AWD/DSC and oversteer question

[VictorZZZ]

I just started driving a CX-5 AWD after driving a subaru STI for a while.

I know the two AWD systems are extremely different, and I'm still getting used to the CX-5, but I have some questions.
First of all, I have winter tires on, and they're fairly good and new (michelin x-ice 2 or 3, don't remember). It's the same tires I had on the STI.

It's been snowing here and it was quite slippery yesterday. I had at least 3 incidents of the back end of the CX-5 turning sideways in a slow-speed turn (turning into a different street from a stop). It might have been lift-off oversteer, but I'm not sure. all I know is I was turning into a different street from dead stop, slow speed, and almost did a 180.

First question: I read people complaining that you can't disable DSC to have "fun in the snow". From my experience yesterday you'd have a lot of fun in the snow cause the car oversteered like crazy.
So then I'm wondering, how do I know my DSC is actually working? If the DSC fuse was blown, for example, would a warning light appear?
Why do people want to remove DSC if they can induce lift-off oversteer so easily?

second question: for those of you driving in snow/ice conditions, how often do you experience any kind of oversteer in slow speed turns? I don't drive this car differently than the STI (maybe that is the problem, since that was a sports car) but I didn't get this kind of oversteer on the STI. That car had full-time AWD with limited slip differentials everywhere, and I could definitely feel the DSC system kicking in when needed. Is the AWD system difference the reason one car would lift-off oversteer less than another?

I'd like to understand if I'm doing something wrong, or if I should get the car checked out.

I have been driving in these snow conditions for at least 10 years now, and had zero such incidents with my STI, and with my mazda 3, I had one lift-off oversteer incident (that one I know 100% was caused by me pressing the clutch mid turn on ice). and now, within a few days of driving the CX-5, I have three of them, so I'm a bit concerned. Especially that this vehicle was meant for my girlfriend to drive if/when a baby has arrived.

 

[phoned]

My gut feeling is coming from a STI you are probably driving it a bit over it's limits. I haven't had any oversteer or traction issues at all this winter and we've had plenty of snow days and lots of ice build up. As lots of people have mentioned it has no problem understeering and I've had quite a bit of that a few times.

The AWD system in the CX5 shouldn't even be putting power to the rear wheels unless something on the front is slipping, so for it to lift-off oversteer it's because you are completely unbalancing the vehicle - not because of any AWD difference.

What do you consider slow turns?

 

[VictorZZZ]

slow turn means I was staring from a stop and was doing over-all maybe 10-20 km per hour.

merging onto a different street in heavy snow/ice. Don't know if I did lift my foot off the accelerator, all I know is I was starting to face the other way and had to counter steer quite a bit. It was as if I was driving RWD car.

 

[pjensen641]

I came from a modified WRX wagon (5spd 50/50 center diff) with snow tires. I was pleasantly surprised that I can swing the back end of the CX around with a slight jab of the throttle. I had to do a lot more pedaling in the WRX to get the back end around. I believe the DSC kicks in at a bit higher speeds than what are seen when taking off from a stop. As with any new car, I suggest finding a snowy parking lot where you verify there are no obstacles....and play. This is the best way to get acquainted with the winter handling and recovery characteristics of the vehicle. At slightly higher speeds I felt and heard the ABS doing its thing to correct, along with power cut. Personally I am glad that they tuned the DSC so that it isn't obtrusive. Other cars DSC is so aggressive that it allows no wheel spin. That is dangerous if you need to get out in to traffic and the DSC cuts all your power. Once you are use to it, its nice to be able to slide the back end when you need to.

In general, I think the weight balance might be a bit better on the CX-5, thus reducing the understeer tenancies. There is a lot more steel over the rear end in an SUV than in a sedan, plus the rear diff holds a clutch pack and I am sure its heavier. Also, the first gear is extremely low and there is no turbo lag. I find that the CX really takes off from a stop quite aggressively. You need to be light on the throttle. Not sure if manual mode would let you take off in second.

 

[CodyZoom]

I came from an 07 WRX and that thing was mucho fun in the snow. I could put it in a snow drift and get the back end around with a tap of the throttle. In the snow covered parking lots it almost felt rear-wheel biased.

I just saw a video that said the brand new WRXs are 55% rear drive and 45% front. I think this is the major difference in driving feel. The CX-5 ALWAYS wants the nose pointed forward. I can get it to fish tail for the life of me, other than obviously pulling the e-brake. Like others have said, it drives similar to a FWD and kicks in just a bit when needed. The "kick-in" is seemless I might add.

 

[MATR6]

The rear kicked out a bit 2 days ago while taking a left turn.
It had snowed +6" & they had not cleared the streets yet.
There was some unplowed snow on the road & I wasn't going over 15-20 mph.
I didn't feel I was loosing control of the road, just that the rear probably slid on some snow.
My coworker in an Audi TT RS with snow tires took the turn slowe than me.
I guess he's not too confident of his Quattro.

 

[kmac720]

Hey guys,

Just joined this forum as I'm considering getting a 2.5L CX-5 AWD as a new daily driver. As a couple others have posted, I'm coming from an AWD car. (The saabaru) I enjoy playing in the snow when we have it here in MI. Has anyone actually tried any drifiting with a CX-5 in an empty parking lot? Is it possible, or does the DSC kick in?

 

[VictorZZZ]

all I can say is, my CX5 seems very eager to rotate the behind.

I tried it for fun in the parking lot at work, taking a turn at 10-15 km/h on snow, tapped the brakes slightly, ass started drifting immediately.

It seems too easy for me. It's not the first car I drive, I'm not driving it differently (not at such low speeds, maneuvering in a parking lot, anyway) and it's drifting a lot more than I'm used to... Don't know what it could be. Tires are X-Ice XI3, some of the best ones in reviews.

I'll try to find empty parking lot at some point and see if I can drift consistently at higher speeds.

 

[pjensen641]

Hey guys,

Just joined this forum as I'm considering getting a 2.5L CX-5 AWD as a new daily driver. As a couple others have posted, I'm coming from an AWD car. (The saabaru) I enjoy playing in the snow when we have it here in MI. Has anyone actually tried any drifiting with a CX-5 in an empty parking lot? Is it possible, or does the DSC kick in?

Its possible, see my post above

 

[deuxdiesel]

We had yet another decent snowfall yesterday (4-5") and I can concur that the CX does oversteer in slippery conditions initially, but it straightens itself out pretty quick. Coming from a 4wd Tacoma whose dashboard would light up like Broadway at the first sign of wheel slip, I find this to be pretty nice. Our Jeep Liberty is a doughnut machine (pre-ABS and traction control) and our Golf TDi plows into every turn, even with snow tires. I find it to be a pretty predictable machine, especially compared to our other AWD cars- we had several manual Subarus (Impreza and two Foresters) and those were famous for four wheel sliding understeer.

 

[speedbegone]

I can also confirm that the CX5 awd is tail happy at low speeds turns.

i have had the same reaction has you, first big snow fall in december, I start from the stop to turn right, and I oversteered very easy... I am not used to this behavior, having only driven fwd cars before in snow (my previous car was a mazdaspeed 3 and it had the tendency to understeer in the same situation.

From what I can tell, the CX5 seems to want to give exactly the steering input in this situation, I find that turning a little less and straightening sooner in low speed turns will reduce the tendency to oversteer.

I am getting used to it, but at first it was surprising to say the least.

Its definitely something I would warn my gf about if she had to drive it in snow.

At high speeds, its very steady and predictable in the same type of snow. I only had oversteer "issues" from a stop turning into an intersection and giving it a little too much trottle and steering (this comes from my past experience from understeering vehicles in the same situations.

 

[CodyZoom]

Hey guys,

Just joined this forum as I'm considering getting a 2.5L CX-5 AWD as a new daily driver. As a couple others have posted, I'm coming from an AWD car. (The saabaru) I enjoy playing in the snow when we have it here in MI. Has anyone actually tried any drifiting with a CX-5 in an empty parking lot? Is it possible, or does the DSC kick in?

No, it is not possible. You might "drift" for a couple seconds, but you cannot hold a line in any way. The DSC kicks in and wants to straighten the car out so it plows. I've driven plenty of FWD, RWD, 4x4, and various AWD systems. This CX-5 behaves more closely to a FWD car when playing in a parking lot. My recent car was an 07' WRX and I could "drift" in the snow with ease and any speed. Drifts were easily initiated and even easier to hold for as long as you wanted. CX-5 isn't close...

 

[neelkc12]

CX-5 tail fishing at low end turns sucks . Period . That is even with most exotic of the snow tires. Totally scary.
On a straight line , even on the icy , real slick road it's a champ. Totally predictable and confident

 

[vroom]

Tires are X-Ice XI3, some of the best ones in reviews.

I've learned not to always trust reviews while shopping for tires this year. I was shopping around for the exact same tires (X-Ice XI3), and three (not one, not two) different salesmen at different reputable shops STRONGLY advised me against these tires. Reviews are good for ice and hard packed snow in controled conditions. These are the conditions the Michelins excel in. On fresh snow and slush, they are useless (or so I was told). In the end I got Nokians (Hakka R2), and love them. I did experience minor and controlable back end drift one or two times this winter, but nothing like what you describe.

 

[Dr_Watson]

From the point of view of the manufacturer, drifting is dangerous. It is fun, but for the average joe driver, cars are setup to under steer only. The cx5 is very typical of this, it is impossible to hold a drift with power. Some older cars of mine drifted like a dream, especially my WXR, spent many evenings rallying around hard packed snow on the industrial estate, my golf r32 was not as much fun, the haldex AWD took a lot of effort but very under steer biased. Cx5 is a family car so the software is setup for under steer.
Now if only winter would start here I could test it some more! Think they cancelled winter this year and just battered the uk with wet storms instead!

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Just for s**** I turned the dsc on during a curve I take to school (unless its icy I always have dsc off). Going about 65 I hit a partof it where the surface changes texture and the dsc tried to make me come out of the turn (the grass).

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Oh nvm that was tcs

 

[kmac720]

Its possible, see my post above

It sounds like from other posts it's not possible. (I'm talking sustained drifting, not kick the back end out for a split second.) Thanks for the input guys! It's too bad Mazda didn't make the DSC able to be disabled, I guess I'll look at different vehicles.

 

[Beefy]

It sounds like from other posts it's not possible. (I'm talking sustained drifting, not kick the back end out for a split second.) Thanks for the input guys! It's too bad Mazda didn't make the DSC able to be disabled, I guess I'll look at different vehicles.

It is worth remembering that DSC is mandatory by law on new vehicles in many countries. For better or worse, adding the ability to disable it is legally problematic.

*

And I should add, yes, I have found it surprisingly easy to pop out the tail of the CX-5 in corners if you overcook it, particularly low speed sharp maneuvers on snow/ice...... but she comes back very quickly and very predictably.

 

[kmac720]

It is worth remembering that DSC is mandatory by law on new vehicles in many countries. For better or worse, adding the ability to disable it is legally problematic.

*

And I should add, yes, I have found it surprisingly easy to pop out the tail of the CX-5 in corners if you overcook it, particularly low speed sharp maneuvers on snow/ice...... but she comes back very quickly and very predictably.

I actually don't see how that is worth remembering. Also allowing the ability to disable DSC has zero legal issues. Hence why a ton of vehicles made in 2014 still have the ability.