
How does extra weight in the rear of the car affect dyno results? (scratch)

Anyway, good job tgv. You're making everybody's decision harder. :D

This is also the first I've heard of a group buy.
 
Guys, dont take it to heart, I was just goofing about the dedication thing. I got the info for me, but posted it for anyone who wanted to read it...

As for the group buy thing...I mentioned it like 2 posts ago...I said:

"Lets get some good posts, good opinions, make up our minds and if enough people are serious maybe we can find a vendor and do a group buy....talk to me people...."


SInce no one knew which system (if any) they wanted I havent mentioned it to the vendors, nor did I lead anyone to believe I did, I simply figured since I made contact w/ these companies, if enough people were interested in 1 system I'd try and negotiate it w/ the company...just trying to help the team....
 
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