you are just in denail because you bought a spec v and now you are trying to convice yourself that the msp sucks and you can't upgrade it. HAHA sorry to rain on your parade but the msp is going to be way more upgradeable than your spec v and faster. THe mazdaspeed kills the spec v, if all you want to do is not like the msp go to the spec v board and tell them how the msp sucks, because you couldn't wait for it to come out.
Comparrison MSProtege vs. RSX type-S
- Thread starter TedManEight
- Start date
MMMatHeart
Member
newf said:
What Turbo Sound on this car?
Hey, I still think the MSP is great. It is just that the spread is a little closer between the competition (except that damn SRT-4!!!!:'( ).
What slays me about the Neon is that is may even be cheaper than the MSP in Canada. RT in Canada is about $21kCAD + $3kUSD/5kCAD = $26K!! Sorry, I drifted.
I think that it's great, cause competition improves the breed!
- :
- Black tinted '02 P5
I have an even better idea.......
or....
you could forget the msp, get a pro5 or 2.0 es and get the BEGI kit from Flying Miata. they add up to the same price as an msp, gives more boost and could kill an RSX off the line. then buy the Mazda Speed adjustable shocks as well and its just like the msp only better. thats what i am doing. a grand for suspension and 4200 for turbo (includes install).
thing is i need to start saving, or i can get a personal loan..........hmmmmmmm the possibilities.....
or....
you could forget the msp, get a pro5 or 2.0 es and get the BEGI kit from Flying Miata. they add up to the same price as an msp, gives more boost and could kill an RSX off the line. then buy the Mazda Speed adjustable shocks as well and its just like the msp only better. thats what i am doing. a grand for suspension and 4200 for turbo (includes install).
thing is i need to start saving, or i can get a personal loan..........hmmmmmmm the possibilities.....
Disclaimer:
1. My seat of pant feeling is out of wack 'cause I switch between motorcycle and car.
2. My seat of pant feeling was particulary out of wack on Monday, 'cause I returned from 2 weeks of vacation, where I drove only scooter
3. My expectations of the cars are lower lately, due to previous dissapointements.
Having said that, I drove this Monday RSX-S and SPEC-V. I did not like Spec-V 'cause of imprecise steering, but I was impressed with RSX-S. Which is very strange...
Call me thorough, call me indecisive, but few months back, when looking to replace previous car, I drove Altima V6 (unfortunately auto), Pasat 1.8T and V6, Audi A4, BMW 320, Subaru WRX, Lexus IS 300, even Matrix (base model though), and was dissapointed with power of ALL these cars. Was looking for manual of course.
Now, I liked RSX-S.
Say whatever you want, but I'll make sure to do one more test of RSX-S, on the same day when going for Mazdaspeed.
1. My seat of pant feeling is out of wack 'cause I switch between motorcycle and car.
2. My seat of pant feeling was particulary out of wack on Monday, 'cause I returned from 2 weeks of vacation, where I drove only scooter
3. My expectations of the cars are lower lately, due to previous dissapointements.
Having said that, I drove this Monday RSX-S and SPEC-V. I did not like Spec-V 'cause of imprecise steering, but I was impressed with RSX-S. Which is very strange...
Call me thorough, call me indecisive, but few months back, when looking to replace previous car, I drove Altima V6 (unfortunately auto), Pasat 1.8T and V6, Audi A4, BMW 320, Subaru WRX, Lexus IS 300, even Matrix (base model though), and was dissapointed with power of ALL these cars. Was looking for manual of course.
Now, I liked RSX-S.
Say whatever you want, but I'll make sure to do one more test of RSX-S, on the same day when going for Mazdaspeed.
TedManEight
Member
I think that is a very good idea. I think my dessision is going to ride soely on the test drive. I'll give the MSP benifit of the doubt and wait for it to be at dealers and then go test the RSX and the MSP back to back. I am afraid that what ever car gives me an inntial better impression overall will win. However, what if these "impressions" are =? Well then I am screwed and I'll have to stick with the old 72' Super Beetle!!!
colin949 said:
man don't you know how to post properly or even use the edit key?
No the spec V doesn't lose to the MSP. It started the trend of affordable performance.
The MSP is upgradeable, but only very limited, ask my bro HS8, he's the expert. The Spec V by doing a 85 dollar mod (removing the balance shafts) gives the Spec 12 more whp, and about 12 ft-lb of torque to the wheels.
also..turbo kits pushing it to 275 whp...it's in the testing right now.
coilovers will make it handle as well as a MSP.
The tranny is WAY stronger than the MSP tranny therefore it can take alot more power.
the spec V is alot cheaper as well.
for the price, the car NEEDS to have a sunroof.
Some reasons for faster speeds on the MSP vs the Spec are ALSO the MSP has Bridestone's stickiest tire with a treadware of 140 compared to the crappy stock Contis on the Spec V.
whoo...how much do you know about the protege's engine...8 PSI is the max the fastest MP3 takes on it's engine...that makes what? 180 to the wheels about? Not to mention the turbo boost is LIMITED in the ECU. and that in it's stock form, it bearly meets emission standards.
hmmm....stock for stock...they are similar. If I had the cash for an RSX, it would be a WRX for me right away, or maybe even a Celica GTS with just an intake...a guy pulled 14.3 1/4 on stock tires on a 2000 model without the low rev limiter.
So...stock...yes the MSP beats the spec V in some respects, as the Spec V beats the MSP in other respects.
I don't plan to keep my car stock though. but maybe by the time I get money to mod...I'll trade in my car and get a 350 Z *Drool*
Those 350Zs are damned nice cars.
Colin you seem too thick headed to look at other cars other than the MSP. Which seems to be your freeking God. It's a car, yes OTHER CARS will be better. and OTHER CARS will be JUST as good as your MSP. don't get me wrong the MSP is a great car.
I just don't like ignorant people like you to come bash every other car that other people seem to be getting, it seems that you are the jealous one.
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The 99-00 civic Si is the one that started the trend of affordable performance, not the Spec V. Just wanted to clarify that. It is because Honda came back with the Si that made other manufacturers do the same. I am about a week away from buying a Spec V because I am tired of waiting.
aha i like the spec v i am just saying your like i am convinced the mazdaspeed is not upgradeable, and spoolin has boosted his mp3 over 20 psis beforel, by butting in new internals we have seen the protege run over 500 horsepower off a stock blocks, the mazdaspeed isn't as limited as you think it is, it has tons of potential. I did get to crazy about the spec v, its a sick car, but you are way wrong about the mazdaspeed not being upgradeable, and it does not have notchy shifting, or a bad tranny which you think it does.
colin949 said:
20 PSI RELIABLIY? that's BS. I never said the tranny is bad...just weak. It's a KNOWN fact.
Stock block..whoo...how bout pistons, and rods, and tranny and clutch etc. I'm talking STOCK internals, tranny and clutch here
exactly.
yes the Spec V's rear end is ugly, but I likethe front better.
tritonheat1
Banned
- :
- 06 MS6, 98 A4 1.8T Rebuilt
Daemos said:
20 PSI RELIABLIY? that's BS. I never said the tranny is bad...just weak. It's a KNOWN fact.
Stock block..whoo...how bout pistons, and rods, and tranny and clutch etc. I'm talking STOCK internals, tranny and clutch here
exactly.
yes the Spec V's rear end is ugly, but I likethe front better.
dude My buddy's SpecV has a weak tranny. He blew his rod a couple months back, cause he runs the car hard. he got the car on Arpil 1st 2002. Not even 4months later the rod blew out, When he took it to the dealership, he thought the warranty wasn't going to cover it cause he modded a Injen CAI, Spintech exhaust, 2" eibach springs, but lucky him he got a whole new 2003 Motor which as of today his car is at the dealership and only has had this new motor now for only like almost 2months. The dealership told him that the mass air flow sensor is getting to much cold air, which is causing it to mess up. Well i really like the SpecV and all but to sum everything up his car has been at the dealership 2times in the past 6 1/2 months now that he has owned it. If you go to b15sentra.net or .com or whatever you will know him as (onetime). So overall i wouldn't say neither the MP3 or MS-P has a weak tranny, the MS-P hasn't even hit the streets yet.
THE MSP COMES WITH A HEAVY DUTY PRESSURE PLATE FOR THE clutch, YOUR TALKINGA BOUT PROBLEMS ITH THE TRANNY, THE TRANNY IN THE MSP IS probley a little bit better than the spec v, look what happened to that guys spec v, the msp is delayed because they are fixing the cold air situation so that doesn't happen like the spec v. MAybe the mazdaspeed is my god, what makes a difference to you anyway. Your just trying to convince your self that your spec v no matter what will be better than the msp because all you can talk about is the tranny, have you ever driven the msp? the answer is no. HAVe i driven the spec v? the answer is yes. Untill you know more knowledge about the transmission you should be quiet, because you don't know about the tranny, you have never driven the car, and untill you do you drive it i suggest you get more knowledge on your subject, because all your doing is assuming problems that have happened to cars before. You can't be sure what has been done to the msp tranny yet can you? the answer is no
colin949 said:
see at times...he can't do that all the time. you run your MSP at 20 psi boost, once your engine blows I'll laugh my ass off. Reliably the stock protege engine can handle 8-9 maybe 10 psi. The Spec...around 6-7...which puts 275 (estimate) to the Wheels...right now the stage 1 turbo puts like 220 whp on like 4-5 psi of boost, with some cheap intercooler.
No the tranny in the spec V isn't weak. IT's IDENTICAL to the one in the 350Z the G35 Coupe (when the 6 speed comes out), and the Maxima.
the 2002s were plauged with endless problems, which is why everyone wants a 2003, all problems fixed, and a revised tranny for the max/spec v since the old one was clunky, and you could acctually missshift (quite easily infact), and hit like 7000 rpm which WILL damage the tranny because the car's rev limiter is 6200 rpm.
and guess what colin...I bet you travis's sentra will smoke spoolin's mp3 anyday....it runs low 13s, on RELIABLE boost, but it's a SE not a Spec V.
The spec V SHOULD with boost run reliably mid 13s easily. With just bolt ons it'll hit low 14s.
the fastest non FI spec v right now is running 14.6 seconds with just a CAI, and a mossy exhaust.
guess what...I DO know about the MSP, I don't need to drive it, have you DRIVEN it? no good...from what I've been told the MSP uses the STOCK protege tranny, and from what I've learned the stock protege tranny is weak. I've been told this by, 2 mazda dealerships, the parts departments.
get your MSP, I'm sure I'll prove who the better driver is. Cuz the Spec V vs msp...well they're pretty much equal in all respects (stock that is)
modded...for THIS thread...the RSX has MUCH better potential..hell it has better potential than like almost any car out there...if honda builds it...the aftermarket is like there 2 weeks later.
Can't say that for mazda or nissan. Toyota's aftermarket is decent.
oh yea...you still gotta learn how to use the edit key.
[edit] it's this easy [/edit]
Trust me, I'm a HUGE car freak, I get to know EVERYTHING I can about the car.
The only appeal that the MSP had for me was it was limited, and it was already modded from stock. I wasn't gonna wait for the 2003.5s to come out for a decent colour to pick...but if the 2003s do have problems...mazda better fix em by 2003.5 and replace all the 2003s...just like nissan, the 2002 models that had any trouble, have all been replaced by 2003 engines (something about burning oil), and trannys (clunky, hard to shift, and no protection from downshifting by accident).
oh yea tritonheat1 your friend isn't even registered on the sentra forums (not any of 4 of em) I've checked. Anyways his problem only affected like 3-5% of everyone who owned a spec v.
So I guess another plus to the MSP which is made in Japan
(happy colin)The Spec V's WERE made in mexico, and the cars made in mexico had the problems, so Nissan moved all production to tenasee(sp?) in the States
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TedManEight
Member
Two things.
I got in a Spec V last year some time I guess it was a 2002 and the stick felt like s***!!! I had to almost use two hands to bring it out of neutral into 1st gear. I don't know if this stick was just like that or if it just needed to be broken in. Maybe also I am a dumb ass and there is something that makes it easier when the car is acctually running, but anyway. This alone would prevent me from considering the Spec V all the way. As for the interior, the new stuff looked like it was simply cut to fit the Sentra and they just ripped out the old stuff and stuck it in. The thing I have a problem with is look and the roof and the side beams, they are still the stock beige color. WTF!!!
Anyway, my other thing I wanted to add is, For the aftermarket on the RSX. I have not found a single place where a turbo can be successfully made and tested that was for sale. Maybe, it is still too early. I was just wondering will there ever be a possibility of putting a turbo on the RSX???
Thanks for the help guys! Sorry if any of this stuff is OLD NEWS!
I got in a Spec V last year some time I guess it was a 2002 and the stick felt like s***!!! I had to almost use two hands to bring it out of neutral into 1st gear. I don't know if this stick was just like that or if it just needed to be broken in. Maybe also I am a dumb ass and there is something that makes it easier when the car is acctually running, but anyway. This alone would prevent me from considering the Spec V all the way. As for the interior, the new stuff looked like it was simply cut to fit the Sentra and they just ripped out the old stuff and stuck it in. The thing I have a problem with is look and the roof and the side beams, they are still the stock beige color. WTF!!!
Anyway, my other thing I wanted to add is, For the aftermarket on the RSX. I have not found a single place where a turbo can be successfully made and tested that was for sale. Maybe, it is still too early. I was just wondering will there ever be a possibility of putting a turbo on the RSX???
Thanks for the help guys! Sorry if any of this stuff is OLD NEWS!
- :
- Black tinted '02 P5
that was one thing Car and Driver had to say about the spec V that it was quite rough with shifting and ride quality. they loved the mp3 but the only things they didnt like was the kenwood mp3 player (buttons to small) and that the car needed more power. other then that they thought it was a gem to drive.
i really dont like where this forum is going. if you think the spec v is such a great car, go to a spec v forum. honestly its not the best car on the road, nor the worst.
oh and by the way, i would put money down on Spoolin's MP3 vs a spec v turbo anyday on a track course. any monkey who can shift can drag race. Proteges are wining races, not spec-v's.
and another thing, a low displacement engine can usually run higher rpms at increased boost levels better then a block with a greater displacement, because you can get a higher compression with a low displacement. i.e. ferrari has a 4698cc which is about 4.5L V12, at a compression ratio of i believe to be 11.3:1. a boosted 1.8 (miata) block may last longer then the boosted 2.4 spec v block because of the thrust from the piston will be more then the 1.8, which may increase bearing wear, and piston slap. and as you increase bore size, it takes longer to burn all of the fuel. and since the spec v is bored as much as it can go, any more may ruin the life of the water jacket from to much heat, and increased boost to a larger displacement may increase the chance of pre-ignition or detonation. which in turn can blow your manifold and warp it.
and this is another reason why the turbo kits and supercharger kits are in testing, and say specifically NOT to run more then 6psi on stock internals, and that my friend, is said on the kit that my friend is going to order in the next comming weeks. and i will point out when he (spec v)was trying to keep up with captainkrmp5, derrick (spec v) was in fith, downshifted to 3rd came up to captain (ken), went to fourth was going to pass him. untill ken, WAS STILL IN FIFTH just mashed the gas and left derrick almost instantly. thats BEGI power, only 6psi.
spec v running 14.6 with cai and exhaust???? seems to be streching it. the guy i know goes the the track EVERY weekend and runs 15.3 to 15.6 and his is cai and exhaust. the SRT-4 runs low 14's with 15psi, same with boosted eclipses. the spec v is a fast car i will admit but it isnt THE car. why dont you ask some of the BEGI kit owners about stomping on mustangs? or hanging with camero's and firebirds? ask them about Protege boost then speak up. i have seen the glory of the BEGI kit, and thats why i am saving up for one.
i really dont like where this forum is going. if you think the spec v is such a great car, go to a spec v forum. honestly its not the best car on the road, nor the worst.
oh and by the way, i would put money down on Spoolin's MP3 vs a spec v turbo anyday on a track course. any monkey who can shift can drag race. Proteges are wining races, not spec-v's.
and another thing, a low displacement engine can usually run higher rpms at increased boost levels better then a block with a greater displacement, because you can get a higher compression with a low displacement. i.e. ferrari has a 4698cc which is about 4.5L V12, at a compression ratio of i believe to be 11.3:1. a boosted 1.8 (miata) block may last longer then the boosted 2.4 spec v block because of the thrust from the piston will be more then the 1.8, which may increase bearing wear, and piston slap. and as you increase bore size, it takes longer to burn all of the fuel. and since the spec v is bored as much as it can go, any more may ruin the life of the water jacket from to much heat, and increased boost to a larger displacement may increase the chance of pre-ignition or detonation. which in turn can blow your manifold and warp it.
and this is another reason why the turbo kits and supercharger kits are in testing, and say specifically NOT to run more then 6psi on stock internals, and that my friend, is said on the kit that my friend is going to order in the next comming weeks. and i will point out when he (spec v)was trying to keep up with captainkrmp5, derrick (spec v) was in fith, downshifted to 3rd came up to captain (ken), went to fourth was going to pass him. untill ken, WAS STILL IN FIFTH just mashed the gas and left derrick almost instantly. thats BEGI power, only 6psi.
spec v running 14.6 with cai and exhaust???? seems to be streching it. the guy i know goes the the track EVERY weekend and runs 15.3 to 15.6 and his is cai and exhaust. the SRT-4 runs low 14's with 15psi, same with boosted eclipses. the spec v is a fast car i will admit but it isnt THE car. why dont you ask some of the BEGI kit owners about stomping on mustangs? or hanging with camero's and firebirds? ask them about Protege boost then speak up. i have seen the glory of the BEGI kit, and thats why i am saving up for one.
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- Black tinted '02 P5
uno mas
coilovers arent the ONLY answer to handling.
shock pressure and spring rate, strut bars, antisway bars. placing of the front and rear wheels, weight, power to weight, momentum and inertia, how far does the car lean back and forth from breaking and accelerating? camber and caster? wheel weight? how responsive the the steering is, alignment. all those things.
i forgot to mention something else. boost is no good if the engine cant breathe. maybe increased boost may not work with stock cams. maybe you need a longer duration on the intake stroke to allow more combustion gases to flow into the chamber? so actually adding more boost may not help at all, and your volumetric eficiency will go down because at the higher the rpm, the less time you have to fill the chamber, as the valve closes too early and in doing so you have to purge the excess pressure ie waste gate. why am i not running at full boost? because i cant due to that problem. i am tired now i am going to bed.
coilovers arent the ONLY answer to handling.
shock pressure and spring rate, strut bars, antisway bars. placing of the front and rear wheels, weight, power to weight, momentum and inertia, how far does the car lean back and forth from breaking and accelerating? camber and caster? wheel weight? how responsive the the steering is, alignment. all those things.
i forgot to mention something else. boost is no good if the engine cant breathe. maybe increased boost may not work with stock cams. maybe you need a longer duration on the intake stroke to allow more combustion gases to flow into the chamber? so actually adding more boost may not help at all, and your volumetric eficiency will go down because at the higher the rpm, the less time you have to fill the chamber, as the valve closes too early and in doing so you have to purge the excess pressure ie waste gate. why am i not running at full boost? because i cant due to that problem. i am tired now i am going to bed.
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- 09 370Z Nismo
I think a more fair comparison would be the RSX base model vs. the Mazdaspeed - seeing as the MSRP then becomes equal.
But since I used to own an Acura Integra, and still love them - I would go with the Type S, it's built as a luxury car, sold as a fast car, and the type S barely breaks into the 14's in the quarter, stock - and when it comes to honda motors, it's easy to make em faster. This is all assuming I could afford a 26,000$ car.
Maybe It's all the same reason I have a protege5, I just like hatchbacks more - like Integras (RSX). ZMaybe if it was between a mazdaspeed protege5, and an RSX TypeS, then I'd prolly go MSP5
But since I used to own an Acura Integra, and still love them - I would go with the Type S, it's built as a luxury car, sold as a fast car, and the type S barely breaks into the 14's in the quarter, stock - and when it comes to honda motors, it's easy to make em faster. This is all assuming I could afford a 26,000$ car.
Maybe It's all the same reason I have a protege5, I just like hatchbacks more - like Integras (RSX). ZMaybe if it was between a mazdaspeed protege5, and an RSX TypeS, then I'd prolly go MSP5
