n/a ecu in an msp?

[mikewashere]

anyone ever do this? I've read the mp3 ecu timing is advanced more then a stock protege ecu so with that said I was wondering where this would throw my a/f's in a msp.

Thanks

 

[tweety2300]

By far the dumbest question I've seen in awhile

If you used an NA ecu it would throw a rod within the first week, it has no idea what to do with boost at all, would run like s***, etc.

Why the hell would you even consider doing that?

 

[mikewashere]

you care to back up that statement now? lol there's no such thing as a dumb question, just dumb answers

What makes it "SO" harmful? have you done it or know of anyone whose done it? If you have NO experience on it, I would suggest not speaking on behalf of something you have no evidence on. I was simply curious as to where this ecu would throw the a/f's at on an msp.

 

[nickflanders]

You are putting in an ecu that is not meant for boost into a turbo car.. Same idea as turboing a honda with a stock ecu. It may run but not well or for long.

 

[mikewashere]

You guys are aware 2.0L fs-de in our cars are the SAME motors in an n/a protege all except a Garrett t25 turbo attached to it. What does a ssafc do? Lean out the a/f. The stock msp Ecu is extremely rich, 2.0 N/A fs-de NOT MP3 Ecu would lean out our cars quite a bit more but how much? what is it that makes it SO harmful to not boost on?

I'd like to know why this is because it seems to sound like it would work out fine as long as it doesn't lean it out too much

 

[Spiced MSP]

You aren't looking at the whole picture. N/A ECUs will lean out the mixture some. but thats not the problem. the mp3 ECU has a more advanced timing map. With a boosted car like the MSP, you want to retard timing as boost increases and then advance again. With the more advanced timing with the mp3 ECU , you will more than likely experience detonation as soon as you start boosting. Don't make that mistake. Keep the Msp ECU and tune with a piggyback. No need to question the guys response either. He gave you an honest answer, which is the truth. If you don't like the answer, don't post on the forum. You need to read up on the basics of tuning with a boosted car before you make a costly mistake and end up replacing your engine

 

[tweety2300]

Yes the motors are the same in every way, do you know how much air that little turbo puts out vs. the amount of air an NA car can suck in?

Obviously you have no idea how tuning works, using an NA ecu sure will lean it out under boost but to the extent to where if it runs it won't be long. You would be better off throwing a 200 shot of nitrous to it

Get an ssafc and tune it rather than destroy your car. Also the ssafc lets you add or take away fuel, so that you mod your car and have it tuned for those mods, its not A Pre tuned chip that you just plug in. If you want to cheap out on leaning it out on stock boost run 10 psi, it will probly last longer and run better than using an NA ecu

 

[mikewashere]

You aren't looking at the whole picture. N/A ECUs will lean out the mixture some. but thats not the problem. the mp3 ECU has a more advanced timing map. With a boosted car like the MSP, you want to retard timing as boost increases and then advance again. With the more advanced timing with the mp3 ECU , you will more than likely experience detonation as soon as you start boosting. Don't make that mistake. Keep the Msp ECU and tune with a piggyback. No need to question the guys response either. He gave you an honest answer, which is the truth. If you don't like the answer, don't post on the forum. You need to read up on the basics of tuning with a boosted car before you make a costly mistake and end up replacing your engine

wow.

I said above "NOT the mp3 ecu" as I know the timing IS advanced more on those ecu's which would just be hell on an msp. The stock ecu on a protege runs less advanced then an mp3 and less rich then an msp, would that not be a middle spot? If you have not done this or are speaking simply on the thought of it "just not working" I do believe you probably shouldn't be writing in this thread.

 

[mikewashere]

A turbo ecu doesnt retard timing then advance it again .. lol it just doesnt advance timing nearly as high as an n/a ecu. its a proven fact that even the n/a non mp3 ecu runs richer then its suppose to.

 

[IshSonP5]

wow.

I said above "NOT the mp3 ecu" as I know the timing IS advanced more on those ecu's which would just be hell on an msp. The stock ecu on a protege runs less advanced then an mp3 and less rich then an msp, would that not be a middle spot? If you have not done this or are speaking simply on the thought of it "just not working" I do believe you probably shouldn't be writing in this thread.

pull your head out of your ass.....please.....If you don't want everyone's response then don't come to a forum and ask. Putting an N/A ecu in your car would be idiotic. If you don't believe it, then stop asking questions, go ahead and do it and post back with your hazardous results. K? Cool.

 

[mikewashere]

you did it? no? lol then how do you guys know its so harmful?

an n/a ecu would lean out the map enough to fix some of the hiccups and I personally think it might just help, I'd love to go over it with a wide band hooked up and then on a msp to compare the a/f's. Just because it wasn't sold that way doesn't mean it won't work.

 

[Spiced MSP]

You aren't looking at the whole picture. N/A ECUs will lean out the mixture some. but thats not the problem. the mp3 ECU has a more advanced timing map. With a boosted car like the MSP, you want to retard timing as boost increases and then advance again. With the more advanced timing with the mp3 ECU , you will more than likely experience detonation as soon as you start boosting. Don't make that mistake. Keep the Msp ECU and tune with a piggyback. No need to question the guys response either. He gave you an honest answer, which is the truth. If you don't like the answer, don't post on the forum. You need to read up on the basics of tuning with a boosted car before you make a costly mistake and end up replacing your engine

wow.

I said above "NOT the mp3 ecu" as I know the timing IS advanced more on those ecu's which would just be hell on an msp. The stock ecu on a protege runs less advanced then an mp3 and less rich then an msp, would that not be a middle spot? If you have not done this or are speaking simply on the thought of it "just not working" I do believe you probably shouldn't be writing in this thread.

Ok, and I believe you need to go read up on tuning and learn a thing or two. If it was that simple to just swap ECUs and have a better tune, it would have been done years ago. You have to understand that NA ECUs maps are NOT beneficial past atmospheric pressure. As soon as your boost gauge hits 0 psi, that's it. Either way you go, you will need something to tune your maps in boost. It's not a matter of if someone has done it; nobody has. It makes no sense.

 

[tweety2300]

wow.

I said above "NOT the mp3 ecu" as I know the timing IS advanced more on those ecu's which would just be hell on an msp. The stock ecu on a protege runs less advanced then an mp3 and less rich then an msp, would that not be a middle spot? If you have not done this or are speaking simply on the thought of it "just not working" I do believe you probably shouldn't be writing in this thread.

Why can you not understand the point? The NA ecu will not know what to do when the turbo spools up and creates positive pressure it is either going to run so lean that it cracks pistons breaks ring landings or best case scenario will run so lean that it cuts fuel all together and won't allow it to run, it will not work, period, end of story. Why do you think the NA guys that go turbo get a freaking msp ecu or reflash. Or if they're on a budget get a headache tuning the stock ecu with an ssafc?

Quit being cheap and buy an ssafc or sell the car to someone that will properly take care of it and buy a civic

Ill give you one more example to understand this. An NA car sucks in air turbo car has air shoved into it. My 323 with a 1.6 gets more air shoved into it with a turbo smaller than the t25 than my mustang with a 5.0 is able to suck in. Obviously there is a huge difference in the amount of air going into an msp than there is with a regular protege

But it doesn't stop there, the maps are the same or close up to 2,000 rpms after that the turbo starts forcing air in which the ecu has to accommodate for via more fuel, but then once you're up to say 3-4k rpms you may be at partial throttle or wot in which the amount if boost could be 3 or 7 psi which there will be seperate maps for. The NA ecu has none of this and will only send fuel for what it thinks an NA protege will need that doesn't have all that air going into it

 

[Spiced MSP]

A turbo ecu doesnt retard timing then advance it again .. lol it just doesnt advance timing nearly as high as an n/a ecu. its a proven fact that even the n/a non mp3 ecu runs richer then its suppose to.

are you serious guy? Get a scan tool that is able to read live data and look at your timing as you start boosting. The stock tune retards timing, then advances again. It's common sense. You do the same thing when tuning with a standalone.

 

[mikewashere]

whose to say I mean if no ones done it and all. It is only 5-6psi I'm running and with a stock ecu your right it could break it, or possibly be what I'm after. The n/a fuel map v.s the extra air in from a msp on 5-6psi may just work fine.

 

[mikewashere]

are you serious guy? Get a scan tool that is able to read live data and look at your timing as you start boosting. The stock tune retards timing, then advances again. It's common sense. You do the same thing when tuning with a standalone.

didnt know that, thanks . I'll check it out with my scanner for sure

 

[tweety2300]

This type of person is why there are msps and 323 gtxs in junk yards. He will probly replace his blown motor with an fsze because Jdm is teh shiz nit

 

[tweety2300]

And btw pretty sure someone did a test on this years back, I think it was 3-4 psi with NA ecu that would run low 13s for afr. And by years pretty sure it was before 2006 I saw it awhile back when I was debating turbo ing my protege

 

[mikewashere]

gtx is a perfect example. can run a boosted setup on a bp on an n/a ecu and get away with it fine, no need for a gtx ecu. but on a msp its the end of the world lol

 

[mikewashere]

And btw pretty sure someone did a test on this years back, I think it was 3-4 psi with NA ecu that would run low 13s for afr. And by years pretty sure it was before 2006 I saw it awhile back when I was debating turbo ing my protege

sounds fine to me. stock these msp run up in 10.1 a/f at 4000rpm +