CX-5: How's the AWD do in winter? Is it fun to drive?

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Backgrund:
I want to sell my '12 2dr Jeep Wrangler and am shopping for a small SUV with AWD. (My Jeep just doesn't have any room, the ride is just too harsh for everyday driving and I just don't do any offroading)

I want good winter AWD performance, some fun to drive and room for my Golden Retriever and some gear in the back. Subarus are being considered but they just seem so boring. (Forester/Crosstrek)

1. How does the Mazda AWD system perform compared to Subaru's system?

2. Is the 2.5 engine enough to provide any "fun to drive"?

3. Any regrets with the CX-5?

TIA
 
I have had mine thru one winter and it was fun once in a while. I did some doughnuts in the snow just to see and the CX-5 would do it, and drift too, but the snow conditions had to just right.
 
Backgrund:
I want to sell my '12 2dr Jeep Wrangler and am shopping for a small SUV with AWD. (My Jeep just doesn't have any room, the ride is just too harsh for everyday driving and I just don't do any offroading)

I want good winter AWD performance, some fun to drive and room for my Golden Retriever and some gear in the back. Subarus are being considered but they just seem so boring. (Forester/Crosstrek)
The Forester 2.0XT is not boring.

1. How does the Mazda AWD system perform compared to Subaru's system?
It's not as good, but people seem to view it as adequate.
2. Is the 2.5 engine enough to provide any "fun to drive"?
I find mine fun and enjoyable. I used to own a POS Jeep, too. A 2010 Grand Jeep Cherokee w/HEMI. I couldn't get rid of that junk fast enough.
3. Any regrets with the CX-5?
So far, no.
TIA
I find my CX-5 fun for what it is. It handles very well for an SUV, and the 4 cylinder has a ton of low-end tq for a 4 cylinder. It doesn't "hunt" for gears.
 
1. How does the Mazda AWD system perform compared to Subaru's system?

Subaru has multiple AWD systems, they all perform well in the snow. Snow performance has little to do with the AWD system (assuming it's reasonably modern) and everything to do with tires.

2. Is the 2.5 engine enough to provide any "fun to drive"?

Yes, even the 2.0L is fun to drive in a sporting manner. Neither will suck you back into your seat in a dramatic fashion but of course you knew that. The Subaru models you mention also have great reliability records but, if you're looking for "fun to drive", there is no comparison to the CX-5. The Subaru's isolate the driver from the road and this does not lead to as much driver confidence as the CX-5 provides, especially in winter conditions. But if "fun to drive" primarily means "provides a blast of strong acceleration, you will not get it from any car in this class and price range. Disclaimer: I personally believe power is the most over-rated automobile metric ever. And I've driven and ridden plenty of truly fast cars and motorcycles.

3. Any regrets with the CX-5?

No regrets. If I crashed my CX-5 tomorrow, I would immediately start looking for another low mileage 2013 CX-5 2.0L AWD. The lighter engine is better for my needs and wants (for a host of reasons) and I don't think the 2.0L engine is available with AWD on models after 2013. I would forgo the GPS but the Xenon headlights came bundled with the tech package and I need the good headlights so I would just have to live with the useless TomTom GPS. But there is no other car out there at any price that meets all my needs and requirements so well.
 
While Mike is right about tires being a big deal, the Mazda awd system is not as capable as jeep, audi, subaru, and other real awd systems. All of those drive all 4 tires. The mazda just drives two, and when it detects slip, transfers power to the rear. This is especially inferior at low speeds, as traction on slick surfaces is about slow and easy, not transfer of power and shock loading etc. Think of it like catching a falling weight by a thin rope with your bare hands. Jeep and audi and subaru never let the weight fall. Mazda does, and then you have to catch it.

Just physics.

That said....how good is mazda at gently catching it? How much does this matter in the real world? I honestly don't know. I do know I've seen a cx5 fail miserably where a subaru had no issue. Same tires.
 
While Mike is right about tires being a big deal, the Mazda awd system is not as capable as jeep, audi, subaru, and other real awd systems. All of those drive all 4 tires. The mazda just drives two, and when it detects slip, transfers power to the rear. This is especially inferior at low speeds, as traction on slick surfaces is about slow and easy, not transfer of power and shock loading etc. Think of it like catching a falling weight by a thin rope with your bare hands. Jeep and audi and subaru never let the weight fall. Mazda does, and then you have to catch it.

Just physics.

That said....how good is mazda at gently catching it? How much does this matter in the real world? I honestly don't know. I do know I've seen a cx5 fail miserably where a subaru had no issue. Same tires.
This is a good anecdote. With my tune, I can break traction at 0-~30-40 mph under the right load/shift point. When the rear kicks in I can feel the awd push, not smooth, but not complaining.. it's as close as I'll get to a rwd cx-5 lol.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW9uaW58Qfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLkvqsQEV2Q

Basically proves what I've been saying. The CX-5 is a soccer-mom "AWD" system. If you stay on the pavement and don't ask too much of it, it should do great. That's really all I expect of mine, anyway. If you want a legtimate AWD system, you need an Audi, Subaru, Jeep (don't do that.), or something that actually IS AWD.

Off-road is kinda subjective IMO... Are we talking forest service roads, driveway, trails, deep snow, mud bogs, rock crawling..etc? There are limits to all if the ground clearance isn't there. The ATTESA system in my Infiniti is very capable but I am sure I would tear a hole in my oil pan in short order if I got too crazy off road.
 
Off-road is kinda subjective IMO... Are we talking forest service roads, driveway, trails, deep snow, mud bogs, rock crawling..etc? There are limits to all if the ground clearance isn't there. The ATTESA system in my Infiniti is very capable but I am sure I would tear a hole in my oil pan in short order if I got too crazy off road.


Mainly I mean anything slippery. Mud or snow, specifically. The Forester will just flat out-perform anything else in this category and price-range. IN THOSE SPECIFIC INSTANCES. The rest of the time is why I bought the CX-5. It does okay in low-traction environment from what I've seen, but it excels at everything else, while the forester seems "ho-hum" and has a CVT and oil burning issues.
 
While Mike is right about tires being a big deal, the Mazda awd system is not as capable as jeep, audi, subaru, and other real awd systems. All of those drive all 4 tires. The mazda just drives two, and when it detects slip, transfers power to the rear. This is especially inferior at low speeds, as traction on slick surfaces is about slow and easy, not transfer of power and shock loading etc. Think of it like catching a falling weight by a thin rope with your bare hands. Jeep and audi and subaru never let the weight fall. Mazda does, and then you have to catch it.


Actually, Subaru has at least 3 different AWD systems, all marketed by Subaru as "symmetrical AWD" and which one you get depends upon the model and even the trim level. There are advantages and disadvantages to all of them but their newer systems have moved to computer controlled electronic multi-plate clutches to change torque distribution which has important advantages including a faster reaction time. A common misconception is that the microsecond delay that occurs with the Mazda system somehow cripples it at low speeds or on slippery surfaces. That's just not true (regardless of Subaru's implication otherwise).

One primary problem with the purely mechanical viscous center coupling used by Subaru on many models/trims is that it is much slower to transfer torque via purely mechanical means (no computer) and it is incredibly inefficient and robs power, one reason why many Subaru's feel so gutless in real life relative to their HP ratings and why Subaru is transitioning to computer controlled multi-plate clutches for torque distribution when slip is detected. Also, on extremely slippery surfaces this type of system creates a small and unavoidable amount of "binding" which actually makes the car less sure-footed negotiating icy corners. It can actually induce a slide. The Mazda entirely avoids this issue which is more important from a safety standpoint for almost every driver out there than some small advantage in being slightly better at hill climbing.

Also, Subaru has recognized the advantages of front-biased torque and are designing their newest systems to bias the torque to the front wheels when no slippage is detected. But all wheels are still driven full time which is still quite wasteful and robs power in normal driving which is over 99.9% of the time for almost all drivers.

Read about the details here if you don't believe me:

http://www.cnet.com/news/not-every-subaru-all-wheel-drive-system-is-created-equal/


That said....how good is mazda at gently catching it? How much does this matter in the real world? I honestly don't know.

With computers becoming faster all the time, and with electricity moving at the speed of light, electronically distributed torque systems act more quickly than mechanical means and this has been true for a number or years now. In recent years, the resolution of wheel sensors is constantly increasing and electronic clutches have become even faster and more progressive, further increasing the disadvantages of purely mechanical systems and viscous couplings(which is why Subaru has been introducing these items and adding complexity to their Symmetrical AWD systems for a few years now. While complex hybrid systems using both electronic clutches for lightning fast torque redistribution and hydraulic center differentials for more flexible and full-time four wheel drive have some small advantages in terms of sheer climbing ability, they have no advantage, and some very real disadvantages, in terms of simply driving on icy highways.

And then there is the weight, complexity, expense and fuel and tire wear inefficiency of full time AWD to be considered. The Mazda system is mechanically simply and lightning fast, 2WD 99.9% of the time for fuel efficiency and tire wear advantages and yet is AWD when needed to avoid the problems by only having FWD or RWD. I also like that the Mazda system is non-binding on icy roads and thus will never induce a slide in a fast turn due to slight binding between the front/rear. Yes, the Subaru can detect the slide and apply corrections (if it is one of the newer systems with computer torque vectoring) but this kind of slide on very slippery surfaces is difficult to detect by wheel speed sensors and, once initiated, it may be too slippery to correct.

Both systems have advantages and disadvantages but, IMO and experience, I like the "hands off until necessary" approach of the CX-5 over the viscous center differentials.
 
Backgrund:
I want to sell my '12 2dr Jeep Wrangler and am shopping for a small SUV with AWD. (My Jeep just doesn't have any room, the ride is just too harsh for everyday driving and I just don't do any offroading)

I want good winter AWD performance, some fun to drive and room for my Golden Retriever and some gear in the back. Subarus are being considered but they just seem so boring. (Forester/Crosstrek)

1. How does the Mazda AWD system perform compared to Subaru's system?

2. Is the 2.5 engine enough to provide any "fun to drive"?

3. Any regrets with the CX-5?

TIA

this thread should answer your questions:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...-5-in-the-Winter-Snow!-AWD-Success!-LONG-READ
 
Basically proves what I've been saying. The CX-5 is a soccer-mom "AWD" system. If you stay on the pavement and don't ask too much of it, it should do great. That's really all I expect of mine, anyway. If you want a legtimate AWD system, you need an Audi, Subaru, Jeep (don't do that.), or something that actually IS AWD.
I still think AWD is different from 4WD system even today. A basic 4WD system will have some kind of dedicated transfer case with a separate low-range gear that allows the driver to multiply the transmission and ring-and-pinion gearing to provide for more control of the vehicle. Jeep has a true 4WD system which is for serious off-road use. Audi's Quattro AWD system and Subaru Symmetrical AWD system is just more sophisticated for average use on the road if they can preform better than our CX-5 Active Torque Split AWD system.
 
My CX-5 purchase 1 year anniversary of purchasing it is tomorrow(May 31st), and as soon as I get a vehicle, I'm continuously researching my next. So far the leading vehicle is exactly what I purchased 1 year ago. Other than the Infotainment eMail/SMS issues, I love everything else about it!!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW9uaW58Qfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLkvqsQEV2Q

Basically proves what I've been saying. The CX-5 is a soccer-mom "AWD" system. If you stay on the pavement and don't ask too much of it, it should do great. That's really all I expect of mine, anyway. If you want a legtimate AWD system, you need an Audi, Subaru, Jeep (don't do that.), or something that actually IS AWD.

This is hilarious! You used two Subaru u-tube ads with paid actors and paid "testers" (paid by Subaru) to demonstrate Subaru's superiority as proof that it's true. Is everyone in Arkansas this gullible? Are you seriously telling us you couldn't tell these ads were pure, unadulterated propaganda? Or were you swayed over by clever use of words like "law enforcement officers", "real world", "without playing favorites" and "random order".

You did know that President Obama is on the verge of taking over Texas using Federal agents on a "training" mission as a guise? Yup, they have secret tunnels built under all the abandoned Walmart's where the Federal Troops are basing operations out of. Then Texas will be taken over by the Feds. Don't believe me? Google it! Seriously, the only reason it hasn't already happened is the recent floods filled all the secret tunnels with water and fouled the Feds plan. See, this is proof god exists. God loves Texas and sent the floods. It's obvious!

Seriously, a paramedic and 5 cops paid to partake? We all know policeman would never lie, right? Especially when money is involved.

Sheesh! I'm afraid for this Country when we have so many who can't distinguish fact from paid propaganda. Sad :-(
 
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I still think AWD is different from 4WD system even today.

Very true, that's why one is called 4WD and the other is called AWD. In many ways, AWD is more advantageous.

Nobody buys a small cross-over because they want to do serious off-roading. The original poster was asking about the CX-5's winter AWD performance. And it's very capable at that.
 
Thanks for all the input.

I agree that dedicated winter tires, proper winter driving skills and the good judgement to know when NOT to venture out are more important then the specific type of AWD system. I just want to ensure that Mazda's system is fairly capable and it sounds like it is.

I just got back from two test drives. A Mazda CX-5 vs. a Subaru Crosstrek. IMHO the Mazda did everything better . It was quieter, faster and seemed to handle better. It was much more responsive then I expected with the 2.5. The Subaru seemed somewhat primitive - kind of hard to explain. (maybe the Outback would have been a better choice for a test drive matchup.)

I'll probably get the Mazda.
 
i like driving in the winter. If there is 8 in of new snow in the morning I will skip breakfast to get out there and play. I like driving a good handeling car hard but in good weather you can't unless you are on a track.

I put the best snow tires I can find on my CX-5 and have a blast. I recommend it.
 
Actually, Subaru has at least 3 different AWD systems, all marketed by Subaru as "symmetrical AWD" and which one you get depends upon the model and even the trim level. There are advantages and disadvantages to all of them but their newer systems have moved to computer controlled electronic multi-plate clutches to change torque distribution which has important advantages including a faster reaction time. A common misconception is that the microsecond delay that occurs with the Mazda system somehow cripples it at low speeds or on slippery surfaces. That's just not true (regardless of Subaru's implication otherwise). I haven't compared them myself, but the video's I have seen and every single comparison of the two on reduced friction surfaces indicates otherwise.

One primary problem with the purely mechanical viscous center coupling used by Subaru on many models/trims is that it is much slower to transfer torque via purely mechanical means (no computer) and it is incredibly inefficient and robs power, one reason why many Subaru's feel so gutless in real life relative to their HP ratings and why Subaru is transitioning to computer controlled multi-plate clutches for torque distribution when slip is detected. Also, on extremely slippery surfaces this type of system creates a small and unavoidable amount of "binding" which actually makes the car less sure-footed negotiating icy corners. It can actually induce a slide. The Mazda entirely avoids this issue which is more important from a safety standpoint for almost every driver out there than some small advantage in being slightly better at hill climbing.

Also, Subaru has recognized the advantages of front-biased torque and are designing their newest systems to bias the torque to the front wheels when no slippage is detected. But all wheels are still driven full time which is still quite wasteful and robs power in normal driving which is over 99.9% of the time for almost all drivers.
I dunno...my Jeep was like that, 52/48 torque split and it got it's EPA rated mileage on the freeway, which was within about 1mpg of the non-AWD version. Mazda gives up 2mpg on the freeway for their AWD...

Read about the details here if you don't believe me:

http://www.cnet.com/news/not-every-subaru-all-wheel-drive-system-is-created-equal/




With computers becoming faster all the time, and with electricity moving at the speed of light, electronically distributed torque systems act more quickly than mechanical means and this has been true for a number or years now. In recent years, the resolution of wheel sensors is constantly increasing and electronic clutches have become even faster and more progressive, further increasing the disadvantages of purely mechanical systems and viscous couplings(which is why Subaru has been introducing these items and adding complexity to their Symmetrical AWD systems for a few years now. While complex hybrid systems using both electronic clutches for lightning fast torque redistribution and hydraulic center differentials for more flexible and full-time four wheel drive have some small advantages in terms of sheer climbing ability, they have no advantage, and some very real disadvantages, in terms of simply driving on icy highways.

And then there is the weight, complexity, expense and fuel and tire wear inefficiency of full time AWD to be considered. The Mazda system is mechanically simply and lightning fast, 2WD 99.9% of the time for fuel efficiency and tire wear advantages and yet is AWD when needed to avoid the problems by only having FWD or RWD. I also like that the Mazda system is non-binding on icy roads and thus will never induce a slide in a fast turn due to slight binding between the front/rear. Yes, the Subaru can detect the slide and apply corrections (if it is one of the newer systems with computer torque vectoring) but this kind of slide on very slippery surfaces is difficult to detect by wheel speed sensors and, once initiated, it may be too slippery to correct.
Allegedly my Jeep could "bind", as it has ELSD's front and rear, but I never experienced that. Even power-sliding it around corners in the rain with the TC on. Now I have read some owners have, and recommended being very careful lest it upset the vehicle. Again, that said, I agree with you. I prefer a non-binding potential myself. However...what harm is binding...it's just shock-loading on a slick surface. Kindof like Mazda's AWD ;)

Both systems have advantages and disadvantages but, IMO and experience, I like the "hands off until necessary" approach of the CX-5 over the viscous center differentials.

Noone reputable even uses viscous center diffs anymore. Hell, even Jeep stopped back when, in 2003 or something? Subaru only uses them in their manuals, I believe. They are a thing of the past, and I agree with you that this is a good thing.
 
I still think AWD is different from 4WD system even today. A basic 4WD system will have some kind of dedicated transfer case with a separate low-range gear that allows the driver to multiply the transmission and ring-and-pinion gearing to provide for more control of the vehicle. Jeep has a true 4WD system which is for serious off-road use. Audi's Quattro AWD system and Subaru Symmetrical AWD system is just more sophisticated for average use on the road if they can preform better than our CX-5 Active Torque Split AWD system.
Agreed, you have all-time 4WD, like Jeep, which offers 100% torque to any wheel, and/or a low-range.
Then you have the Audi/Subaru stuff, which is all-time AWD, and can offer torque biasing based on conditions, and always drives all wheels.
Then you have Toyota, Mazda, etc. which offer the weakest AWD system capable of technically being called AWD. It's in the same league as calling the fat pedal on the left "hill descent mode", lol, but it should be sufficient for 90% of users.
 
This is hilarious! You used two Subaru u-tube ads with paid actors and paid "testers" (paid by Subaru) to demonstrate Subaru's superiority as proof that it's true. Is everyone in Arkansas this gullible? Are you seriously telling us you couldn't tell these ads were pure, unadulterated propaganda? Or were you swayed over by clever use of words like "law enforcement officers", "real world", "without playing favorites" and "random order".

You did know that President Obama is on the verge of taking over Texas using Federal agents on a "training" mission as a guise? Yup, they have secret tunnels built under all the abandoned Walmart's where the Federal Troops are basing operations out of. Then Texas will be taken over by the Feds. Don't believe me? Google it! Seriously, the only reason it hasn't already happened is the recent floods filled all the secret tunnels with water and fouled the Feds plan. See, this is proof god exists. God loves Texas and sent the floods. It's obvious!

Seriously, a paramedic and 5 cops paid to partake? We all know policeman would never lie, right? Especially when money is involved.

Sheesh! I'm afraid for this Country when we have so many who can't distinguish fact from paid propaganda. Sad :-(
Is everyone in Washington state incapable of understanding that a system which drives all wheels, all the time, is going to provide better traction than one that says "oh crap!" once wheels are already slipping?

Why don't you find me some evidence of your own that the CX-5's system is better than Subaru's for slick surfaces. I'll be waiting for this comparison video...

Seriously, find such a video so I can take you seriously.

It sounds to me like you are emotionally bias because if your financial investment (CX-5 owner).
 
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