MAF relocated

[genius]

I know the MAF doesn't take input directly from the IAT, but how are you so sure that the ECU does not use both MAF and IAT in it's air/fuel calculations, without knowing exactly how it was programmed?

And are you sure the hot wire only goes to 200 F? That seems kinda low. I bet you could get temps over that with a heatsoaked stock intercooler and some upped boost. Ideal gas law says temps would be 427 F(pre-intercooler) at 10psi on a 90 F summer day. I wonder what the **** happens when the MAF sees the wire getting hotter than 200 F without aplying any current.
That 427 F is even assuming the turbo is 100% efficient, which it's not, so temps would be higher...

I might be off on teh 200 F... it has been a while since I have ever done research to that depth, but I think I am right on that.

The ECU is a standard Ford computer. Their architecture is pretty much the same across the board. Now fair warning, my memory is really sketchy on this one... Fuel control is based on engine load vs RPM. Load is based on air flow vs. ECT vs. pulse width base factor. Base factor is based on avg. O2 vs. EGT this is where the learning comes into play.

Now could Mazda have circumvented this? Sure. But we will never be able to find out since the firmware is encrypted. But we do know that the DSM Convert SS AFC works. And that does not intercept the IAT.

Consider how little thought was placed in building the car with the spongy engine mounts and bushings, plastic piping and an intercooler mounted right next to the radiator, I just can't imagine that they would have placed very much emphasis on adding an additional table just for the IAT to control fuel injection.

My 2 c.

 

[peepsalot]

Not so sure on the 427 F figure. Without 'actually' doing the math and taking the loser aproach via http://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm (Funny thing is I am a math major ;P), It would be in the ball park of 240 - 290 given an average operating enviroment pre IC with a moderatly efficiant compressor. Even if your IC had a really crappy efficiancy (Anything above 40%) the temps would be under 200F. I also would guess the stock piping would reach its deflection point before 427 F though (I have nothing to back that up other than a general idea of the materials) and lots up people run 8-9 psi on the stock setup (Springing the WG actuator or a MBC). Even if it was 427 F, a IC with an efficiancy similar to the kits we are using would get temps down below 200 F

s***. I guess I might have botched that calculation. Man, I used to be good at this crap too. (headshake Any idea what the real equation to use would be?

 

[byohndspeed]

in a month or so i will be able to tell ya what kind of change it does make. i have a wideband sitting here that i just havent had time to install. once i get it installed i can check it both ways.. i will let everyone know when the time comes.

 

[genius]

in a month or so i will be able to tell ya what kind of change it does make. i have a wideband sitting here that i just havent had time to install. once i get it installed i can check it both ways.. i will let everyone know when the time comes.

You just have one "lying around" and whenever you get a chance you will install it? LMAO!!!!!

That's awesome. Here I am trying to do research before buying one and when I do, I will be taking vacaction time right as FedEx comes to my door just to install it. I will even have a baby sitter on standby waiting to take care of my baby while the mother is out just so I can install it immediately. And someone on here happens to just have one just laying under his pillow! LOL!

Seriously, I will be sub'd waiting for your results. If there is a change of any more than 5 hp; I will make it my first priority to appoligize to all that I lied to and then do a massive research to figure out why. My guess, you will see a 2 ~ 5 HP jump in the lower middle range but the rest should be unaffected.

 

[jlindbo]

s***. I guess I might have botched that calculation. Man, I used to be good at this crap too. (headshake Any idea what the real equation to use would be?

The overall process is desribed pretty well here (http://www.stealth316.com/2-adiabat1.htm). Additional research could be done to validate some of his assumptions but his figures were in line with what I would have expected

 

[jlindbo]

in a month or so i will be able to tell ya what kind of change it does make. i have a wideband sitting here that i just havent had time to install. once i get it installed i can check it both ways.. i will let everyone know when the time comes.

Excellent, I was planning on buying one of these as well. Looking forward to the results.

 

[Bala]

Excellent, I was planning on buying one of these as well. Looking forward to the results.

********** is having a GB on the AEM right now. I picked one up here:https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)
before I knew of it - also a great price.

 

[byohndspeed]

yeah i have a wb, dsm's afc, and an intake manifold that need to be put on. i have been busy opening a car audio store. so, those were just put on the back burner. yeah i would guess only a few hp in the lower end. but the smothness that came with the moving of the iat was worth it.

 

[Bala]

yeah i have a wb, dsm's afc, and an intake manifold that need to be put on. i have been busy opening a car audio store. so, those were just put on the back burner. yeah i would guess only a few hp in the lower end. but the smothness that came with the moving of the iat was worth it.

How did you seal the IAT on the cold pipe? I'm guessing it took more than the factory grommet?

 

[byohndspeed]

ok this is what i did. first off on the hiboost kit, the one bend is made from mild steel. i took a 1 1/8" diameter bolt and cut about 1 inch off the threaded end. drilled the center out so the sensor would fit through. then took the matching nut and welded a big washer on for a flange. drilled the washer out so it would fit the sensor through. then welded the bolt to the pipe and drilled through in the pipe. then i took a rubber o-ring and used that as a gasket, then just screwed it together. oh yeah, i also had to cut the nut down alittle.

 

[Bala]

Thanks for the images ... good job!

 

[SergMSP]

I am thinking about the best placement for the air temp sensor as well (anyone?). My plan is to cut a section of tubing out of my Perrin cold pipe about 12" upstream from the BOV and mount my MAF here. The cut out section of pipe will then fill the gap left in my Injen Intake. I'll be running an MPI with extra injectors so I need to mount these before the TB as well. Soo ... air temp sensor in Intake, loose or somehow mounted in cold pipe (yikes, I'm thinking boost leak issues)?

How about getting a filter witha hole already made for the IAT sensor?:
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/Mazda/Protege/AEM/Intakes/Air_Filters
If AEM is making them like this there it should be cool...:
Universal
2.75" Short Neck 5" Element w/ hole for ait sensor #172135
53.69 38.66

 

[j1racer]

I have a question and it may be dumb or it may have been answered but do you need a afc to relocate you maf or will the computer still dump enough fuel into my engine?

 

[speedcicle]

I have a question and it may be dumb or it may have been answered but do you need a afc to relocate you maf or will the computer still dump enough fuel into my engine?

You don't need an afc to relocate. Actually it would help your air fuel ratio. But i would suggest some sort of engine management with any mods or if you are running a higher boost. It's just the right thing to do. Look into the split second afc by dsm convert if you want quality at a good price.

 

[smo0f]

You don't need an afc to relocate. Actually it would help your air fuel ratio. But i would suggest some sort of engine management with any mods or if you are running a higher boost. It's just the right thing to do. Look into the split second afc by dsm convert if you want quality at a good price.

afc is fuel management not engine management

 

[speedcicle]

afc is fuel management not engine management

Afc is engine management, It controls the air fuel to keep the ratio where it is supposed to be. Avoiding being lean or rich. Therfore it is a basic form of engine managment. Same thing as the unichip. It is also engine management. The only other function that it controls is timing which the original split second does not but version 2 does.