MSP VS. other wannabie's

tricky

Member
So recently there have been other cars released from various car makers, ex. the Saturn redline, Chevy cobalt, that scion whatever it's called, and maybe i'm missing some but has anyone out there went up against any of these? Just wondering how badly the MSP destroyed the competition. (enguard)

Opinions welcome.
 
well actually stock vs stock the cobalt and redline will beat a msp. They both run 14.7's at like 97mph. Those numbers are pretty good.

But they won't beat me as i'm not stock.

MSP>Scion TC
 
Yeah the scion Tc was a lot slower than I expected. But they might make a more powerfull version to close the gap cause I actually like the car.

And as Hook said both those cars do come with more power stock. They are more inbetween a SRT-4 and our cars in terms of straightline speeds. I've heard a lot of negative things about their handling, especially the Ion so I'm pretty sure the MSP still has its claim to fame there. But with a few mods you can close the gap easily, and I really do mean a few lol.
 
the scion tc with a turbo or the new trd supercharger will blow the msp. its sad but true. but i think the tc is ugly as sin so i dunno
 
yeah not every race is won off of the line, once you hit the first major corner the MSP shoots through to the lead. I love the handling of the MSP. so tight and clean
 
interesting question...

With the SRT4 the king of straight line speed, by a long shot, I'm not sure what I think of the rest of the bunch. The Saturn has nice seats, but the rest of the car is so cockeyed I have a hard time imagining why anyone would buy one. I personally like the overall look of the Cobalt, but the rims that are on the production model are ugly as hell (and 18" on any sport compact are too big for performance IMO). both cars offer a good amount of performance for the buck, and I'm intersted to see if GM will be giving away cobalts in a year like they do the Cavalier now. The Scion is nice looking, but it again is just a 2 door and with the supercharger it is pretty expensive considering I paid LESS for my new MSP than a new base Scion costs. Add $2500 in mods and my MSP is going to be pretty frickin' fast too. Hell add $2500 to just about any decent car and it will be fast. But then again Scion prices will drop soon enough too. I can't wait to see what Mazda does to the MS3 when it comes out though. Its a good time to be a young car guy...that's all I have to say.
 
blah everyone thinking is about straight line s*** which is what the MSP isnt suppose to do. Its what peopel mean when they say "fast." Although I think my car is "faster" then a top fuel drag car in a road racing course...lol. Whats the use in all that power when you have to break earlier? Breaking, throttle response, and balance is what makes a car fast in my opinion...much like a Ferrari Enzo, Porsche carrera GT, McLAren SLR (AMAZING BREAKS), Saleen S7, Koeinsegg CC8S and Lambo MErc...given that they only run 10-11s and only carry half the power of a 1000 hp supra...they are still a hell lot faster then a 1000 hp supra even though the supra may run 9s. Maybe its a hopeless cause to try and make us more into road racing rather then drag racing...everyone wants crazy amount of power even though it equates to spinnining hole into the ground. I think PAgani said it the best, "why would we want 800 hp when we already have wheel spin at 555 bhp?" (when asked about putting the new Mercedes V12 into the new Pagani Zonda)

Go buy a RWD, carborated, pushrod V8 if you want a proper drag racing muscle car. You'll trap higher with that extra torque.

Define "blow out of the water" are we just talking about 1/4 mile times, right? I just think a car has a steering wheel for a reason....do they not?

Let compare EVERYTHING like a Road and Track review. This means economy, handling, power, confort, looks and etc. The lower and "slower" car doesnt mean its slow by any means.

I've seen a TC take a corner at highspeeds...could have body rolled off the face of this earth...disgusting! But it is a nice car for the money...love those back seats and interior...and torquie engine! Best part everythign is warrentied by the factory (special kind of warrenty that you have to purchase). And since you have to buy the parts form the dealer they can charge whatever they want.

Just trying to prove my point htat HP sells and not handling. How many of you will take a Corvette over a Lotus Elise? Lotus only runs low 13s which the corvette is probally "faster" in terms of 1/4 mile times. Just trying to get the world to look beyond the quarter mile. in most places cars are measured by 0-60 and 60-0 times...not 1/4 mile and trap speed.
 
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Dude, I have beat on a Ion Redline and in no way is it faster than our cars. I know they are rated at 200 hp but every 1/4 mile time I've seen on paper shows mid to low 15s. The gearing sucks and it really handles like a bucket of s***. I was launching the car wayyyyyy harder than I would ever launch my car and it still felt a bit slower than a stock msp. The cobalt is the same crap, so I don't think it could impress me at all. GM is GM is GM....they all suck the same.
 
Also our cars are out of production. So comparing them to newer vehicles is a bad comparison.

Many compare the MSP to a SRT-4 although this is correct its not relevant unless its the 2003 SRT-4. Becaseu the MSP is a 2003 model. Point is when the SRT-4 came out it wasnt exactly a hot buy but since it was still a production car Dodge had time to improve upon it. Adding a new PCM and injectors (stage 1) and a badass LSD (Quaife ATB). But this was for the 2004 SRT-4 and the 2003 MSP were already gone. But for me, on paper the MSP was a better buy over the 2003 SRT-4.

Think in terms of the MP3 and MSP. When the MP3 came otu the protege was still a production car so Mazda had time to upgrade it, results were the MSP. Much like the difference between 2003 SRT-4 and 2004 SRT-4. So I wonder how what few more years of production would have done. Beecause the 2004 SRT-4 was improved even more for its last year of production with ACR SRT-4. What im trying to say its really not much of a comparision since the car industry advances and changes so fast.

But comparing newer car to an older car is not really relevant. For example a car might have direct injection making it more efficient. Somethign that a old protege design form the turn of the centry would not have.
 
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K-S-W said:
The MSP is not a bad buy for the money.

Yup not bad at all for $16,500! im happy with my purchase! Givent heres lack of hp and some inherrit problems...overall im happy. I look for good handling and fun to drive cars...not powerful cars. Mainly because it means more on insurence and a car is to get you form point A to point B. Daily driving means efficiency and more power means more gas. And think about what you save on insurence money. I try not to spend too much in my car because I know that one day I will trade it in or sell it. And god forbid if I invest a s*** load of money and get my car stolen or crashed...I would be tramatized. Thats why its relitiely staying stock. There are perks to driving a low powered car. $100 saved a month on insurence is a exta $1,200 in your bank account.
 
everyone is sooo worried about how fast their cars are compared to everyone elses, if you wanted a quarter mile dragsrer, you should not have bought an MSP. i love my car, hands down it's the ultimate driving experience, but reading a magazine with wa bunch of correction factor quarter mile times isn't the propper way to compare ANYTHING. go out and drive them. i've driven SRT-4 and a TC, the TC is slow and semi ugly IMO, the srt-4 is blinding fast, but also homeley and body rolls like a mustang. i'd take an MSP hands down, then again if you want your MSP to murder the competition, buy internals, emanage, and go with a little extra boost, you gotta pay to play, and it rocks when you see the look on the competition's face like "oh my god, i just got own3d by a protege"
 
well put spacemonkey. I just like hearing what others think of the competitors cars.

spacemonkey said:
Also our cars are out of production. So comparing them to newer vehicles is a bad comparison.

Many compare the MSP to a SRT-4 although this is correct its not relevant unless its the 2003 SRT-4. Becaseu the MSP is a 2003 model. Point is when the SRT-4 came out it wasnt exactly a hot buy but since it was still a production car Dodge had time to improve upon it. Adding a new PCM and injectors (stage 1) and a badass LSD (Quaife ATB). But this was for the 2004 SRT-4 and the 2003 MSP were already gone. But for me, on paper the MSP was a better buy over the 2003 SRT-4.

Think in terms of the MP3 and MSP. When the MP3 came otu the protege was still a production car so Mazda had time to upgrade it, results were the MSP. Much like the difference between 2003 SRT-4 and 2004 SRT-4. So I wonder how what few more years of production would have done. Beecause the 2004 SRT-4 was improved even more for its last year of production with ACR SRT-4. What im trying to say its really not much of a comparision since the car industry advances and changes so fast.

But comparing newer car to an older car is not really relevant. For example a car might have direct injection making it more efficient. Somethign that a old protege design form the turn of the centry would not have.
 
yeah its not hard to make a car go fast...just takes money. But I can tell you its easier to work on engine internals then trying to tune inherit flaws in the chasis....thus handling/response is usually the harder part to tune rather then tuning a engine with a proper EMU.

Think how lotus was able to design a chsis so stiff that sway bars are not needed. Think Ferrari and how they tune there suspention...the suspention on a ENzo is always compensating and changing as oppose to the engine.

There must be a million type os turns/corners. Off the top of my head corkscrews, hammer heads (induce understeer on FWD and AWD cars), hair pins, caricels, high banks, S-turns and etc.

how many types of strightaways are there? I rest my case!

And each of those turns a car handles differenly and a good tuner must adapt and chang (also know how the car is goign to react) in those situation. thats why suspention tunning is the key to winning real races, not power. think about F1 and who has the most power (BAR-HONDA)? And who actually wins all the races (Ferrari)? Also good drivers are tested in Corners because they have to know what the car is going to do in that corner and counter it. Look at F1 and look at the dashes on the steering wheel. They tune the suspention while going into the corner and in the corner...everythign form the LSD lock up, spring tention, ride hight and etc...while on the straightway there is only one tune...give it more gas.

I rather drive a car with low power and good suspetion then a high hp car with crappy suspentiuon tune. Because with the low HP, good suspention car its easy to add more power to the engine (turbo, internals EMU, fuel and etc). But in the high hp, low or mild suspention tuned its even harder. Just throwing in coilovers isnt suspention tunning at all. You have to worry about body rigidity and structural intgraty while going into corners.

Did you guys know a hardtop supra is actually worth more the the targa top supra? Why? Becasue the bodies structural integirty is stronger around corners which is they they are often the race preped supras (hard top).

Now the new pagani Zonda C12 is amazing they found a way to make a sypder version that has the same structural integrity as teh hard top...actually faster then the hard top.

boostisfun357 said:
well put spacemonkey. I just like hearing what others think of the competitors cars.

sorry, it just that people are too caught up in hp and 1/4 mile times. I get asked about it all the time. i"your car only has 170 hp turbocharged?" Then they drive it and they change their mind. It just dumb to judge a car only by HP #s and 1/4 mile times

GM is doing good since they focus alot on handling.. the new C6 corvette was tested in Germany Nurburgring alot. And they recently built a track to test there cars along with bringing test cars to Seabring and Mazda Leguna Seca to test out cars. The ECOtec is a good engine too...the 2.0L race spec ecotec has a reputation for power and willingness to rev. But I sill like my MSP and its been problem free at 20K miles.

I have video of the C6R beign tested out at Seabring...SICK. The only problem is they (GM racing) can benifit form a quick shifting gear box. But im sure the hardcore corvette guys are against any major changes in technology.

Back on topic...the cobolt isnt bad that would probally be my choice. Still has too much of a GM type look to it.
 
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spacemonkey said:
Now the new pagani Zonda C12 is amazing they found a way to make a sypder version that has the same structural integrity as teh hard top...actually faster then the hard top.

the 350z vert is also just as sturdy as the hardtop.
 
The Ion and Cobalt are a little faster than the MSP straight line. The Ion doesn't handle quite as well, I haven't seen as much on the Cobalt or if LSD will be an option - anyone know?

The Scion can't keep up either in acceleration or handling, but the TRD supercharger will make it quicker when its out. The Scion guys are dying for it to be released- it hasn't been yet. It still will need a bunch of suspension work to keep up with the MSP in corners. The warrantied and factory supported aftermarket program for this car is awesome, though. I love the idea of being able to mod the car and not have to deal with the warranty BS that comes along with. Of course, they only warranty it if its dealer installed (even TRD parts), so I see the potential for some battles brewing there.

The SE-R Spec V is still out there, a little faster around town with more low end, pretty much a dead heat in a straight line. Handles nearly as well, but a lot less forgiving at the limits.

RX-8's are going out the door now in the mid $22k range, which is what some folks paid for MSP's when they first came out. Think Mazda would trade me? Sure, if I threw in about $10k!
 
Is the TRD supercharger going to be an option on new cars, or just an aftermarket add-on?

Personally, I think I would go for an '05 Mustang GT. Different class, I know, but 25k MSRP. Also, I read on another forum that '04 GTO's are going for $22,000 out the door. 22k for a Corvette drivetrain! 350hp!!

Sorry, back to the discussion.
 
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