Massive smoking issue & crappy idle - after major "improvement" 2003 Mazda Protege :(

I went the valve seal route, because oil would get into my cylinders while the car sits and cools down.

Could oil make its way up through the the rings with the car off while it cools down?

Is there a vacuum in the cylinder that could suck the oil up? That explains why I get less oil when accumulation when I remove the plugs while hot.

Can rings fail on one cylinder only? I done a compression test and everything seemed to be fine. I'll look into the leak down test too.
 
The minimal amount of oil left in the cylinder from a valve seal burns up within 2-3 seconds of running. If you have smoking that lasts much longer than that, it's likely to be from the oil rings failing to seal until the engine is hot.

This is a side profile of the piston in my oil burner. It ran really well, and passed a compression test with flying colors, but would block out the sun with smoke for a good 5 minutes when you started it in the morning, and would burn a quart in 2-300 miles.


The Toyota 1ZZ 4 cylinder has a similar problem, but the drain-back holes in the piston clog with carbon. I think these just lose tension and fail to scrape the cylinder wall like they should.
 
Hi MrGiggles,

I think you have me convinced, also i did a test this morning i checked my cylinder#4 when cold and it was oily but nothing too bad. like you said would probably just burn off in the first few seconds. started the car and got a massive smoke show again. I turned the car off before the smoke had cleared and checked the cylinder again and it was full of oil. I checked the other cylinders and they were all oily too, not as bad as #4 but enough to think the wear is consistent, at least with the first 3.

So the question is, Replace or Repair?
 
Yup - I'm convinced. I'm most definitely blocking out the sun - people stare when I drive by and I don't think they're admiring my rooftop accessories and fancy lights.... ;) I've also noticed people stop two car lengths behind too... I did seem to make a minor reduction in consumption/smoke with the PCV valve test delete, but the problem is by no means gone.

I'm starting to price out head/engine rebuild options - certainly the Mazda parts are a bit scary. What are your thoughts on the quick and dirty ring job on-car? I'll check into local head rebuild options (found two so far) but any online sources for rebuild/parts, particularly those with FS experience, tech specs and good reputation would be appreciated.

Still looking for pictures of FS teardown rebuild if anyone knows any links....

Thanks!
 
Thanks for the thread link - those were great pictures! I just got off the phone with Lordco Machine shop and the fellow I spoke with agrees the oil is most likely burning from the pistons/rings and/or valve guides. Apparently my theory is correct and the valve guides can become unseated/loose in the head. I'm still looking into options but I am thinking of pulling the head assembly and dropping it off for them to check the valve condition/clearance, valve guides and for level/condition etc. Then maybe do the pistons/rings etc. myself if I can find some cash and a garage/shed to work out of.

Yeah, a couple of the comments you made about the receipt of the JDM engine gave me pause - as well as the fact that it will be a used engine from an unknown source (overseas - with little if any history/intel) and modifications required for full benefit is more than I think I'm willing to experiment with at the moment. I would prefer to have my solid car back, and then focus on maybe modding header/exhaust/intake.
 
They are a mixed bag, that's for sure.

I don't know what you're equipped with, but the amount of time required to pull the whole engine/trans is not much longer when compared to rolling around on the ground replacing the rings with the engine in the car.

With the engine out, you can assess all of your motor mounts easily including the rear one, and also replace the clutch if it's very old. Everything is 100 times easier to do with the engine on a stand.
 
LostinCanada said:
What are your thoughts on the quick and dirty ring job on-car?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

I would like to hear from someone that has done this too. I'm not thinking long term just enough to get me through the winter. Otherwise I'm going to drop in another engine. A local wrecker has one with 144k on it for $800. I can prob pick it up myself and an engine hoist is only $30 a day to rent.

If I put a new (salvage) engine in, I'll probably keep the car as I am quite fond of my little yellow P5.
 
I posted in your other thread as well, but I'll ask again. What city are you in?

I've rebuilt a few FS engines now, and I have a plethora of stock parts like brand new pistons, rings, etc. If you're interested, in either the parts or the labor, let me know.
 
My gut is to overhaul this engine because in general I know what I have - the car seems to have been looked after. Clutch seems to be in excellent shape and all my engine mounts except the really annoying rear one are new this year. I'm stumped on the lower 10mm nut for the electrical bracket - even having the throttle body and IM didn't help with that one. Then last night I was randomly reading through old threads on this forum and one guy was giving another a hard time over his issues with the same nut and said he was able to get it off easily with a 10mm deep socket. I swear I couldn't get one on there but maybe I just didn't try hard enough. I agree, pulling the engine completely out would be ideal - but first I need to find a location where I can do that, one that is not time sensitive or $$$.
 
I'm in Revelstoke BC, I would definitely be interested in some parts if i got that route.

What's the minimum amount of work you could do replacing the rings and subsequent results.
 
Bentaylor said:
I'm in Revelstoke BC, I would definitely be interested in some parts if i got that route.

What's the minimum amount of work you could do replacing the rings and subsequent results.
Click to expand...

Pop the pistons out, break the glaze in the cylinders with a ball hone, clean ring grooves and install new rings, then reassemble. The success of this depends on the wear in the bores (probably minimal) and condition of rod bearings.

At the very least check the ring end-gap and plastigauge the rod bearings before going back together. Checking ring end gap will give you an idea of bore wear without an expensive bore gauge. Plastigauge is for measuring the oil clearance between the crank and rod bearings.

If the crank is damaged or the bores are worn excessively the engine will have to come out for machine work, this is another reason to just pull the whole engine, if unexpected damage or wear is encountered, you are better prepared to remedy the situation.
 
Last edited:
Bentaylor said:
I'm in Revelstoke BC, I would definitely be interested in some parts if i got that route.

What's the minimum amount of work you could do replacing the rings and subsequent results.
Click to expand...

At the absolute bare minimum, you would need new piston rings and engine seal kit. That's provided that everything else is in useable condition. You will also need some machine work on the engine, such as cylinder honing and head / block decking. That is at the absolute minimum, again provided that all of your bearings, etc are in suitable condition and don't need to be replaced.
 
@McGiggles, I already priced out rings from Mazda, but the Lordco guy was saying they would be too hard and better to go with aftermarket options - less problems seating and less break-in period. Thoughts on this?
 
Maxx Mazda said:
At the absolute bare minimum, you would need new piston rings and engine seal kit. That's provided that everything else is in useable condition. You will also need some machine work on the engine, such as cylinder honing and head / block decking. That is at the absolute minimum, again provided that all of your bearings, etc are in suitable condition and don't need to be replaced.
Click to expand...

If that's the minimum then might as well do everything else. What rebuild kits would you recommend?
 
Rockauto sells a complete DNJ rebuild kit which includes pistons, rings, and all gaskets and seals for $345 CAD. Add to that a timing belt kit and new oil and water pump, you will basically have a brand new engine.
 
Maxx Mazda said:
Rockauto sells a complete DNJ rebuild kit which includes pistons, rings, and all gaskets and seals for $345 CAD. Add to that a timing belt kit and new oil and water pump, you will basically have a brand new engine.
Click to expand...

My timing belt and water pump are only 50K km old anyways. This all sounds fun, what can i **** up?

Should I get oversized components or standard?
 
Depends on the condition of your crank, rod ends, cylinders, etc. Do you need the crank turned down? If so, how many thousandths? Do the cylinders need to be bored, or will a hone suffice.

You can't just slap in some new bearings onto a worn crank, you need to have it polished at the bare minimum or your nice new bearings won't last you a tank of gas. Any nearby machine shop will be able to perform these services for you relatively cheap.
 
Please log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Violent Sound from Valve Cover Area (2003 Protege5)
Replies
3
Views
1K
MuffinMan06
MuffinMan06
T
Rough Idle, Loss of Power and No CEL (2003 Protege5) - Solved!
Replies
15
Views
6K
BenjiHoggi
BenjiHoggi
C
EGR Flow Insufficient - Protege5 2003 - P0401
Replies
5
Views
4K
roddster67
R

Latest posts

Back