Phantom Grip
- Thread starter twilightprotege
- Start date
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
thanks ghost for that very informative post
twilightprotege said:
Phantom=Great inexpensive alternative
Can't handle power like other two because uses oem spidergears
Don't know if it will last as long as others
Not as good turn in as quaife
Quaife=Great turn in
Can handle power
Cost alot
Complicated gearing so more chances to break stuff
Aftermarket diffs come in two basic flavors: clutch-type diffs like the KAAZ or Cusco units, or helical-gear differentials like the Quaife. Which is best depends on what you want to do.
In a clutch-type diff, the stack of clutch plates actually touch each other, and as torque is applied, they get rammed together even harder. This makes a clutch-type diff fast to react, since it only takes torque, not an actual change in wheel speed, to make the diff tighten. There's also some base resistance, depending on how much pre-load is on the clutch pack.
Another clutch diff advantage is adjustability. You can change how many plates are used and you can adjust the pre-load on the plates. Each adjustment requires a teardown, but at least it can be done.
The Quaife differential works on an entirely different principal. Each axle is attached to a gear, called the sun gear, and each sun gear has several small gears around it called planet gears. The planet gears from one side mesh with the planet gears from the other side, so when you put both drive wheels in the air and turn the left wheel clockwise, the left planet gears turn counterclockwise. They turn the right planet gears clockwise, which turn the right wheel counterclockwise. In other words, the wheels spin in opposite directions just like a normal open differential.
The magic comes from all the gears having their teeth cut helically. That means the teeth are angled so that if the gear were long like a log, the gears would spiral around the log in a helix. When you put a big load on a pair of helically cut gears, there's a reaction force pushing them sideways.
The gear teeth meet at an angle, and when you try to push straight through an angled interface like that, you get shoved sideways. The latch on the front door of your house works the same way. Close the door until the latch touches the striker plate and you have a similarly angled interface. Push straight on the door, and the sideways reaction force pushes the latch into the door. In a helical differential like the Quaife, the reaction force shoves the sun and planet gears sideways, where they rub against the ends of their housings. This rubbing encourages both wheels to turn together.
The reaction force only happens if there's some resistance to your shove, though. If there was no resistance in our door latch example, the doorframe would just fall over. If there's no resistance from the other gear, it will just turn. This is why, technically, a helical limited slip isn't really a limited slip. Put one wheel on ice and the other on pavement, and there won't be enough resistance to prevent all the power from going to the ice.
This is why Quaife prefers the term "torque-biasing differential." Put both tires on pavement and go around a corner, however, and if the engineers who picked the gear angles did their jobs, the gears will send more torque to the grippier outside tire in just the right proportions to keep the inside tire from spinning.
Horrors of Phoney grip....
Nossy said:Ladies and Gentleman welcome to "NAME THOSE CHUNKS OF METAL!!!!" I'm your host Nossy, for todays show we will show you a picture...if you guess where they came from you win a smiley!!!
If you guessed phantom grip equipped differential you're right!
Somehow I think there are supposed to be more teeth on these gears...
Nailed the countershaft...I was going to use the countershaft and final drive in the gf's ep3 but not now...
Nothing really screams out to me for sure that it was the phantom grip that caused the gears to shatter but I'm sure it was putting quite a bit more stress on them...if anyone was doubting whether or not I "blew my tranny"...ok...I didn't blow my tranny apparantly...but I grenaded my differential...
Is this better for you twilightprotege?
Last edited:
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
much better yes.
but i have one thing to point out to everyone about that picture. yes it looks bad, but the PG was incorrectly installed. the spider gears at the top and bottom are required to be grinded to give a larger flatter area. picture 4 shows that this has not been done.
i'm still interested to see if anyone has tried it on a mazda diff with the PG correctly installed.
ps - dont you have how honda diffs look basically the same as ours???? interesting....
but i have one thing to point out to everyone about that picture. yes it looks bad, but the PG was incorrectly installed. the spider gears at the top and bottom are required to be grinded to give a larger flatter area. picture 4 shows that this has not been done.
i'm still interested to see if anyone has tried it on a mazda diff with the PG correctly installed.
ps - dont you have how honda diffs look basically the same as ours???? interesting....
That does kind of worry me, but the part has already been ordered. I dont like to see that!! But the MSP LSD has snapped in multiple threads, I think it all is based on how hard you push it and with how much power. I dont plan to do much more power/hp modding so I think/ I hope I will be OK!
