Not exactly a mainstream auto review site, but a long and interesting read
http://www.thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-compact-crossover-suv/
http://www.thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-compact-crossover-suv/
CX-5 named best compact crossover
- Thread starter mingm
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- RDX Aspec Adv.
I've owned RWD, FWD, and true AWD (Not like CX-5) vehicles, and I found this statement on that site laughable, having driven all of said vehicles in snow.
Seriously? I could FLOOR my AWD Jeep in the snow. It hooked and went. I passed FWD cars spinning out going up hills. Just sitting on the hill spinning their tires trying to go up it. AWD made my Jeep handle the snow like it was dry pavement unless I was an idiot and slammed on the brakes. That's a vehicle with almost 400 pound feet of torque. So much swill.
His statement was laughable? Are you aware that was said by a guy from Michigan (think regular winter snowstorms) who is a long-time and well respected Auto Critic for The Detroit News (at least he was until he kept his credibility intact and resigned after being forced to water down a negative review of the Chrysler 200 after an advertiser complained). I don't think his experience driving in the snow is lacking. And I agree with his assessment and have said many similar things myself based upon my extensive 30+ year history of driving many cars to satisfy my snow sport addictions. As well as driving for two different ski areas professionally for 9 years. The guy knows what he's talking about.
Here's a photo of Scott:
Looks like a Detroit Auto Critic who's been around the block a few times.
I still haven't figured out where you acquired your superior snow driving experience. Was it in Texas or those "mountains" in Arkansas I keep hearing about?
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His statement was laughable? Are you aware that was said by a guy from Michigan (think regular winter snowstorms) who is a long-time and well respected Auto Critic for The Detroit News (at least he was until he kept his credibility intact and resigned after being forced to water down a negative review of the Chrysler 200 after an advertiser complained). I don't think his experience driving in the snow is lacking. And I agree with his assessment and have said many similar things myself based upon my extensive 30+ year history of driving many cars to satisfy my snow sport addictions. As well as driving for two different ski areas professionally for 9 years. The guy knows what he's talking about.
Here's a photo of Scott:
Looks like a Detroit Auto Critic who's been around the block a few times.
I still haven't figured out where you acquired your superior snow driving experience. Was it in Texas or those "mountains" in Arkansas I keep hearing about?
It doesn't take much experience to figure out that spinning and not making it up a hill and sliding into the car behind you is full of fail. I could care less where the editor is from, what his experience is, or what you have to say on the matter, because you know what I've learned in my short 29 years? I've learned that what others say < What I've seen and done. I can learn from others, and respect that many people know more than me, but when someone tells me something that countermands something I have personally experienced, I've got to go with my real-world results vs. The Internet. YMMV.
BTDT with FWD in the snow, and it's terrible compared to AWD. Seen it, done it. Or maybe my all-seasons on my AWD Jeep were just super awesome and the difference really was that I've found 80K mile tread-life All-seasons which are = to snow-tires, but somehow I doubt that considering how far I could slide it stomping the brakes hooning around.
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But you didn't answer my question. How much snow driving experience do you have?
And it looks like you have misinterpreted his answer, no one said AWD wasn't superior in the snow, it's just a question of degree.
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Not a whole lot, I freely admit. I've driven a FWD car in 3-4" of snow, and it was hell. I've driven my Jeep in similar, and it was almost funny watching others actually slide around, until I got to hooning around and slammed the brakes and slid 100+ feet from a 20mph speed, I felt like it was dry pavement. Those are my only 2 experiences with it, but they left lasting impressions, what, seeing every FWD vehicle on the road having issues and the frantic look on faces as they were sliding down hills while trying to go up them. My experience is that AWD fixes one of 3 problems, which is acceleration. It won't fix turning or braking, but at least you won't slide down the hill.
This is telling. You are challenging the experiences of longtime, veteran winter drivers with, what, less than 1000 miles snow/ice driving experience under your belt? Maybe less than a hundred miles? In how many different vehicles? Probably less than 5?
And this is where you are wrong. If a car is going to slide down a hill with all four wheels locked up, it's going to slide down with AWD (except in specific, limited conditions). The 4 tires only have so much traction. This is more an issue of tires than AWD (or lack of such).
And fixing the "go" pedal without fixing the "stop pedal" or the steering wheel is a recipe for disaster. I'll re-iterate what Scott Burgess said: “Honestly, AWD is pretty overrated,” Burgess told us. “Most systems are not nearly as capable as owners think and they add additional weight to a vehicle, hurting gas mileage.” He went on to explain: “A FWD Honda Civic will do just fine in most snow. So will a crossover with AWD. The one advantage a compact crossover might have over a similar car is [ground] clearance, as it can drive over more things. But that’s not a matter of AWD vs. FWD, it’s a matter of the body.”
There is nothing funny about this because it plays itself out in real life over and over and over with neophyte snow drivers.
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Internet < My personal experience.
YMMV, but I've never EVER gone wrong doing what works in the real world based on ANY amount of my personal experience instead of what some guy on the internet advised me to do.
But, I'll play the game.
When you are on a 40-45* slant in a FWD car, a significant amount of the weight is shifted toward the rear of the vehicle, and the acceleration of a vehicle naturally shifts MORE weight to the back. When you have AWD, you are able to still get traction with the back tires without ever spinning. With the FWD, when you try to accelerate, and you lose traction and begin sliding, hitting the brakes is like trying to grab a slipping rope, because you are already in motion. But, hey, what do I know observing and experiencing isn't as good as reading on the Interned from Experts...
As to it being a recipe for disaster, why is that? Oh, I'll tell you why. It's because it's better, that's why. It allows people to accelerate more efficiently. You contradict your own statements, logically, RIGHT THERE. This is bad because it gives a false sense of confidence, as people think easy acceleration = easy stopping/cornering, and it just ain't so, so you want to go on and talk about how AWD does nothing, and then talk about how "It's a recipe for disaster [because it allows better acceleration, implied]" I'm over here just amused by you trying to argue with me while saying exactly what I've been telling you. It makes the go-pedal much more effective!
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(uhm) Umm.... Nobody advised you to do anything. The statement you disagreed with was merely a general observation that AWD is over-rated for winter driving. (uhm)
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I disagree that a civic does just fine. It sits and spins and causes wrecks is what it does. My AWD SUV went up the hill just fine.
Let me be more clear:
I was able to go up the hill safely with zero drama.
The FWD car (accord, yota, or civic, I forget) sat and spun as the driver TRIED to go up the hill.
Further clarification:
I got where I was going.
FWD car driver did not.
Hilarious. Nobody drives on a 40-45 degree slope in the snow. In fact, the steepest paved road in the entire world, is a residential road in New Zealand (yes, I've driven it) and it's about 22 degrees at the steepest portion.
Nobody said "AWD does nothing", merely that it's over-rated. It looks like you just want to argue so you make stuff up.
I'll tell you what. Maybe you would like to come up to my mountain cabin in the North Cascades this February and give me a few snow skiing pointers on how the latest Texas snow skiing techniques work (and any Arkansas techniques would be welcome too). I'll show you around the mountain like any good host would. (laugh) At 29 years young, you shouldn't have any trouble keeping up with my 52 yo decrepit body.
While you're at it, you can give me some helpful winter driving tips for extreme snow/ice driving conditions. If you bring your CX-5 up here, I'll follow you so I can learn first hand what works. Hopefully, I can keep up with you on the steep, twisty mountain road cut into the side of the mountain without a single guardrail. None of this silly "Internet knowledge", I want what works "in the real world."
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Ill take a picture for you, but don't know how to put it in perspective.
I can't snow ski for s***, but I can run up and down your mountain, lol.
Bring your CX-5 so I can follow you up/down the mountain this winter (assuming I can keep up with my puny 2.0L engine). LOL! I would like to learn some of your real world winter driving techniques rather than all that "Internet" knowledge that's been clogging up my brain.
But no, you can't run up/down the mountain in February, the snow is over your head. Of course peak depth doesn't usually happen until early April.
I have been driving since 1964. I have seeked out snow to drive in for fun since my first winter driving. My father was from Vermont and taught me the fun of driving in snow.
In 1970 I got my first FWD car. My first 4wd car in 2003. All these years I would leave for work 1 or 2 hrs early so I could drive in fresh snow. I once drove 14 hrs straght in snow. Most of it on closed roads. (In a FWD Saab 96) More then once I have come upon a roadblock from the wrong side. Excuse me officer, would you move your car.
I have experience. FWD vs RWD. No way, I will never voluntarily drive RWD in snow. FWD vs 4WD ok I can tell the difference but no big thing. Full time vs part time. Don't care. To put it in perspective, I will take a RWD car with good snow tires vs a full time 4WD with all seasons.
And yes, I have got out and asked the driver of a 4WD vehicle if he would stop driving half way up the hill and sliding back down so I could take a try at it. He laughed, I topped the hill and never looked back.
To be fair, if I had had the same 4WD car he did with my tires, it would have been easer. I had to put the right wheel on the sholder where the traction was better and ride the brake just a little to limit left wheel spin. (Back before traction control)
In 1970 I got my first FWD car. My first 4wd car in 2003. All these years I would leave for work 1 or 2 hrs early so I could drive in fresh snow. I once drove 14 hrs straght in snow. Most of it on closed roads. (In a FWD Saab 96) More then once I have come upon a roadblock from the wrong side. Excuse me officer, would you move your car.
I have experience. FWD vs RWD. No way, I will never voluntarily drive RWD in snow. FWD vs 4WD ok I can tell the difference but no big thing. Full time vs part time. Don't care. To put it in perspective, I will take a RWD car with good snow tires vs a full time 4WD with all seasons.
And yes, I have got out and asked the driver of a 4WD vehicle if he would stop driving half way up the hill and sliding back down so I could take a try at it. He laughed, I topped the hill and never looked back.
To be fair, if I had had the same 4WD car he did with my tires, it would have been easer. I had to put the right wheel on the sholder where the traction was better and ride the brake just a little to limit left wheel spin. (Back before traction control)
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I don't believe I ever claimed to be God's gift to driving, much less in the snow. I simply claimed to know first hand how bad FWD sucks comparatively for acceleration in snow/ice.
I still bet I would get further up/down that mountain than you would, albeit, we may have to measure the victory with a ruler instead of something grander, if the snow is that deep. I simply doubt you maintain the level of physical fitness that I do, but I'm open to being shown up!
How far are you from Portland,OR? Those tiny communist states all run together, it can't be far.
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But Mike will never admit this for some crazy reason.
You missed my point. 4WD is better but only a LITTLE BIT better.
To drive in snow you need you need these things on a 1 to 10 scale 10 most important
Good quality snow tires 8
FWD 6
Active Traction Control on the front wheels 5
Full time 4WD 2
Part time 4WD 1.8
RWD Stay home.
Other important factors are ground clearance and skill. Driving in snow is like dancing. You are monitoring a lot of things at the same time, all your motions and the cars are subtle and smooth.
