A camber arm is not called a camber arm by where it's mounted on a car, it's called a camber arm because IT WILL MOVE CAMBER MORE THAN ANY OTHER ADJUSTER ON THE VEHICLE.
I would suspect that the placement chosen for an aftermarket camber arm is the place that would give the most adjustment then.. that would make sense lol. Apparently hardrace didn't think lower location was the most ideal for camber adjustment, hence they are developing an arm for the upper location.
When I put that part (upper, camber arm) on my car it certainly will adjust camber more than any other parts... if I put the toe arm on, sure it will adjust camber more than anything since OEM is not adjustable.. then it just becomes semantics.. however the hard race "toe arm" is intended to adjust toe and camber adjustment is there because of how it's located. But the addition of an adjustable camber arm replacing the rear upper arm gives more adjustment, which is probably why hardrace didn't label their toe arm a camber arm, even though it could generate sales for them. There may not even be a safe amount of thread left when using that toe arm to adjust a negative camber. I have coil overs sitting in house waiting to install; so my rear camber will need even more available adjustment.. Personally I'll wait for the purpose made part.
I never referred to anything as a toe arm aside from the toe adjustment arm referenced from hardrace. Basically you said that either one, the toe (as called by hardrace) or the camber arm can be used to adjust camber to varying degrees. In our situation, and based on what you said, since the oem "rear upper arm" has no adjustment, adjusting the toe slightly makes that (the lower arm) the "camber arm". That being said most of the after market camber I find for Japanese cars with similar suspension use the upper arm for camber adjustment and the lower for toe. That includes parts manufactured for drift cars etc where alignment is way more important than preventing premature tire wear. I mean, if the lower bar is more ideal for camber adjustment, I would expect the large amount of aftermarket camber adjustments for Japanese mulitlinks cars to be a the bottom and not the top instead of vice versa (toe and camber arms).
You gave examples of how you can slightly adjust camber with using other parts of the suspension; yes there are multiple ways to do so, and for most of us that are lowered these tricks that aligment shops try od not completely remedy the problem (if it can really be called a problem). I would not be surprised if that hardrace toe arm would allow enough camber adjustment to even out our rear camber. I myself am not interested in finding out if it will extend far enough (
with enough thread left) to do so. Tibimaki on the other hand has fabbed his own, to specification specifically to adjust his camber so I would expect it to suit his needs. I'd rather wait the half a month or so and get a part that is designed to give a specific range of adjustment, most likely greater than the toe arm and with enough thread left.
All that post did was in a nutshell say that camber can be adjusted multiple ways, and that the "camber arm" is where you can get the most adjustment. So yes by you saying "the camber arms is where you have the most adjustment"; when adding a toe arm into the OEM setup, sure you can call it the camber arm, even though that is not the primary/intended function. I would say that you calling the hard race "toe arm" a camber arm (just because it has the capability to do so), is misinformation. I can use my ebrake to stop/slow down at low speeds instead of my foot brake.. doesn't mean it's as effective lol. Being ASE certified is great, and I wouldn't dispute for a minute that you know more about cars than I do (or probably ever will) but it doesn't not mean your word is infallible. It would mean the many company offering camber arms and toe arms in the same configuration for multiple cars, for years are all wrong and don't know what they are selling(dunno)
So Skorpio, if I've read this correctly, this means (assuming Hardrace's arm is properly designed and manufactured) that our search for the Holy Grail of rear camber adjustment is over?
Absolutely not. In addition to what I said above, don't forget Mazstyle had his camber corrected by using the JBR Mazda3/6 rear camber arm (hmm another arm designed specifically for camber adjustment that replaces the "rear upper arm") by lengthening it. That picture is posted. I also have the JBR arm, and it actually fits with some adjustment (test fit also pictured), with no modification. However, it is at it's limits of what one could consider safe thread if you were go negative camber. I decided not to modify mine in the manner as mazstyle because I could not find a local machine shop that seemed like they could match the quality of his machinists. As skorp said "THE ADJUSTER THAT MOVES CAMBER THE MOST IS TECHNICALLY CALLED THE "CAMBER ARM/ECCENTRIC/ROD ETC. A camber arm is not called a camber arm by where it's mounted on a car, it's called a camber arm because IT WILL MOVE CAMBER MORE THAN ANY OTHER ADJUSTER ON THE VEHICLE.
Any business can call it whatever they want, but from a mechanical view it is not." <- last part is semantics If it adjusts camber the most, how is it a business calling it whatever they want? So.. if the upper camber is moving camber more than any other part on the car.. how is it NOT a camber arm??? If you put the toe arm on your car and it becomes the camber arm, how much adjustment will it give (and safely) considering it's designed mainly for toe adjustment?
For the record, I am not in the habit of improperly modding my car. Every issue that has come up as a result of an aftermarket parts has been addressed. Even powertrain the bolt ons I installed been accounted for with a tune. The lowering springs are the only example of that that even comes close, with the slight off camber which has proven not be enough of a factor to ruin (my) tires. My tires are just now getting replaced at 50k. The absence of a proper camber adjustment is the reason I have a set of $1000 coilovers sitting uninstalled since about march (because I want to go lower and I know the camber will be off more). If you want insight, you can look at my build thread and see. I have modified parts and purchased additional parts (yes, auto exe end links that cost me about as much to modify as it did to buy them + the Hotchkiss brackets to go on the sway bar) to make everything work properly. I sure as hell wouldn't be spreading misinformation to other members who are looking for the same solutions I am. I'm not talking about semantics here of "what a business says vs the mechanical aspect" I'm talking about what joe bag of donuts would need to rectify the situation at hand, not "well technically you can use this part". I already went that route with the mz6/3 camber arm and decided no. Now, if that toe arm was the only thing available and hardrace had no intention of releasing a camber arm as they claim, (I don't know of any other company who is doing so) then yes I would have bought the part and gave my feedback on how much adjustment can be achieved. I previously expressed interest in the part Tibimaki made (if he ever tests it lol).
