- :
- 03.5 YLW MSP
step 3: document how its all hooked up in dept
step 4: create new thread with setup instructions and your map.
That work for you?
Emanage Blue Base Map
- Thread starter Flspeed
- Start date
step 3: document how its all hooked up in dept
step 4: create new thread with setup instructions and your map.
That work for you?
- :
- Banned For Being A Troll
I'll say this about the idea..
"The Juice is not worth the Squeeze"
E Manage seems destin to fail with the Clamp restriction...
"The Juice is not worth the Squeeze"
E Manage seems destin to fail with the Clamp restriction...
i agree.
look elsewhere.
besides, if you do get it to work, support will be a pain in the arse.
not worth it when there are other far cheaper to maintain solutions out there.
look elsewhere.
besides, if you do get it to work, support will be a pain in the arse.
not worth it when there are other far cheaper to maintain solutions out there.
racerx43269
Member
- :
- 2002 mazda protege 5
Ok... so since I'm one of the standing guru's on emanate.. ill Chine in
Here's the deal... emanate does not NEED a base map. You need to set up your injector size and what not and it will start... if you have a wide bandi can. Will get you an auto tune program. It will get you set up to start. I'm at work so ill get at you later
Here's the deal... emanate does not NEED a base map. You need to set up your injector size and what not and it will start... if you have a wide bandi can. Will get you an auto tune program. It will get you set up to start. I'm at work so ill get at you later
racerx43269
Member
- :
- 2002 mazda protege 5
Also... don't let people tell you don't work.. I ran mine for.. 2 years before switching to haltech.. my point is that you can't change timing to much.. but you can curve the hell out of the fuel. And the maf.. it is a pain to get set up bit it works... also you can upgrade. To the emanate gold with a resistor and some soldering which allows for wideband support... I will also possibly. My Mega squirt if I don't go with a Kelli for my protege.. but I honestly kinda wanna sell my p5
- :
- Banned For Being A Troll
So you bought a Haltech...
How would you compare the ability of both systems..
How would you compare the ability of both systems..
Ok... so since I'm one of the standing guru's on emanate.. ill Chine in
Here's the deal... emanate does not NEED a base map. You need to set up your injector size and what not and it will start... if you have a wide bandi can. Will get you an auto tune program. It will get you set up to start. I'm at work so ill get at you later
Your awesome. I am running the 1K resistor. I appreciate any help I can get with this unit. I will too go standalone on this car after I build a motor this year but for now, this will do. I looked at that blue to gold update online. What capabilities does that add?
racerx43269
Member
- :
- 2002 mazda protege 5
have YOU personally ran an emanage?...
and yes haltech is beautifully a pain in the ass to get installed and running right.. as well as expencive... myself, Brian MP5T and a FEW others have... but it is thousands of dollars to get running and get it installed and tuned correctly..
racerx43269
Member
- :
- 2002 mazda protege 5
ok... here is some usefull information... I will provide some links on how to AUTO TUNE, how to UPGRADE to gold... as well as how to tume.
this site has the best information about how to use it... and how it is effective... I must say though.. using a dyno to tune your car with an external wideband to monitor your air fuel ratio, and CAREFULLY tune it... DONT stay around 13.0 and above DURING boost.... you want your car to be tuned around 11.2 - 12.0 also keep in mind while tuning it is VERY important to have a new set of plugs, a fresh oil change.. and all the general maintance done and completed as they can hinder your car, as well as something can break in the process of tuning. and well that honestly isnt very cool... no one likes breaking their car and being on the side of the road..
on a quick note... the emanage system is built to add and remove fuel... but the way that youhave to go about it is kinda confusing... for example... to pull fuel away from the engine you have to add MAF voltage.. and to add fuel you just add fuel.. ( in lean spots..) however mostly you are wanting to remove fuel as to lean things out a bit more and more... it takes time and patience but it can be done.. just dont loose faith...
Now I dont have any straight screen shots.. because I deleted my emanage support tool, so I will have to redownload it again.. and then I can atleast look at it as well as a map.. and your data logs... I put up ALOT of information about the auto tune... because effectively, it works at wide open throttle, and allows the emanage to use a set point of voltage ( i.e the TPS range) and can maintain a fuel point such as 12.1 or 12.2 within reason. I used auto tune because I was running WRX 550 cc injectors.. and it allowed my car to maintain a AFR... it worked for me... doesnt mean it will or wont for you... I eventually upgraded to 1100 cc injectors and used E85.. so... you get where im going... anywho here is some reading material I had laying around frin various sites.. and I will see if i still have the AFR program that lets you log AFR and emanage
MAZDAS247.COM link
update
emanagedatalogger
emanage forum
maxima link
miata turbo forum
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/12261
http://forums.miataturbo.net/showpos...6&postcount=11
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....t=emanage+maps
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....t=emanage+maps
The Autotune is essentially a switching mechanism and two voltage reducing circuits.
When Autotune is not activated, it passes the normal NB O2 signal through to the ECU and sends a holding voltage to the Emanage so that the Emanage will not influence fueling. This allows you to run your car off boost as it was normally intended. The holding voltage is strictly a voltage the Emanage would see as requiring neither the addition of fuel nor reduction of fuel, and so keeps it neutral.
The theory is that the narrowband oxygen sensor is very repeatable in the area we would like our AFR’s to be under boost, and that the Emanage can be used to add fuel to maintain that AFR based on a setpoint and deviation from that setpoint.
What the Autotune does when activated is route the NB O2 signal to the Emanage through the Emanage TPS input, where it is compared to a map provided to hold an enriched AFR the same as your car’s ECU tries to do in closed loop while to holding at Stoich.
At the same time as the NB signal is routed to the Emanage, the ECU is provided an “oxygen clamp” signal that keeps the ECU from reacting to correct back to Stoich.
There have been problems associated with installing the Autotune, and I want to go into them for your reference:
First, we have had outright failures. One was caused by the customer installation and the other by a faulty pressure switch:
The pressure switch diaphragm tore after one year of service and the switch would no longer activate. It was a Teflon diaphragm. Only a few of these higher priced switches were supplied. All of the regular switches are provided with a Buna N diaphragm which is much tougher.
The customer installation failure was caused by the lead wires to the Autotune being cut and shorted to each other as they passed along the sharp edge of the ECU cover plate.
The Autotune relies on a good, clean signal from the NB O2 reaching the Emanage. This is probably the area where most problems have surfaced:
In most cases the sensor wire signal gets to the ECU in good shape, but in a single wire O2 installation we are relying on the vehicle grounds to get the other side of the signal to the Emanage. That portion of the signal needs to pass through the bung that the O2 is sensor is screwed into, the downpipe connection to the turbo, the turbo connection to the manifold, the manifold connection to the motor, the motor connection to the chassis and the chassis ground connection to the Emanage.
The car’s ECU can stand a dirty signal to some extent. The Emanage cannot because a break or reduction in voltage defaults to a signal that throws in a lot of fuel if the pressure switch is activated.
Most of this can be cured by cleaning all ground contacts and assuring that the piping connections are in good shape.
The single wire O2 is also relying on the heat of the exhaust to bring it to operating temperature. Where the sensor is away from the turbo and below the turbo, it takes longer to heat up.
Both of the above conditions can be ameliorated by installing a heated 4-wire oxygen sensor and tying the sensor ground wire directly into the harness that goes back to the ECU.
Voltage problems:
The Autotune is providing some very finite voltages to do its’ job. It relies on a good electrical system to supply an even voltage to the unit while it is running and there have been instances where problems have occurred. An indication of a problem here is that the TPS setting is varying while logging off boost. This can be caused by a circuit overload (such as adding a WBO2 to the same circuit), faulty grounds, bad battery, or weak or defective alternator.
Attachments to the NBO2 can cause the output voltage to be reduced(such as with an air/fuel gauge) or even feedback that can increase the voltage if another logging of that signal is attempted.
Emanage Overload:
The Emanage, itself, is a computer. It has a finite limit to the signals it can process within a specific period. Dirty or noisy signals cause the Emanage to process every variation of that signal and will change the rate that it can process other signals to the point that it will overload. This was pointed out to me when the AFM sweep arm was very loose, sending a very noisy signal to the point that the firing of the ignition was interrupted.
this site has the best information about how to use it... and how it is effective... I must say though.. using a dyno to tune your car with an external wideband to monitor your air fuel ratio, and CAREFULLY tune it... DONT stay around 13.0 and above DURING boost.... you want your car to be tuned around 11.2 - 12.0 also keep in mind while tuning it is VERY important to have a new set of plugs, a fresh oil change.. and all the general maintance done and completed as they can hinder your car, as well as something can break in the process of tuning. and well that honestly isnt very cool... no one likes breaking their car and being on the side of the road..
on a quick note... the emanage system is built to add and remove fuel... but the way that youhave to go about it is kinda confusing... for example... to pull fuel away from the engine you have to add MAF voltage.. and to add fuel you just add fuel.. ( in lean spots..) however mostly you are wanting to remove fuel as to lean things out a bit more and more... it takes time and patience but it can be done..
just dont loose faith...Now I dont have any straight screen shots.. because I deleted my emanage support tool, so I will have to redownload it again.. and then I can atleast look at it as well as a map.. and your data logs... I put up ALOT of information about the auto tune... because effectively, it works at wide open throttle, and allows the emanage to use a set point of voltage ( i.e the TPS range) and can maintain a fuel point such as 12.1 or 12.2 within reason. I used auto tune because I was running WRX 550 cc injectors.. and it allowed my car to maintain a AFR... it worked for me... doesnt mean it will or wont for you... I eventually upgraded to 1100 cc injectors and used E85.. so... you get where im going... anywho here is some reading material I had laying around frin various sites.. and I will see if i still have the AFR program that lets you log AFR and emanage
MAZDAS247.COM link
update
emanagedatalogger
emanage forum
maxima link
miata turbo forum
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/12261
http://forums.miataturbo.net/showpos...6&postcount=11
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....t=emanage+maps
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....t=emanage+maps
The Autotune is essentially a switching mechanism and two voltage reducing circuits.
When Autotune is not activated, it passes the normal NB O2 signal through to the ECU and sends a holding voltage to the Emanage so that the Emanage will not influence fueling. This allows you to run your car off boost as it was normally intended. The holding voltage is strictly a voltage the Emanage would see as requiring neither the addition of fuel nor reduction of fuel, and so keeps it neutral.
The theory is that the narrowband oxygen sensor is very repeatable in the area we would like our AFR’s to be under boost, and that the Emanage can be used to add fuel to maintain that AFR based on a setpoint and deviation from that setpoint.
What the Autotune does when activated is route the NB O2 signal to the Emanage through the Emanage TPS input, where it is compared to a map provided to hold an enriched AFR the same as your car’s ECU tries to do in closed loop while to holding at Stoich.
At the same time as the NB signal is routed to the Emanage, the ECU is provided an “oxygen clamp” signal that keeps the ECU from reacting to correct back to Stoich.
There have been problems associated with installing the Autotune, and I want to go into them for your reference:
First, we have had outright failures. One was caused by the customer installation and the other by a faulty pressure switch:
The pressure switch diaphragm tore after one year of service and the switch would no longer activate. It was a Teflon diaphragm. Only a few of these higher priced switches were supplied. All of the regular switches are provided with a Buna N diaphragm which is much tougher.
The customer installation failure was caused by the lead wires to the Autotune being cut and shorted to each other as they passed along the sharp edge of the ECU cover plate.
The Autotune relies on a good, clean signal from the NB O2 reaching the Emanage. This is probably the area where most problems have surfaced:
In most cases the sensor wire signal gets to the ECU in good shape, but in a single wire O2 installation we are relying on the vehicle grounds to get the other side of the signal to the Emanage. That portion of the signal needs to pass through the bung that the O2 is sensor is screwed into, the downpipe connection to the turbo, the turbo connection to the manifold, the manifold connection to the motor, the motor connection to the chassis and the chassis ground connection to the Emanage.
The car’s ECU can stand a dirty signal to some extent. The Emanage cannot because a break or reduction in voltage defaults to a signal that throws in a lot of fuel if the pressure switch is activated.
Most of this can be cured by cleaning all ground contacts and assuring that the piping connections are in good shape.
The single wire O2 is also relying on the heat of the exhaust to bring it to operating temperature. Where the sensor is away from the turbo and below the turbo, it takes longer to heat up.
Both of the above conditions can be ameliorated by installing a heated 4-wire oxygen sensor and tying the sensor ground wire directly into the harness that goes back to the ECU.
Voltage problems:
The Autotune is providing some very finite voltages to do its’ job. It relies on a good electrical system to supply an even voltage to the unit while it is running and there have been instances where problems have occurred. An indication of a problem here is that the TPS setting is varying while logging off boost. This can be caused by a circuit overload (such as adding a WBO2 to the same circuit), faulty grounds, bad battery, or weak or defective alternator.
Attachments to the NBO2 can cause the output voltage to be reduced(such as with an air/fuel gauge) or even feedback that can increase the voltage if another logging of that signal is attempted.
Emanage Overload:
The Emanage, itself, is a computer. It has a finite limit to the signals it can process within a specific period. Dirty or noisy signals cause the Emanage to process every variation of that signal and will change the rate that it can process other signals to the point that it will overload. This was pointed out to me when the AFM sweep arm was very loose, sending a very noisy signal to the point that the firing of the ignition was interrupted.
racerx43269
Member
- :
- 2002 mazda protege 5
you know I bought a haltech.... and in compairison...
PROS of emanage...... it was CHEAP, avaliable and what I had to use at the time
CONS: NOT much information about the emanage, everything I saw was from hours and hours of reading and learning engine theory as well as ECU theory and wiring.. I spent alot of time trying to figure out voltages and what not.. alot of the information that is avalible now wasnt when I had my emanage...
overall cost with emanage... 400 bucks including a day o dyno... 39 pulls... just to get a crappy 265 out of my " built" ( forged everything upgraded fuel and turbo) protege 5
HALTECH.......
PROS: it works... its windows based.... it was shiney and new..... once I had a grip on wiring and how it worked and functioned... it wasnt to bad..
cons... it is a stand alone.. not everyone can afford to spend 1900 on an ecu and wiring harness... plus another 1000 on an IQ3 ( racedash lcd data display VIA canbus ) and another 250 on a RA-210 ( RA-10? ) optical converter to convert the crank signal to digital, as well as custom cam gears, custom valve cover had to be cut, ( more of a choice) new MSD COP's were needed... I went through 6 SETS of stock coils before learning about GSX-R and honda CBR coils that could be used in conjunction with a MSD box,
over all I ended up spending... between 2000 and 4900 for the ecu and getting everything working and all the bugs worked out.. I ended up putting down 462 HP @ 26lbs boost....
between them both... there was not ALOT of information... the haltech was the worest to get installed and functioning.. with out hiccups however with taht said... AFTER the kinks were worked out it was GREAT.... tuning was a walk in the park... again that was after learning everything... emailing back and fourth with haltech and reading the haltech forums, talking to members like brian_MP5T, and some others on here running haltech...
racerx43269
Member
- :
- 2002 mazda protege 5
- :
- 03.5 YLW MSP
WOW racer when I pm'd you for your input I didnt expect all that! Very detailed from what little bit I have read
racerx43269
Member
- :
- 2002 mazda protege 5
sorry for the dated links.. buty emanage is old lol..
- :
- Banned For Being A Troll
Un-Subscribing From This Crazy s***..
This is like trying to fix a 12" POS Black and White TV, when you can get a 32" LCD for $50.00 at Target...
This is like trying to fix a 12" POS Black and White TV, when you can get a 32" LCD for $50.00 at Target...
racerx43269
Member
- :
- 2002 mazda protege 5
HAHAHA thats funny lol... but yeah.. he is right.... buy a mega squirt and dont waste time and money.. seriously
MSP2003.5_Nick
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege - Dark Silver
With ecus you really do pay for what you get. It's cheap and will do some of what you need (before the ecu relearns and you have to reset your ecu once a week).
I guess it's like buying a base model impreza then pulling up next to a wrx sti........ you'll think If you just saved a bit more money you could of had something that has everything you want. Instead of trying to make what you have half as good as it.
Honestly if I couldn't afford a haltech I would have gone with megasquirt. It's primitive but will do all the same things. You can even order the whole ecu in bits for cheaper and solder them all together for hours of fun. I would seriously find that fun, and you can be proud when your home made ecu is running your car.
.... and YES the haltech platinum sport series is a huge pain to get installed and running right since it's not plug and play. But if you got the money and the ambition to wire it all its amazing and very satisfying when you're all done with it.
You gotta pay to play, and with this car its not just expensive but difficult and annoying. You want something easy to modify get a honda. I put $1500 into my civic hatchback and made it WAY faster than my protege, hence why I had to make my protege much faster out of spite to myself lol.
I guess it's like buying a base model impreza then pulling up next to a wrx sti........ you'll think If you just saved a bit more money you could of had something that has everything you want. Instead of trying to make what you have half as good as it.
Honestly if I couldn't afford a haltech I would have gone with megasquirt. It's primitive but will do all the same things. You can even order the whole ecu in bits for cheaper and solder them all together for hours of fun. I would seriously find that fun, and you can be proud when your home made ecu is running your car.
.... and YES the haltech platinum sport series is a huge pain to get installed and running right since it's not plug and play. But if you got the money and the ambition to wire it all its amazing and very satisfying when you're all done with it.
You gotta pay to play, and with this car its not just expensive but difficult and annoying. You want something easy to modify get a honda. I put $1500 into my civic hatchback and made it WAY faster than my protege, hence why I had to make my protege much faster out of spite to myself lol.
