Can it happen to us?

[skyhawk]

The toyota issue got me interested and googling on the subject. I'm just thinking if it is true that it is an accelerator pedal problem. Do you think it can happen to our mazda5?

They don't share designs do they?

And to think that the accelerator pedal is not part of maintenance schedule
regularly checked parts. I think they should be checked. They probably move
much more often than the brake pedal. And if they have plastic components in it, they can wear out.

====

 

[sephiroth]

The last time I checked toyota dosent have a controlling share in Mazda or any affiliation with Toyota parts design so I'm going to have to say no on this one. Just a guess...

 

[rooster]

my accelerator pedal always gets stuck when i'm driving.

stupid right foot is the problem.

although a stupid thought: if your gas pedal gets stuck, wouldn't you just throw it into neutral and turn the car off?
seems like the people that did get into accidents because of the pedal had time to find thier phone, call 911 and be able to hold a convo.

 

[sephiroth]

Throw it in neutral and then proceed to bounce the engine off the limiter until it fails isn't the ideal approach. Brake pedal and comming to a stop is the best way to handle the situation

 

[NCZ13]

Throw it in neutral and then proceed to bounce the engine off the limiter until it fails isn't the ideal approach. Brake pedal and comming to a stop is the best way to handle the situation

If its b/w engine failure, and you crashing into a wall at 90+ miles an hour, just throw it in neutral and brake, then shut the car off. fyi, the driver of the lexus this happened to was said to have been seen braking hard (as the rotors were glowing) Obviously in his panic they didnt think to put it in neutral, but not many drivers are have an understanding of putting it in neutral would do. Especially if youve never driven a manual car.

Almost all cars these days are drive by wire. Yes the "design" of a drive by wire pedal is going to be the same. Hell, the maker of the pedal could make pedals for several different companies. However its HIGHLY unlikely this is an issue youll see happen with mazdas, or we would have heard about it by now.

 

[sephiroth]

If its b/w engine failure, and you crashing into a wall at 90+ miles an hour, just throw it in neutral and brake, then shut the car off. fyi, the driver of the lexus this happened to was said to have been seen braking hard (as the rotors were glowing) Obviously in his panic they didnt think to put it in neutral, but not many drivers are have an understanding of putting it in neutral would do. Especially if youve never driven a manual car. .

Toyota's stopping tips :
Toyota also released these more detailed guidelines for an emergency stop:

* If you need to stop immediately, the vehicle can be controlled by stepping on the brake pedal with both feet using firm and steady pressure. Do not pump the brake pedal as it will deplete the vacuum utilized for the power brake assist.
* Shift the transmission gear selector to the Neutral (N) position and use the brakes to make a controlled stop at the side of the road and turn off the engine.
* If unable to put the vehicle in Neutral, turn the engine OFF. This will not cause loss of steering or braking control, but the power assist to these systems will be lost.
* If the vehicle is equipped with an Engine Start/Stop button, firmly and steadily push the button for at least three seconds to turn off the engine. Do NOT tap the Engine Start/Stop button.
* If the vehicle is equipped with a conventional key-ignition, turn the ignition key to the ACC position to turn off the engine. Do NOT remove the key from the ignition as this will lock the steering wheel.



agreed not everyone will remember to throw it in N, but also sometimes the gear selector will not be possible to throw into N either. In an emergency situation I'm not sure we ourselves as informed drivers can say with absolute certainty that we will remember ourselves if put in the same situation.

I understand you were trying to make a point too, but I don't see any of toyota's cars having the capability to run up to 90MPH when on the brakes <_<;

 

[rooster]

toyotas have a good amount of torque and once the car is rolling the engine doesn't work hard to keep it there.

having a motor bounce off the rev limiter isn't as bad as say.. going full throttle to sudden stop.. plus there's tonnes of civic drivers out there and they bounce off the rev limiters all the time.

in an auto it will always go into N no matter what. In toyotas they even have a bypass button on the auto's that'll let you move the selector into anything you want. moving to P is a bad idea.

and yes i agree in a panic situation i agree that things will be forgotten but, to make a 911 call during?
it just proves that toyota drivers tend to be the people that
A. don't know how to operate thier cars
B. didn't bother to read the manuals
C. are over all poor drivers.

 

[sephiroth]

toyotas have a good amount of torque and once the car is rolling the engine doesn't work hard to keep it there.

having a motor bounce off the rev limiter isn't as bad as say.. going full throttle to sudden stop.. plus there's tonnes of civic drivers out there and they bounce off the rev limiters all the time.

in an auto it will always go into N no matter what. In toyotas they even have a bypass button on the auto's that'll let you move the selector into anything you want. moving to P is a bad idea.

and yes i agree in a panic situation i agree that things will be forgotten but, to make a 911 call during?
it just proves that toyota drivers tend to be the people that
A. don't know how to operate thier cars
B. didn't bother to read the manuals
C. are over all poor drivers.

I agree.

 

[thorracing271]

toyotas have a good amount of torque and once the car is rolling the engine doesn't work hard to keep it there.

having a motor bounce off the rev limiter isn't as bad as say.. going full throttle to sudden stop.. plus there's tonnes of civic drivers out there and they bounce off the rev limiters all the time.

in an auto it will always go into N no matter what. In toyotas they even have a bypass button on the auto's that'll let you move the selector into anything you want. moving to P is a bad idea.

and yes i agree in a panic situation i agree that things will be forgotten but, to make a 911 call during?
it just proves that toyota drivers tend to be the people that
A. don't know how to operate thier cars
B. didn't bother to read the manuals
C. are over all poor drivers.

With that button in most new cars, moving into reverse, or any other gear that can harm you like park will usually cut engine to the power. I did this in my truck on accident once while moving from 2 to D. You of course lose your power steering and power breaks, which would freak most teens out.

 

[sephiroth]

With that button in most new cars, moving into reverse, or any other gear that can harm you like park will usually cut engine to the power. I did this in my truck on accident once while moving from 2 to D. You of course lose your power steering and power breaks, which would freak most teens out.

Power corrupts you know..

 

[skyhawk]

Too much reliance on the 'springs' to swing the pedal back to home position is I think
a faulty design. Their solution now is to move the 'stationary' plastic grove some distance away from the 'opposite moving part of the pedal'. Supposedly to remove the
possibility of 'friction' to happen.

I think their solution is not enough, and is only a stop-gap.

Murphy's law says that if those to plastic surfaces 'can touch each other' it will touch
each other. No matter how hard that metal 'piece' they are putting in as a 'permanent solution'. The approach should be that even if the surfaces touch, the pedal should not get stuck whatsoever.

 

[sephiroth]

Too much reliance on the 'springs' to swing the pedal back to home position is I think
a faulty design. Their solution now is to move the 'stationary' plastic grove some distance away from the 'opposite moving part of the pedal'. Supposedly to remove the
possibility of 'friction' to happen.

I think their solution is not enough, and is only a stop-gap.

Murphy's law says that if those to plastic surfaces 'can touch each other' it will touch
each other. No matter how hard that metal 'piece' they are putting in as a 'permanent solution'. The approach should be that even if the surfaces touch, the pedal should not get stuck whatsoever.

DBW pedal design hasn't changed for the past 10 years.. Toyota got sloppy and let quality slip for the sake of expansion, nothing more. Even the company that makes these things has said it wasn't really their fault.

 

[skyhawk]

DBW pedal design hasn't changed for the past 10 years.. Toyota got sloppy and let quality slip for the sake of expansion, nothing more. Even the company that makes these things has said it wasn't really their fault.

I'm sure DBW programmers will be 'inspired' by this incident.
The computer should not allow the following happen
all at the same time:

- Accelerator pedal requesting full throttle, and
- Brake pedal is stepped on, and
- Vehicle speed is not zero, and
- All of the above happening for certain period of time.

The above signals are readily available. The computer
however does not know what to do.

 

[sephiroth]

I'm sure DBW programmers will be 'inspired' by this incident.
The computer should not allow the following happen
all at the same time:

- Accelerator pedal requesting full throttle, and
- Brake pedal is stepped on, and
- Vehicle speed is not zero, and
- All of the above happening for certain period of time.

The above signals are readily available. The computer
however does not know what to do.

The only information available from the brakes is the brake light(which isn't indicative of how much force is being applied), otherwise modern braking systems on economy cars don't have anything else sending data to the ECM(nor do they have anything that monitors speed besides the speedometer, the engine is adjusting A/Fs according to RPM, not MPH). Besides the fact that old grandmas and wives ride the brake often. Besides those suggestions We're not talking about inherent design flaws in the design of a DBW pedal. We're talking about an incident where Toyota knowingly put low quality pedals in their vehicles against the request of the manufacturer and now they're paying the price for it. Even the 'Fix' they've implemented isn't really that great of one, they *should* replace all the units completely instead of mending the units, since the basic machine tolerances of the units their fixing are totally flawd.

 

[NCZ13]

The guy who you keep saying made the phone call had his brother with him along with i believe his daughter. The brother was the one that made the 911 call. So he wasnt the one that made the call. He was also i believe a CHP officer who honestly should have known to put the car in neutral...

I dont live that far from the road where they crashed, and i can see why they would panic, As the road dead ends into an intersection.

 

[thorracing271]

Power corrupts you know..

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[Ferdball]

1. Not sure, but it may not be possible to put a car in neutral when under full power.
2. The driver was an experienced CHP officer, but was in a rented Lexus with the push button start thing.
3. The brakes were glowing or on fire.
4. The drivers' brother in law made the call from the back seat.

 

[delsherif]

I would gladly trade in my electronic stability control (ESC) system for a gas pedal that works. Oh wait, my 2008 does not have stability control. I guess they will have to add an electronic velocity control system. (EVC?) I can't wait, how much for that option?

 

[sephiroth]

1. Not sure, but it may not be possible to put a car in neutral when under full power.
2. The driver was an experienced CHP officer, but was in a rented Lexus with the push button start thing.
3. The brakes were glowing or on fire.
4. The drivers' brother in law made the call from the back seat.

it's possible, there's no mechanical or software limiter that prevents it. it's not reccomended since you'll instantly bounce the engine off the limiter long enough to likely induce valve float, but blown engine is less expensive than dead driver, so Toyota recommends it. Experienced or not, it's unlikely that many people could retain control of themselves and understand the situation fully enough in a few seconds to realize the correct course of action, and then take that action in time.

I would gladly trade in my electronic stability control (ESC) system for a gas pedal that works

too bad, it's a federal requirement in a year or two for all cars sold in the U.S. . I suppose because people can't be trusted to know how to drive.

 

[Ferdball]

it's possible, there's no mechanical or software limiter that prevents it...

The lady who testified before congress said that she had the gear selector in beyond the N position, into the R position, but was still under power.

Also, it isn't just a few seconds in some cases. I read somewhere that someone went for 6 miles.