Engine Clatter

[Heaths]

Ok guys i'm really needing help with this one, Ive got a 2009 cx-9 that has an engine clatter issue when under load and cold. It primarily happens when I get in my vehicle of the morning, I can pull out of my drive way and start to climb the hill (I live on the side of a large hill), when it hits 4th gear on the side of the hill, it starts to clatter very loudly, its not a " I think I hear something" kinda noise, but a "omg what is that" kind of noise, it'll do it in 3rd just not as bad. I do consider myself to be very knowledgeable when it comes to engines, even modern engines don't scare me as much as most people. But I don't have the funds with this one to just throw a timing set on it and hope it fixes it "almost $900 for the whole timing set", that's usually what I do with one of my vehicles that has a timing issue and some miles, granted most timing sets i've replaced are around $200.

So a little history on the vehicle. I purchased it at 80k as a low water rebuilt, it now has 112,000. Up until now its been perfect, I run Penzoil full synthetic 5-20, and change it every 5-6k with a Motorcraft oil filter. It recently had the spark plugs, air filter, and differential fluids changed.

I really believe its in the timing some where, either a stretched chain, weak solenoids, or weak actuators. I have a friend that has a cx-9 that let me scan their vehicle, Ill post some pics of the results, the only thing that stands out to me is the timing advance. Both was run the same trip. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Healthy Vehicle

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My Vehicle

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[kornholio]

I really wish that I can help you. I do want to ask if you do this timing chain let us know how you got access to it, also change out the water pump since you will be removing the front cover anyway. Search the forums here and you will see that there are members with water pump issues on their 9. The only thing I do notice is what you notice that your timing seems to be ahead by 2.5 degrees. What is the spec supposed to be for the 9 under these conditions.

 

[Heaths]

Thanks for the quick response. I'm not to worried about the 2.5 degres more, by that point in the test I had to run the defrost, that would account for the extra timing/Load. And I thought the water pump was between the engine and transmission? I'm starting to wonder why it's not throwing a code being this bad off. If any one has any ideas, any and all help is appreciated.

 

[Vlad_spb]

What kind of program and scanner do you use?
I want to try it with my car.

 

[Heaths]

http://m.advanceautoparts.com/mt/sh...-cp9580a/10218240-P?searchTerm=actron+scanner

 

[Odrapnew]

There was a TSB regarding excessively advanced ignition timing under open loop conditions(i.e. cold engine). This lead to an engine rattle when under load until the engine warmed up to operating temperature and went into closed loop control. My wifes 09 CX9 does something very similar and its definitely detonation/pre-ignition.

Does the noise go away one the engine is warmed up?
Does it sound like a can of marbles(detonation/pre-ignition)?
What type of fuel do you use? If 87 octane, try premium for a few tanks and see if it helps.

If you were below something like 84K miles, you could have the computer reprogramed for free because it was argued that it was emissions related(I think emissions are 7yr/80k mile warranty). Now that youre out of warranty, I bet the reprogram is $200 or so.

 

[Heaths]

Thank you so much for your response, that sounds exactly like my issue. I'll be in the area of a Mazda dealer next month, I'll stop by and see if a reprogram will fix it. One thing though is recently it's started the rattle even when hot, just not near as bad. When I fill up tomorrow I'll use high octane and report back.

 

[Odrapnew]

Found this for you.

01-035/10 Subject: ENGINE SPARK KNOCKING / PINGING TYPE NOISE WHEN COLD

"The noise can be heard only when the engine is cold. It disappears after the engine reaches normal operating temperature."

Basically it is a computer re-program with the latest software version and this fixes it.

Labor hours: 0.3 Hrs.

"Additional diagnostic time cannot be claimed for this repair"

"This repair will be covered under Mazda's New Vehicle Limited and Federal Emmisions warranty..."

 

[Vlad_spb]

http://m.advanceautoparts.com/mt/sh...-cp9580a/10218240-P?searchTerm=actron+scanner

Sorry for late reply.
Thank you! But it's too long for me. I have bought simple ODB ELM 327 and install ScanXL to check my IGN ADV.
This is my vehicle, but i have no freinds with cx9 to compare it. And i don't know how look healthy vehicle.

I have also knocking on cold and under the load (around 2300rpm).
P.S. By the way, Russian official dealer does not want to reprogram PCM by the car purchased in the United States.

 

[table5511]

When my 2008 was still under warranty, I took it to the dealer for this problem. They tried to tell me the vin# didn't correspond to the service bulletin, long story short I got them to re-program my ecm. I don't think it really helped solve anything. I did solve this problem once on my own though. Poured a can of SeaFoam in the fuel tank around 3/4 full. Poured in another can about 3 or 4 fuel-ups later, and used 89 octane on every fuel-up for about 4 or 5 fuel-ups. The "cold-pinging" went away. So basically this motor just doesn't like 87 octane. It works, just doesn't like it. But presently, the wife is not a very big fan of paying more than the cheapest 87 octane she can find at Kroger with fuel points, so it just pings a little going up our hill when the motor is cold. Oh well.

 

[Vlad_spb]

I have tryed to clean all injection system with "Wynns", and use 95 octane (same as 89 in USA). But it still making pinging noise on cold.