Arlington, TX. Let me clarify that I'm building Honda, Nissan and Mitsu motors mostly. I do have a Protege motor I'm building for my personal car, but at work, we're not building Protege motors on a weekly basis.
k1 rods/wiseco pistons
- Thread starter Protege5 Driver
- Start date
Arlington, TX. Let me clarify that I'm building Honda, Nissan and Mitsu motors mostly. I do have a Protege motor I'm building for my personal car, but at work, we're not building Protege motors on a weekly basis.
Mazdaspeed2oo35
600whp - 600wtq at 30 PSI
Well, i havent dyno the car recently but, the last dyno the car did 372whp at 15 psi on pump gas. after that dyno i have added 1000cc injectors, SR Adjustable cam gears, Methanol Injection, and raise the boost from 15 psi to 28 psi and a more aggressive street tune. guesstimating until i dyno the car again i assume im putting between 465whp -500whp also on pump gas + Methanol Injection.
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SeR_Cyclops
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed Protege
get it dynoed!
Myth:
K1 rods aren't strong enough
Fact:
Unless you are making well over 500hp, k1's in the stock length will hold up.
RPM is the killer of rods not the power level. It is a strong H beam design.
"The connecting rod is under tremendous stress from the reciprocating load represented by the piston, actually stretching and relaxing with every rotation, and the load increases rapidly with increasing engine speed."
Myth:
Running lower compression is better.
Fact:
When you drop compression ratio you can run more boost and more ignition advance into boost at a trade off at less power production. Alternatively, you can also raise the knock limit on motors when you change the air flow characteristics of the motor through head work and less restrictive manifolds.
Choosing a compression ratio isn't about running a ton of boost. The right compression ratio is one that works efficiently for your application's intended use and the desired power band. You must also take into account the turbo's efficiency and which boost pressure is in its sweet spot on the compressor map. For example, if you have a low comp motor able to run 25 psi but your turbo efficiency is 20 psi. This is a waste as I see many people running like this. You would have a more responsive and powerful motor if you had picked the right compression for the turbo you plan on using. You want to run on the low end of the turbo efficiency limit on pump gas, so it gives you head room to run race gas or other higher octane alternatives at more boost.
Myth:
Running more boost is better and I'll be faster.
Fact:
First, anything over 250 whp, the handling in this car will be harder to control because of tire spin and torque steer. You will only be faster in a straight line in the higher gears. Second, you can make the same power at less boost. Example would be if you make 300 hp at 16 psi on 9:0 compression or 300 hp at 23 psi on 8.5:1 compression, running the lower boost pressure will be more efficient and less stress on the engine.
Myth:
Brand A piston is better than Brand B because of the compression ratio
Fact:
Comp ratios don't make one piston better than another as they can be made to any comp ratio you want. What you need to do is compare the metal alloy used, machined finish quality, and features such as: friction coatings, balancing, and piston rings and wrist pin and lock design.
K1 rods aren't strong enough
Fact:
Unless you are making well over 500hp, k1's in the stock length will hold up.
RPM is the killer of rods not the power level. It is a strong H beam design.
"The connecting rod is under tremendous stress from the reciprocating load represented by the piston, actually stretching and relaxing with every rotation, and the load increases rapidly with increasing engine speed."
Myth:
Running lower compression is better.
Fact:
When you drop compression ratio you can run more boost and more ignition advance into boost at a trade off at less power production. Alternatively, you can also raise the knock limit on motors when you change the air flow characteristics of the motor through head work and less restrictive manifolds.
Choosing a compression ratio isn't about running a ton of boost. The right compression ratio is one that works efficiently for your application's intended use and the desired power band. You must also take into account the turbo's efficiency and which boost pressure is in its sweet spot on the compressor map. For example, if you have a low comp motor able to run 25 psi but your turbo efficiency is 20 psi. This is a waste as I see many people running like this. You would have a more responsive and powerful motor if you had picked the right compression for the turbo you plan on using. You want to run on the low end of the turbo efficiency limit on pump gas, so it gives you head room to run race gas or other higher octane alternatives at more boost.
Myth:
Running more boost is better and I'll be faster.
Fact:
First, anything over 250 whp, the handling in this car will be harder to control because of tire spin and torque steer. You will only be faster in a straight line in the higher gears. Second, you can make the same power at less boost. Example would be if you make 300 hp at 16 psi on 9:0 compression or 300 hp at 23 psi on 8.5:1 compression, running the lower boost pressure will be more efficient and less stress on the engine.
Myth:
Brand A piston is better than Brand B because of the compression ratio
Fact:
Comp ratios don't make one piston better than another as they can be made to any comp ratio you want. What you need to do is compare the metal alloy used, machined finish quality, and features such as: friction coatings, balancing, and piston rings and wrist pin and lock design.
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SeR_Cyclops
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed Protege
nice..... and this is someone who knows!
Protege5 Driver
Member
- :
- mazda protege 5
i will be...someday soon
arlsmazdaspeed
Member
I will be picking mine up friday to bring home... I stopped by today to take her for a ride, and she rides nice. I didn't want to go into boost since it was just started up a couple of hours earlier. I don't mean to thread jack.. I'm running wiseco/k1 combo, with 9:0 comp. and bored .030 over. fully balnced motor and ported head.
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did you get custom Wisecos? off the shelf they come in stock bore, .020 and .040" over...
EDIT: you said .30" over which I hope is a mistake because there's no way in hell you're opening the cylinder bores by over a quarter of an inch.
EDIT: you said .30" over which I hope is a mistake because there's no way in hell you're opening the cylinder bores by over a quarter of an inch.
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Wiseco or any other piston mfg don't make a .30 over bore. The shelf Wisecos are .020, and .040 tops. .30 is a little big.
Also, this should be added.
Myth:
A built motor with forged internals is bullet proof, and I can throw as much boost and make insane power w/o it breaking.
Fact:
If you make a lot of power, you will break stuff eventually.
The machine work, assembly of the parts, tuning, fuel demand, maintenance, user conditions will all determine how long and how strong your motor will be. Even if everything was put together right, a bad tune will blow a built motor in seconds.
Also, this should be added.
Myth:
A built motor with forged internals is bullet proof, and I can throw as much boost and make insane power w/o it breaking.
Fact:
If you make a lot of power, you will break stuff eventually.
The machine work, assembly of the parts, tuning, fuel demand, maintenance, user conditions will all determine how long and how strong your motor will be. Even if everything was put together right, a bad tune will blow a built motor in seconds.
interesting topic and I'd ask this:
what compression ratio is good for whp range ??
what k1 + A brand piston compression ratio + psi# will work for what whp range ??
what Pauter + A brand piston compression ratio + psi# will work for what whp range??
Is there any math that shows what compression/piston + psi# combo works and what doesn't ??
To back-up pro's and con's , there should be some kind of validity through math ? since most debate based on experience but then again everyone has different experience and knowledge and view on how things should be handled so ............
My case for ex: I'm looking at getting 400whp and i'm looking at getting pouters since i've seen K1 fail for some reasons. using GT3071R and looking some like ~25psi or something so one vendor has told me 8.0:1 would be the right choice but then again some other ppl say stick w/ 8.5:1 compression , not to name who said this or that but i'm not certified or have enough knowledge when it comes to compression matching w/ PSI and all the shebang.
How would say "me/anyone" know for sure which compression ratio will be good for my case or any case for that matter ?
what compression ratio is good for whp range ??
what k1 + A brand piston compression ratio + psi# will work for what whp range ??
what Pauter + A brand piston compression ratio + psi# will work for what whp range??
Is there any math that shows what compression/piston + psi# combo works and what doesn't ??
To back-up pro's and con's , there should be some kind of validity through math ? since most debate based on experience but then again everyone has different experience and knowledge and view on how things should be handled so ............
My case for ex: I'm looking at getting 400whp and i'm looking at getting pouters since i've seen K1 fail for some reasons. using GT3071R and looking some like ~25psi or something so one vendor has told me 8.0:1 would be the right choice but then again some other ppl say stick w/ 8.5:1 compression , not to name who said this or that but i'm not certified or have enough knowledge when it comes to compression matching w/ PSI and all the shebang.
How would say "me/anyone" know for sure which compression ratio will be good for my case or any case for that matter ?
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arlsmazdaspeed
Member
Sorry guys, I meant .020 bore is what my motor has. sorry for the confusion.
2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
Really? what are you going to do about your transmission?
Yup- K1 long rods, cp 8.5:1 pistons. 27k on the clock. 13-14psi on meth and nitromethane. Stock turbo, stock catback and intake 244whp/263tq.
2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
nice
2.0t03speed
Member
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
you know i will be soon
shane02pro5
25ish_psi
- :
- New Caney TX
I think most with built motors are daily drivers.
I'm pretty sure pauter and arias were the most commonly used due to availability in most of the early built motors.
I'm pretty sure pauter and arias were the most commonly used due to availability in most of the early built motors.
I'm getting the K1 and Wiseco package from Crossover as well and will be driving a built motor daily once she gets all put back together.
