Changing oil in a CX-5 Turbo. Did the salesguy blow smoke up my tailpipe?

ruthrj said:
They suckered my mother in law into getting an extended tire warranty *facepalm*. I was there to talk her out of the service plan but she wouldnt listen to me on the tires.

Finance guy asked why we didnt want to pay ahead for service, and I said its becuase Im doing the maintenance. But youll void the warranty!

I was not a fan of that dude.
Click to expand...

ColoradoDriver said:
$90 for an oil change is highway robbery considering you can get a 5qt jug from walmart for around $25. A Mazda filter for under $10 (if you have a good source), or comparable Wix 57002 filter. And a new crush washer for $1 or less.

As for filling the filter, I do, but I know plenty don't, so I don't think it's going to matter really.
Click to expand...

You can get 5 quarts of Idemitsu Zepro for $34.95 which is the exact same oil as the Mazda brand Moly oil the dealerships sell, although if the dealer is doing your oil changes, more likely they are using cheaper Castrol Edge or Syntec.

https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)

You can get the OE SkyActiv oil filters for $8.99/ea and even cheaper if you buy in bulk.

https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)
 
JRM1022 said:
You can get 5 quarts of Idemitsu Zepro for $34.95 which is the exact same oil as the Mazda brand Moly oil the dealerships sell, although if the dealer is doing your oil changes, more likely they are using cheaper Castrol Edge or Syntec.

https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)

You can get the OE SkyActiv oil filters for $8.99/ea and even cheaper if you buy in bulk.

https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)
Click to expand...

Thank you for that. I have a mild concern in buying in bulk, since I won't have a dated receipt for every change (for warranty purposes).
 
Believe it or not, synthetic oil change is about $90 nowadays in SF Bay Area with coupon.
Some even charge $100. No tire rotation.
One time, they made a mistake by posting a $49 oil change coupon on MazdaUsa.com.
I brought it to the dealership. The advisor told me that, they would lose money with that price.
We eventually settled with $69 with tire rotation...

Oh, they also charge cabin air filter change for $80. That is a real highway robbery... :)
 
Changing oil in a CX-5 Turbo. Did the salesguy blow smoke up my tailpipe?

Avoidin Deer said:
I've usually done my own oil changes, and while I lube the seal, I've never pre-filled the filter. I put in the amount called for when you change the oil and the filter, then start the engine and let it idle for a minute or two to fill the filter. I turn off the engine, let it sit for a minute or two, then check the level. That being said, I see no reason to NOT pre-fill the filter. I just see no compelling reason to do it.
Click to expand...
You'll be surprised if you put in the oil amount called for - not going to reach to the Full mark of the dipstick like you've got used to on every other vehicle. In fact, it'd be about quart short!

And if you use non-value-line Mazda OEM oil filter made in Thailand by Denso, you don't need to lube the seal. The grease is already applied to the seal.

Oil filter can't always be pre-filled with fresh oil depending on its orientation. Many are mounted horizontally and there's no way to pre-fill. I pre-fill oil for my CX-5 as it's doable, but I really don't think it matters as the oil should fill up the empty oil filter within a second, and all the residue of oil inside of engine would keep all parts lubricated for many seconds.

Yes, $90 per oil change is ridiculous for a special maintenance deal. My Mazda dealer charges $60 for oil change with Castrol oil; $10 more with Mazda moly oil.
 
Avoidin Deer said:
Thank you for that. I have a mild concern in buying in bulk, since I won't have a dated receipt for every change (for warranty purposes).
Click to expand...

This raises an interesting question: has anyone of you ever been denied a warranty claim [or even had to fight about it] because you didn't have dated receipts "proving" that you did the maintenance yourself?

I know it's a concern, but I've never heard of it actually happening to anyone.
 
Changing oil in a CX-5 Turbo. Did the salesguy blow smoke up my tailpipe?

JRM1022 said:
You can get 5 quarts of Idemitsu Zepro for $34.95 which is the exact same oil as the Mazda brand Moly oil the dealerships sell, although if the dealer is doing your oil changes, more likely they are using cheaper Castrol Edge or Syntec.

https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)

You can get the OE SkyActiv oil filters for $8.99/ea and even cheaper if you buy in bulk.

https://www.ebay.com (commissions earned)
Click to expand...
OP has a 2.5T, and your info isn't applicable to his needs.

2.5T uses 5W-30 oil. The danger of this is there're so many conventional oil available with this viscosity. Even Mazda dealers have Mazda OEM 5W-30 oil which is not full synthetic. It you want Mazda dealer changing oil for you, make sure to use reputable full-synthetic 5W-30 oil printed on the invoice, not any Mazda OEM 5W-30 conventional oil or 0W-20 oil!

And the oil filter for 2.5T is different from the one for 2.5L too. The p/n for OEM oil filter is PY8W-14-302 which is still made in Japan by Tokyo Roki. Of course the pre-applied grease on rubber seal or big O-ring is still there, but unfortunately the price will be about 50%~100% more expensive than the one used by 2.5L.
 
yrwei52 said:
Yes, $90 per oil change is ridiculous for a special maintenance deal. My Mazda dealer charges $60 for oil change with Castrol oil; $10 more with Mazda moly oil.
Click to expand...

Labor cost is much higher in SF Bay Area.
I checked several dealers. The lowest charge w/ coupon is $89.
 
Avoidin Deer said:
Thank you for that. I have a mild concern in buying in bulk, since I won't have a dated receipt for every change (for warranty purposes).
Click to expand...

I don't think you need a dated receipt for warranty purposes. You just need a receipt that shows the purchase of the OEM filters and the oil you use. Then for every oil change, you simply refer to the receipt that lists the oil filter. For example, I bought 4 filters and crush washers from Mazda on 01/01/2018. For the following 4 oil changes, I'd just refer to that receipt.

I confirmed this with the service manager at my dealership.
 
yrwei52 said:
OP has a 2.5T, and your info isn't applicable to his needs.

2.5T uses 5W-30 oil. The danger of this is there're so many conventional oil available with this viscosity. Even Mazda dealers have Mazda OEM 5W-30 oil which is not full synthetic. It you want Mazda dealer changing oil for you, make sure to use reputable full-synthetic 5W-30 oil printed on the invoice, not any Mazda OEM 5W-30 conventional oil or 0W-20 oil!

And the oil filter for 2.5T is different from the one for 2.5L too. The p/n for OEM oil filter is PY8W-14-302 which is still made in Japan by Tokyo Roki. Of course the pre-applied grease on rubber seal or big O-ring is still there, but unfortunately the price will be about 50%~100% more expensive than the one used by 2.5L.
Click to expand...

"...make sure to use reputable full-synthetic 5W-30 oil printed on the invoice, not any Mazda OEM 5W-30 conventional oil..."

I'm confused by that statement. The owner's manual does not say anything about using a full synthetic.

Here is the text of the manual:

****
SKYACTIV-G 2.5T
Use SAE 5W-30 engine oil.

Mazda Genuine Oil is used in your Mazda vehicle. Mazda Genuine 5W-30 Oil is required to achieve optimum fuel economy.

For maintenance service, Mazda recommends Mazda Genuine Parts and Castrol (U.S.A. only).

Only use SAE 5W-30 oil *Certified For Gasoline Engines* by the American Petroleum Institute (API). Oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.
****

There are no other references to oil in the manual. Any idea where can I find an accurate Mazda reference?

I gotta say that this is one thing about Mazda I've been disappointed in so far. The documentation on this kind of stuff stinks (or I'm blind). I only found out that I could get another 23 HP out of it by using 93 octane when I called Mazda Customer Service to ask an unrelated question on the interior, and the rep pointed me to an online spec sheet and brochure. When I was reading those, I saw the notation regarding using 93 octane. There is no mention of this in the owners manual. All the manual says it to use nothing lower than 87 octane, and when towing to use 91 or higher. Had I not called with my obscure question (spurred by a warning on a Scotchgard can), I would never have known this.

/rant

ps: Thank you for the clarification!
 
Well...they designed all SkyActiv engines to run on 87. Turbo benefits from 93 (though that has been debated on here), but is not a requirement.

I do agree though, documentation could use work and better precision.

As for oil, just ensure that whatever you use is full synthetic! Yrwei just called that out because the NA engine calls for 0w20 which is only available as a full synthetic in that grade vs 5w30 which can be conventional, full synthetic, etc. For SkyActiv engines, you'll be wanting the full synthetic ;)
 
Last edited:
Changing oil in a CX-5 Turbo. Did the salesguy blow smoke up my tailpipe?

Avoidin Deer said:
"...make sure to use reputable full-synthetic 5W-30 oil printed on the invoice, not any Mazda OEM 5W-30 conventional oil..."

I'm confused by that statement. The owner's manual does not say anything about using a full synthetic.

Here is the text of the manual:

****
SKYACTIV-G 2.5T
Use SAE 5W-30 engine oil.

Mazda Genuine Oil is used in your Mazda vehicle. Mazda Genuine 5W-30 Oil is required to achieve optimum fuel economy.

For maintenance service, Mazda recommends Mazda Genuine Parts and Castrol (U.S.A. only).

Only use SAE 5W-30 oil *Certified For Gasoline Engines* by the American Petroleum Institute (API). Oil with this trademark symbol conforms to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.
****

There are no other references to oil in the manual. Any idea where can I find an accurate Mazda reference?

I gotta say that this is one thing about Mazda I've been disappointed in so far. The documentation on this kind of stuff stinks (or I'm blind). I only found out that I could get another 23 HP out of it by using 93 octane when I called Mazda Customer Service to ask an unrelated question on the interior, and the rep pointed me to an online spec sheet and brochure. When I was reading those, I saw the notation regarding using 93 octane. There is no mention of this in the owners manual. All the manual says it to use nothing lower than 87 octane, and when towing to use 91 or higher. Had I not called with my obscure question (spurred by a warning on a Scotchgard can), I would never have known this.

/rant

ps: Thank you for the clarification!
Click to expand...
2.5T is a turbo engine with very high temperature. Using full-synthetic oil for turbo engine is a common sense which can survive high heat better. 2.5L recommends 0W-20 oil and most of them are full-synthetic. But there're too many conventional 5W-30 oils hence chances are you may get conventional oil for oil change even at a Mazda dealer. Just be careful.

Mazda is sloppy on specs and documentation IMO. For my 2016 CX-5, oil capacity on specs says 4.8 quarts for 2.5L, but we actually need at least 5.3 quarts for oil change to make oil level reaching the Full mark on dipstick. Rear differential gear oil capacity is 0.48 quarts on specs but in reality we need at least 0.75 quarts to reach the fill-hole.

Your 2.5T has oil capacity of 5.1 quarts for oil change with oil filter replacement. Considering many 2.5T owners are finding oil level is ⅛ ~ quarts HIGHER than Full mark of the dipstick from factory, but 2.5L is ⅛ ~ quarts LOWER than Full mark of the dipstick from factory, I'm not sure if you need exact 5.1 quarts or more to make the oil level to Full / Maximum mark during oil change.

And your rear differential now is 0.37 quarts on capacity. Of course Mazda says all fluid capacities are "Approximate Quantities"!

Check your oil level now and see if it's over the Full / Maximum mark.

Unless you rev your 2.5T over 4,000 rpm very often, using 93 octane premium fuel definitely is a waste of money. Here is 2.5T's power curve with 93 and 87 AKI gasolines published by Mazda. "To prevent unnecessary spending on premium fuel, both power ratings are published".

shadonoz said:
Here's the torque curve:

TC.png


source: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/12/2019-mazda-cx-5-turbo-first-drive-your-italian-alternative/
Click to expand...
 
ColoradoDriver said:
Well...they designed all SkyActiv engines to run on 87. Turbo benefits from 93 (though that has been debated on here), but is not a requirement.

I do agree though, documentation could use work and better precision.

As for oil, just ensure that whatever you use is full synthetic! Yrwei just called that out because the NA engine calls for 0w20 which is only available as a full synthetic in that grade vs 5w30 which can be conventional, full synthetic, etc. For SkyActiv engines, you'll be wanting the full synthetic ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.

So is there anywhere in Mazda literature I can find that reference to synthetic and to other such info? Man, if the "gotta fill the filter with oil" statement didn't scare me into having the dealer do routine maintenance, this kind of genuinely undocumented stuff will. I now have no confidence I'm not doing something bad. What else don't I know?

Regarding the octane issue...

When I was picking up my car and taking the inspection drive, the sales guy said that I could get another 23HP by using 93 octane. I did not debate it, but many people think that using a higher octane provides benefits. I've never bought into that thinking, because once the ignition point is high enough to avoid ping, there is no benefit to increasing the fuel's ignition point further. It actually burns slower. I had read much of the online manual and Mazda stuff already and had not come across this piece of information, so thought the sales guy was just making idle chit chat.

But the Mazda CX-5 brochure and the Mazda CX-5 Spec Sheet on their website both state this for the turbo:

250 hp @ 5,000 rpm (with 93 octane fuel)
227 hp @ 5,000 rpm (with 87 octane fuel)

I would assume that the turbo engine detects the fuel ignition temperature (or maybe burn duration) and adjusts the timing accordingly (advances it?).

There is no such octane/hp statement for the naturally aspirated engine, just a much lower 187 hp @ 6,000 rpm, even though the compression ratio for the NA is significantly higher than for the turbo (13.0:1 vs 10.5:1).

As an aside, I was reading an article the other day on using higher-than-required octane, and the author put a car on a dynamometer. The measured HP actually went down when using higher octane fuel (he tested 87/89/91) as engine running temps increased. There were caveats to his conclusions, but it makes for interesting reading. https://nasaspeed.news/tech/engine/...-the-debate-over-which-fuel-makes-more-power/
 
yrwei52 said:
2.5T is a turbo engine with very high temperature. Using full-synthetic oil for turbo engine is a common sense which can survive high heat better. 2.5L recommends 0W-20 oil and most of them are full-synthetic. But there're too many conventional 5W-30 oils hence chances are you may get conventional oil for oil change even at a Mazda dealer. Just be careful.

Mazda is sloppy on specs and documentation IMO. For my 2016 CX-5, oil capacity on specs says 4.8 quarts for 2.5L, but we actually need at least 5.3 quarts for oil change to make oil level reaching the Full mark on dipstick. Rear differential gear oil capacity is 0.48 quarts on specs but in reality we need at least 0.75 quarts to reach the fill-hole.

Your 2.5T has oil capacity of 5.1 quarts for oil change with oil filter replacement. Considering many 2.5T owners are finding oil level is * ~ quarts HIGHER than Full mark of the dipstick from factory, but 2.5L is * ~ quarts LOWER than Full mark of the dipstick from factory, I'm not sure if you need exact 5.1 quarts or more to make the oil level to Full / Maximum mark during oil change.

And your rear differential now is 0.37 quarts on capacity. Of course Mazda says all fluid capacities are "Approximate Quantities"!

Check your oil level now and see if it's over the Full / Maximum mark.

Unless you rev your 2.5T over 4,000 rpm very often, using 93 octane premium fuel definitely is a waste of money. Here is 2.5T's power curve with 93 and 87 AKI gasolines published by Mazda. "To prevent unnecessary spending on premium fuel, both power ratings are published".
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that. I've read the article and am still trying to pick apart that graph. It's not very well labeled...what were we saying about Mazda documentation?

I guess the takeaway is that the only benefit is at high revs. Heck, I have not had the thing over 3,000 RPM yet since I'm still in break-in period, and cannot see perpetually putting my foot into it after that. (Just made a 100 mile round trip this evening, so I'm getting closer to Turbo Time).

During my test drive when out on a 70MPH highway, I noticed that when I put my foot down at 2,000 rpm, I could really feel the torque. I had no idea the power curve was that low, but it jives with what I thought I noticed in that brief drive.

Heck, you just saved me some money. I owe you a beer! Or maybe two!!! 93 octane is an extra $9 a tank.

Regarding that high oil mark, I hope it's not due to dilution, although I'm not too concerned for my rural driving conditions. Each trip is a minimum of 10 miles on 45/55+ MPH roads. I gotta drive 12 miles before I get to a 25MPH road. Stop and Go out here means I get in it an go, and I stop when I get there...unless I get stuck behind a combine.

I'll check the oil level tomorrow. I meant to do it anyway. Thanks for the data.
 
The graph shows 2 red lines - torque and horse power in paralell.
fully red lines are with 87. the grey extensions are how it changes with higher octane.

There are other benefits for 91/93 not just torque but for the average driver it probably would not matter.
 
ColoradoDriver said:
Well...they designed all SkyActiv engines to run on 87. Turbo benefits from 93 (though that has been debated on here), but is not a requirement.

I do agree though, documentation could use work and better precision.

As for oil, just ensure that whatever you use is full synthetic! Yrwei just called that out because the NA engine calls for 0w20 which is only available as a full synthetic in that grade vs 5w30 which can be conventional, full synthetic, etc. For SkyActiv engines, you'll be wanting the full synthetic ;)
Click to expand...

I did a bit of research on this, and you want a a full synthetic oil that has SN+, dexos 1 Gen 2, Ford WSS-M2C946-B1, ACEA A5/B5, Honda HTO-06 certs.

Mobil 1 EP 5-30 meets all of this and was my pick and what I plan to stick with for my CX5 Turbo.
 
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