dealerships and salesperson story!

[kipper88]

Here is my story; since the recent news that my wife and I are not only pregnant but we will be having two children instead of the expected one! I have been hunting for the perfect car for our new needs. Well after researching, reading reviews, and test-driving many different cars, suvs, minivans, and crossovers I decided that the Honda CR-V would be the car for us. I wanted and loved the tribute but interior was just too small. I went to the dealership last week and was offered 12,800 trade-in on my mint condition spicy orange MSP, which I thought was fair and after checking with people on the forum it seemed like a good deal. So yesterday I left early for work and went to the same dealership and dealt with the same dealer. He didnt remember me at first, even though it was only a week and half since I saw him last, but after I said my name and told him which car I was interested in he said that he remembered. We found the car on the lot, my wife and I took it for a good 2 hour test drive (we actually put baby seats in the car along with stroller and stuff to see how full we could cram this sucker) came back and started talking pricing. We worked on pricing and we got to a point where I felt comfortable with the bottom line price, after tax, title, etc.thats when I remind him of the trade in of the MSP. At this point he finally fully remembers our situation that we had talked about last time, he goes to talk to him manager and he regrets to tells us that he cant sell us the CR-V for that price and take my car in on trade for the original price he quoted. I ask for explanations but he only say he cant do it.

Whats the dealwe ended up not getting the CR-V yesterday and today I am getting pretty pissed. Anyone with any good recommendations for dealing with dealers in generalor anyone salesman here know why my deal went sour?

 

[Puckpimp71]

I'm in sales. A couple questions...
1 Did he actually have your car looked at in the first place?
2 Was 12,800 a firm price, or was it the top of a range?
3 Had you gotten into price when you were offered a dollar amount on the trade?
It sounds to me like he low balled you on the trade when you first came in. It's not uncommon for dealers/salespeople to do that, because when you leave, that puts us under the impression that you're going to shop all over town. To take you out of the market, they'll blow up the trade in value by taking money out of the mark-up in the car you're buying, or they'll quote the trade in for Excellent condition just to make you happy.
A couple examples: Say there's $2000 mark-up in MSRP vs invoice. Your car's ACV is only 11,000. I could tell you that you car's worth 12,800, which sounds great, but now I only have $200 wiggle room over invoice. Now, if I were to give up the car at invoice, it's going to be a $200 loser for the dealer.
Another example would be that he threw a number at you that you could potentially get after the dealer calls its wholesalers, but didn't get...
In any case I don't agree with this practice since credibility is the only thing that sets me apart from the guy down the road. All the inforamtion you'd ever need to buy a car is ready to go for free at the click of a mouse. If I lie to a potential customer and they find out, then I've lost a sale.

 

[kipper88]

We both rode and looked carefully at the car before he gave me a trade in value, after he said 12,800 I asked for him to write it down so when comparing and evaluating my options I had something to look back on. The thing that makes me made is that we worked out a good/fair deal. I was getting the car for about 7000 lower than sticker price but 2000 lower than the 'end of the year' clearance crap. I don't feel as if I was ripping him off but at the same time I didn't feel I was getting ripped off. This would have been my first brand new car and my first dealer expierence, so far it has been pretty sour. There is a 'no haggle' honda dealership in town I might try my luck there if I can't work things out with this place.

On a side note, he actually said (not in his words but I am paraphrasing) that if I bought the CRV for 2000 more than the deal we had already worked out then he would give me 12,800 for trade-in! I don't want to pay 2000 more for a deal we had already set!!!

As a dealer how do you determine a used car's value? For instance I have a 2003 spicy orange MSP in good condition (2 minor sratches on the rear bumper). The car 100% is stock.

I read in another thread about black book but my internet searches have not given me anything to use.

 

[stdntDrvr]

it's called over-allowing. your car isn't worth 12800. if he's playing with the 2K, your car is only worth 10800...which is a little high, imo. he's the idiot that did that s***...as much as i hate to say it, i'd hold his ass to it...i hope you have it in writing!!!! if not, take the deal...it's a fair deal and you're not getting ripped off.

 

[Puckpimp71]

yessir... It's the end of the month. Let's see how much you can get out of it.

 

[stdntDrvr]

yessir... It's the end of the month. Let's see how much you can get out of it.

why the **** do people think dealerships are always trying to rip them off? hell, buyers are more dishonest than any salesman i've met...and trust me, i've met some straight dicks. i would rather try to buy a car than try to sell one. the buying public are 1 of 2 things. either ******* idiots or they're people who actually THINK they know how my business is run and since they THINK they do, they can say/offer whatever the **** they please. come on. car buyers are the biggest POS's out there...not the salesmen. we're just trying to make a living...buyers are trying to rip every penny out of our hands. not that you have to make a ton of money, but s***...somewhere between MSRP and invoice is a FAIR ******* PRICE...oh no, not to a buyer. they should be able to get it cheaper than invoice...because they're ******* special...and we need their business. bulls***. i've told people they could kiss my ass before because they had that attitude. what have i lost? are they going to run and tell everyone what an asshole i am? probably...but who really gives a s***. if someone has that attitude, the people they tell will probably just roll their eyes at them and move on.

sorry for the rant.

 

[kipper88]

why the **** do people think dealerships are always trying to rip them off? hell, buyers are more dishonest than any salesman i've met...and trust me, i've met some straight dicks. i would rather try to buy a car than try to sell one. the buying public are 1 of 2 things. either ******* idiots or they're people who actually THINK they know how my business is run and since they THINK they do, they can say/offer whatever the **** they please. come on. car buyers are the biggest POS's out there...not the salesmen. we're just trying to make a living...buyers are trying to rip every penny out of our hands. not that you have to make a ton of money, but s***...somewhere between MSRP and invoice is a FAIR ******* PRICE...oh no, not to a buyer. they should be able to get it cheaper than invoice...because they're ******* special...and we need their business. bulls***. i've told people they could kiss my ass before because they had that attitude. what have i lost? are they going to run and tell everyone what an asshole i am? probably...but who really gives a s***. if someone has that attitude, the people they tell will probably just roll their eyes at them and move on.

sorry for the rant.

How am I supposed to feel when a fair deal wasn't given to me because of a trade-in value? The deal was worked out and I was ready to pay for my new car when, oh wait I can't give you what I previously said I was because now I am not going to make as much money...thanks but no thanks.

I really like how you generalize all buyers into 2 categories. Yes, you are right we should all pay sticker price and feel good about it.

 

[stdntDrvr]

he probably offered you 12800 thinking he'd never see you again...then you show back up...and him being the dumbass that he is, doesn't work your trade into the deal. now he's giving you a car and you remind him of the fact that you have a trade...so, he has to back up because your msp isn't worth 12800...hell, it hasn't been worth that in over 2 years. i wasn't bitching at you, i was bitching in general. no one should pay msrp. like i said...there's a fair price between msrp and invoice...it's up to the customer/salesman to decide...but all this s*** over "they should go into their holdback" is bulls***. out of all the people who even say that, i bet 99% of them doesn't even know what it is and why it's there.

 

[mspdfreak]

why the **** do people think dealerships are always trying to rip them off? hell, buyers are more dishonest than any salesman i've met...and trust me, i've met some straight dicks. i would rather try to buy a car than try to sell one. the buying public are 1 of 2 things. either ******* idiots or they're people who actually THINK they know how my business is run and since they THINK they do, they can say/offer whatever the **** they please. come on. car buyers are the biggest POS's out there...not the salesmen. we're just trying to make a living...buyers are trying to rip every penny out of our hands. not that you have to make a ton of money, but s***...somewhere between MSRP and invoice is a FAIR ******* PRICE...oh no, not to a buyer. they should be able to get it cheaper than invoice...because they're ******* special...and we need their business. bulls***. i've told people they could kiss my ass before because they had that attitude. what have i lost? are they going to run and tell everyone what an asshole i am? probably...but who really gives a s***. if someone has that attitude, the people they tell will probably just roll their eyes at them and move on.

sorry for the rant.

Yep, you're a car salesman alright. You have told customers to "kiss your ass"? How classy. If they walk, "what have I lost"? Um, your commission, dumbass. Car salesmen are no different than any other retail saleman. Your job is to sell what the company is wanting to get rid of first. I know how the game is played....I did it. I quit after 6 months because it sickened me to see the tactics used in order to get the product sold. I love the "well, let me go talk to my manager, first" line. Oldest trick in the book.
Please get off your soapbox. 90% of car salesmen I've dealt with are pond scum. From the contents of your "rant", you seem to be among them.

 

[stdntDrvr]

wow. pond scum? look, just because you couldn't make any money in your first 6 months doesn't mean you know how things work. there are no "tactics" used. the whole "game" as you call it is to find somewhere that is agreeable between all parties. funny, doesn't sound like a game to me? but, i do appreciate being called "pond scum." although, i don't play any said "games" and my customers come back to me...i guess i must do something right. and apparently, since you find the contents of my rant offensive, you're one of the dumbasses that think they can come do my job. well, i invite you to. come down. i'll give you a place to stay...and you can actually learn how this business works...otherwise...you can take that 6 months you spent doing this and think you have some clue to know everything.

 

[stdntDrvr]

and fyi. in my sig is a link to let everyone in on the "secrets"...so no, i don't like to see people get ripped off...but an honest deal is an honest deal...and, even though the salesman ****** up, he's still getting a good deal.

 

[mspdfreak]

wow. pond scum? look, just because you couldn't make any money in your first 6 months doesn't mean you know how things work. there are no "tactics" used. the whole "game" as you call it is to find somewhere that is agreeable between all parties. funny, doesn't sound like a game to me? but, i do appreciate being called "pond scum." although, i don't play any said "games" and my customers come back to me...i guess i must do something right. and apparently, since you find the contents of my rant offensive, you're one of the dumbasses that think they can come do my job. well, i invite you to. come down. i'll give you a place to stay...and you can actually learn how this business works...otherwise...you can take that 6 months you spent doing this and think you have some clue to know everything.

Who said I didn't make any money? I made alot of money. It was a question of ethics. I wasn't comfortable deceiving people to make a buck.

BTW, I nver called you pond scum. I merely said some of the things in your rant made you look like it.

Look, if you're comfortable with your profession, more power to you. But let's not sugar-coat reality. One of my current co-workers is a 30 year veteran in the car sales industry, and he's right up front about the tactics used by both salesmen and finace department employees. In fact, he helped me avoid all the bulls*** during my last purchase. To the tune of about $3000 to be exact.

But as long as people like you continue to post about telling customers to "kiss your ass", and calling customers "dumbasses", then you're just reaffirming the stereotype you guys have built for yourselves.

Oh, here's a little tip you may want to remember the next time you're about to tell a customer to "kiss your ass". Negative word of mouth spreads further and faster than positive word of mouth.

 

[stdntDrvr]

i wouldn't tell someone to kiss my ass...i don't care how pissed off i was...but i will tell someone whether something is do-able or not. it sounds like you were at a bad dealer...not all dealerships operate with those "tactics." however, yes...most customers are dumbasses. sorry. it is what it is...and if the world revolved around stereotypes, we'd all be in a mess, wouldn't we? the simple point i was trying to make is this: not all dealerships are there to rip you off. and in this guy's case...it was a mistake. plain and simple. the whole "yeah, get into his holdback" and s*** is ridiculous. if i had a buyer make a mistake, i would point it out and let them correct it...hell, if YOU would have made the mistake instead of the salesman and they wouldn't change things...they're ripping you off...but because HE made a mistake and went back to change something, he's ripping you off. where does it end? you can't have a double-standard. life doesn't operate like that. what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. i've never done something in my line of work that made it to where i didn't sleep at night. yeah, i've told managers that i wouldn't do something...yeah, they got pissed, but they got over it...but that was also at a different store. just because you had a bad experience for 6 months doesn't mean that everyone in the business is like that.

 

[Blitzd]

Wow, so this kinda got out of hand. Topher is a good personal friend of mine and I don't appreciate the name calling. He didn't single anyone out and neither should the rest of us. I understand his headaches because I used to work with him. He is an honest person and gives fair deals where he can.
I dont completly agree that there are only 2 types of buyers because I don't fit into that catagory in anyway. He was probably just venting..WE ALL DO IT.

I say all of this to say this. Lets get back on topic and stop the friggin fighting. This forum is for helping each other not pissing each other off. Thank You.

 

[evilmonkeyMSP]

Ben....kiss my ass....hehe (peep)

 

[Blitzd]

Ben....kiss my ass....hehe (peep)

watch yourself I know where you live.... wait no I don't

Take your chip and dip it buddy

 

[Puckpimp71]

Yep, you're a car salesman alright. You have told customers to "kiss your ass"? How classy. If they walk, "what have I lost"? Um, your commission, dumbass. Car salesmen are no different than any other retail saleman. Your job is to sell what the company is wanting to get rid of first. I know how the game is played....I did it. I quit after 6 months because it sickened me to see the tactics used in order to get the product sold. I love the "well, let me go talk to my manager, first" line. Oldest trick in the book.
Please get off your soapbox. 90% of car salesmen I've dealt with are pond scum. From the contents of your "rant", you seem to be among them.

I'm in sales. Actually, I posted a question about getting into the business and Topher's response was one of the reasons that I got into it. Not sure how long ago you were in it, but I'm with Topher that you didn't do very well. Why would you quit a job that's making you good money? You couldn't stand the tactics??? the tricks??? I'm on track for 60,000-70,000 dollars this year and I haven't told any lies, or used any sneaky tactics. Ask my customer base that's coming back to me for new cars and sending their friends... Keleko bought a car from me, PM him. Sure if someone comes in and doesn't give a damn what the trades worth and has no problem paying sticker, then I'll make what I can, after all, I'm not working for my health insurance, but that doens't make me a liar, or sneaky. Yeah, there's a lot of bad people in auto sales, but if you want to find some liars, then look into politics, where there's no Edmunds.com or KBB.com that can tell you the whole picture, or real estate, where only the MLS can help. The auto industry has so many places for people to research that sales people that lie, cheat etc... aren't lasting very long because they get caught. My dad, an attorney, won a $700,000 judgement against an unscupulous dealer, because they got caught... I'm curious how long ago you sold, because where I work, it's amazing to me how many people lie to me about what so and so dealer down the street told them.
I don't know, maybe it boils down to me working at a good dealer...

 

[slayer4u]

Did honda ever get rid of the CRV's wicked blind spot? I remember driving my ex-girlfriends. you couldn't see a damn thing through that tiny back side window. piss me off big time.

 

[mspdfreak]

I'm in sales. Actually, I posted a question about getting into the business and Topher's response was one of the reasons that I got into it. Not sure how long ago you were in it, but I'm with Topher that you didn't do very well. Why would you quit a job that's making you good money? You couldn't stand the tactics??? the tricks??? I'm on track for 60,000-70,000 dollars this year and I haven't told any lies, or used any sneaky tactics. Ask my customer base that's coming back to me for new cars and sending their friends... Keleko bought a car from me, PM him. Sure if someone comes in and doesn't give a damn what the trades worth and has no problem paying sticker, then I'll make what I can, after all, I'm not working for my health insurance, but that doens't make me a liar, or sneaky. Yeah, there's a lot of bad people in auto sales, but if you want to find some liars, then look into politics, where there's no Edmunds.com or KBB.com that can tell you the whole picture, or real estate, where only the MLS can help. The auto industry has so many places for people to research that sales people that lie, cheat etc... aren't lasting very long because they get caught. My dad, an attorney, won a $700,000 judgement against an unscupulous dealer, because they got caught... I'm curious how long ago you sold, because where I work, it's amazing to me how many people lie to me about what so and so dealer down the street told them.
I don't know, maybe it boils down to me working at a good dealer...

Congratulations on your success. I worked in sales back in 1994. The experience was profitible, but draining on my mind. Tricks? Tactics? Oh, yeah, I was trained to use them. Examples? Sure.
1.) Okay, you have extended service, right? Offer it, and if the customer declines, leave it alone, right? Wrong. You push it repeatedly. If you can't sell it, then you pass them along to a supervisor, who then puts the squeeze on.
2.) The customer finds the car they want, say, a 2006 camry. He's ready to buy, but the SM has an '05 still on the lot, costing mucho money for the dealer, and you have to sway the customer into buying that car, kissing off the one he wanted. And you're not told to offer them a better deal, no, you're told to make them believe they're getting a better car than the one they wanted.

At first, I thought I might have chosen an unscrupulous dealer to work at. But car salesmen seem to stick together, and you wind up going out for drinks after work, etc. And after meeting and talking with several salesmen from several different dealerships, I began to realize this was going on all acorss town. I didn't feel comfotable with the profession, and quit. It's all good, as a make a very respectable living in a VERY different world.

If you enjoy your work, great. It appears you belong in the 10% I refered to in my first post.

 

[sanblaster]

why the **** do people think dealerships are always trying to rip them off? hell, buyers are more dishonest than any salesman i've met...and trust me, i've met some straight dicks. i would rather try to buy a car than try to sell one. the buying public are 1 of 2 things. either ******* idiots or they're people who actually THINK they know how my business is run and since they THINK they do, they can say/offer whatever the **** they please. come on. car buyers are the biggest POS's out there...not the salesmen. we're just trying to make a living...buyers are trying to rip every penny out of our hands. not that you have to make a ton of money, but s***...somewhere between MSRP and invoice is a FAIR ******* PRICE...oh no, not to a buyer. they should be able to get it cheaper than invoice...because they're ******* special...and we need their business. bulls***. i've told people they could kiss my ass before because they had that attitude. what have i lost? are they going to run and tell everyone what an asshole i am? probably...but who really gives a s***. if someone has that attitude, the people they tell will probably just roll their eyes at them and move on.

sorry for the rant.

If I had your attitude at work I would have been fired long ago. Just remember customer/client is always right. I find it hard to believe that you really say this to people in front of their face at a business. Come on bro and lighten up.