More reasons why I like this car

[Darth Vader]

I've been delving into a fair bit of mechanical work on this car, voluntarily, cuz I like to tweak stuff and improve performance and, what I love about this car is the triumph of sensible mechanical engineering it is. Nothing is made needlessly difficult, access is easy for most things, procedures are logical and require no special tools. It's fookin brilliant. Anybody with a modicum of automotive experience and a decent toolset can work on any system in this car without difficulty, even without a manual. My buddy's 135 BMW, on the other hand, seems to conspire with BMW mechanics to frustrate even the simplest tasks, with special tools, no access, stupidly complex procedures for simple things, etc.

The BMW's type of engineering is far more common these days than the actual practically-based mechanical engineering in this car. Most stuff goes straight from the computer screen to the production line. Real modelling, testing, etc. is too expensive and, the assumption is made, not entirely without evidence, that the consumer is a mechanical idiot and should not be trusted with anything on the product.

 

[coyfish]

I think the mazda is average. Its not "hard" to work on but I wouldn't call it easy either. Glad you like it though.

 

[s-retire]

Based on a misguided belief I was obtaining service that would protect my warranty, I have always preferred to have the dealer do all the service work while the car is still under warranty.

Since the warranty ran out on my BMW Z3 (E36/) four years ago I've done all the service and inspection work and a lot of suspension modification to make the car handle even better. Now the car has 185,000 miles and I don’t have any of the issues you mention with my BMW. Although, some people claim the E36/7 is arguably the poorest engineering feat of BMW in recent history. I don't think so.

My STOCK 2008 Speed 3 is a different story. With 3,607 miles on the odometer it is sitting in my driveway, a lifeless hulk with a broken rod, a hole in the block and Mazda NAO making me drag them to court to get them to honor the warranty.

Just my experience.

 

[Darth Vader]

You can't even check the oil on the 135. You can't use a standard floor jack to put on your own snow tires. The old Z3 is a Model T of simplicity by comparison. Twin turbos, DI, 4 million sensors, an even more inscrutable ECU than the Mazda one, it kind of puts me off, even though it is a brilliant little car as it sits.

I understand you're bitter with Mazdza, based on what has happened to you. Of all the people in the ZZB club, I think your story about engine failure has the greatest credibility and it's a shame Mazda NAO has taken the line it has with you. I'll be unhappy if my engine totals itself as well but, the car is still easy to work on, for a modern vehicle with all its attendant complexities. It's hardly more difficult than working on my old 5.0, which WAS a Model T, lol

 

[coyfish]

Based on a misguided belief I was obtaining service that would protect my warranty, I have always preferred to have the dealer do all the service work while the car is still under warranty.

Since the warranty ran out on my BMW Z3 (E36/) four years ago I've done all the service and inspection work and a lot of suspension modification to make the car handle even better. Now the car has 185,000 miles and I dont have any of the issues you mention with my BMW. Although, some people claim the E36/7 is arguably the poorest engineering feat of BMW in recent history. I don't think so.

My STOCK 2008 Speed 3 is a different story. With 3,607 miles on the odometer it is sitting in my driveway, a lifeless hulk with a broken rod, a hole in the block and Mazda NAO making me drag them to court to get them to honor the warranty.

Just my experience.

Sorry for what you have to go through. But when you look at a car you have to look at the big picture. There are cars with over 150K miles of basically everybrand and make. My dad owned a BMW that brough nothing but trouble with under 50K miles. That doesn't mean the car in general was bad. He just got a "lemon." Not every car is created equal unfortunately.

 

[s-retire]

You can't even check the oil on the 135.

The oil level is checked with an electronic sensor. You realize that motor vehicles have become considerably more complex in the last several years.

Granted the BMW has a complicated procedure to check tranny fluid, but it is most likely as you state due to the limited ability of many owners and drivers.
- Many of the large commercial trucks incorporate level sensors and dash indicators to show coolant, oil, windshield washer fluid and more. Those are vehicles intended to be operated by professionals. Even my Chevy work car has an indicator for low washer fluid.
- Alison automatics have used electronic sensors to indicate fluid level for two decades now.
As time goes on you will see more of these types of changes. Shoot you dont even need a key to unlock the car door.

Twin turbos, DI, 4 million sensors, an even more inscrutable ECU than the Mazda one, it kind of puts me off, even though it is a brilliant little car as it sits.

Yes the BMW 135 is a brilliant machine! and Of course it uses many more sensors. The operation is far more sophisticated. BMW abandoned the single VVT for both cam VVT several years ago. I believe they have also adopted variable valve lift and duration and the twin turbo is a proven concept. The result is a torque curve that gives 300lb/ft from about 1,500 rpm on up. There is a whole lot less to be done to make it better.

I think your story about engine failure has the greatest credibility and it's a shame Mazda NAO has taken the line it has with you.

I hope you realize that if NAO is willing to treat me in this egregious fashion, I'm willing to bet that in the scores of denied warranty reported on this board and others, several other denials are also unfounded. Just take a look at what is reported with an open mind.

Sorry for what you have to go through. But when you look at a car you have to look at the big picture.

Why would you want to insult my ability to perceive? I haven't knocked the car at all. In fact I see any car producing close to 100hp/l as a pretty impressive piece of engineering. I'd even expect and understand that, by its very nature, the car be somewhat more trouble prone, but from the way I see it, the warranty support from NAO has reduced to value of the marque considerably.

There are cars with over 150K miles of basically everybrand and make.

You mean like my:
86 Olds -- 198,000 before it got hit by a street racer.
96 Geo -- 173,000 before a piston cracked.
and the rebuilt Windsor in my 40 Ford still running strong with over 300k

2008 Speed3 -- POS @ 3,607 miles. and It isn't the car's fault!

I think the mazda is average.

Better in some ways, worse in others.

Glad you like it though.

Well said. Enjoy your cars. I hope it serves you well.

 

[vtakk]

this reminds me when a friend of mine came for help installing cargo net in his 08 accord.
when I stripped few covers down I found a plug which can be attached using special bolt.
To unscrew one you need special honda tool. Even installation instructions showed that little bastard )) WTF? now go to stealership and pay for ridiculous hourly rate just to have your f**king cargo net in.. OMG I missed those times when you can strip down all your car down with few simple tools

 

[coyfish]

Not sure why you thought I insulted your "ability to percieve" . . . your first post didnt say anything but . . . "my car blew up and im frustrated." Rightfully so but thats why I wrote my post.

 

[Darth Vader]

Your post seems a bit touchy, man, I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm actually trying to be supportive. I do realise many things. I've been working on cars since the days of points, unsuppressed ignition wires and crashboxes. I've watched develop and worked on every kind of automotive technology you can imagine.

...and I mean you can't check the ENGINE oil on the 135, not the trans fluid. There are some basic maintenance checks that should not just be left to the "professionals", in my humble opinion. Not every solution actually has a problem behind it.

 

[eg6motion]

You mean like my:
86 Olds -- 198,000 before it got hit by a street racer.
96 Geo -- 173,000 before a piston cracked.
and the rebuilt Windsor in my 40 Ford still running strong with over 300k

2008 Speed3 -- POS @ 3,607 miles. and It isn't the car's fault!

it's a POS, yet it isn't.... I wonder how many engines survive with no oil... You def have a bad situation, but it really has nothing to do with his topic, it wasn't a reliability failure, it was a human failure, one that corporate Mazda is ignoring sadly.

 

[s-retire]

Touchy? It isn't often I'm called that, but if..

that is what you see. I understand

Your post seems a bit touchy, man, I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm actually trying to be supportive.

I'm not pissed at your or coyfish's comments. I definitely appreciate the support.

Two points to start off: 1. It seems I have hyjacked your thread. I don't want to do that. 2. I disagree with your original premise.

As a rule modern automotive equipment is far more complex than the vehicles of the past. If one is willing to work to competently learn the systems of today's cars the differences between makes is comparatively slight and usually related to the level of the technology employed.

Mazda also has a list of special service tools.

...and I mean you can't check the ENGINE oil on the 135, not the trans fluid.

Yes, I brought up the trany oil. It has been a point of contention with home mechanics for years.

There are some basic maintenance checks that should not just be left to the "professionals", in my humble opinion.

I had many years of experience overseeing heavy vehicle operations and coordinating maintenance. It is a sad truth, but dash mounted fluid level idiot lights are the only way many people will keep track of fluid levels.

Not every solution actually has a problem behind it.

This one does. There is a value to dumbing down fluid level checks for many vehicle operators.

Not sure why you thought I insulted your "ability to percieve" . . .

Didn't you suggest I hadn't yet looked at the big picture?

it's a POS, yet it isn't....

Very nice placement of the bold text in the quote. I wish I had done that myself. IT ISN'T A FAULT OF THE CAR

I wonder how many engines survive with no oil...

Here you make the same mistaken assumption as Mazda NAO. If the drain plug fell out, how did that cause the rod to break in the middle without also causing any significant sign of oil starvation?

You def have a bad situation, but it really has nothing to do with his topic, it wasn't a reliability failure, it was a human failure, one that corporate Mazda is ignoring sadly.

You're right on several points. If you wish to discuss my situation further, please pick it up in the thread I started. http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123730901

Sorry about the hyjack.

 

[Darth Vader]

There is value in providing redundancy. Dumbing down servicing is ok, as long as you don't eliminate alternate forms of monitoring. What if the bulb burns out? This type of oversight on a mission-critical element wouldn't be acceptable in say, the aviation world, why here? Aircraft are still dip-tested for fuel level, for example, largely due to the Gimli Glider incident.

Mazda's list of specialty tools is shorter than BMWs and alot of them just make a job a little easier and aren't mission-critical to the performance of the job.

Now, I must say that my friend reports fantastic service quality at the BMW dealership. He feels very well looked after and has no complaints. He coundn't say the same about the service received at the Mazda dealership when he owned a Speed3. I think that might be because BMW doesn't sub-contract their maintenance work out within the dealership. The service dept. is more truly part of the entire experience of buying the BMW, which you pay for up front in the cost of the car.

the sub-contracting of service work is a disease affecting most vehicle manufacturers customer satisfaction. Because the service dept. has little vested interest in the customer's initial satisfaction with the purchase (it's a done deal and they receive no incentives from it), they deal with any initial sale service issues as a simple bill-out to the sales dept. and don't rush or sweat the details too hard. Later issues are just dealt with individually without thought to the greater context of the customer's experience.

 

[Saskatchewan17]

I think the MS3 is fairly user friendly when it comes to tinkering around under the hood. Space is a tad bit tight (especially back at the manifold/dp section) but it's easy to check fluids and do maintanence and whatnot.

 

[Dano2010]

Based on a misguided belief I was obtaining service that would protect my warranty, I have always preferred to have the dealer do all the service work while the car is still under warranty.

Since the warranty ran out on my BMW Z3 (E36/) four years ago I've done all the service and inspection work and a lot of suspension modification to make the car handle even better. Now the car has 185,000 miles and I dont have any of the issues you mention with my BMW. Although, some people claim the E36/7 is arguably the poorest engineering feat of BMW in recent history. I don't think so.

My STOCK 2008 Speed 3 is a different story. With 3,607 miles on the odometer it is sitting in my driveway, a lifeless hulk with a broken rod, a hole in the block and Mazda NAO making me drag them to court to get them to honor the warranty.

Just my experience.

this is very curious to me what are your mods? I know i'll get flamed for not "searching" but is there a thread on here of cooked MZRs with their mods when they went boom! I am hearning a little knock/click deep in my motor at times discussed on another thread and am afraid it could be a rod about to let go.

 

[s-retire]

this is very curious to me what are your mods?

Box STOCK = no mods. I did however, buy an aftermarket car cover.

 

[Dano2010]

very sorry to hear about the story man... I should prob move this to another thread but was it cyl #3 that let go? That does seem to be a pattern and the weakest link in the MZR. If Im not mistaken it is also where the balance shaft is located as well so Mazda knows there is a harmonics issue here.

 

[coyfish]

this is very curious to me what are your mods? I know i'll get flamed for not "searching" but is there a thread on here of cooked MZRs with their mods when they went boom! I am hearning a little knock/click deep in my motor at times discussed on another thread and am afraid it could be a rod about to let go.

You should do a compression test to check for a bent rod . . .

 

[Dano2010]

PM Sent

don't want to continue the thread hijack ;-)