Removing Intake Resonator on Mazda3

goldstar · Apr 19, 2004

tonkabui said:
now about the removal of the intake's resonator system all the way to the airbox, i think it's more important at this point to get a good filter. the stock's paper element is restrictive.

Actually, the OEM paper filter is more than adequate for the 2.0 liter normally aspirated engine. This is based on the accepted quality rating for a clean filter that at maximum flow the pressure drop will be no greater than 1.5" water. Assuming an 85% volumetric efficiency, the OEM filter will have a more than adequate flow rate up to 7000 rpm.

For a detailed explanation of why this is the case, you might want to check this out: www.clubprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2370

02 DX Millenium Red

Da 6 · Apr 19, 2004

goldstar said:
Actually, the OEM paper filter is more than adequate for the 2.0 liter normally aspirated engine. This is based on the accepted quality rating for a clean filter that at maximum flow the pressure drop will be no greater than 1.5" water. Assuming an 85% volumetric efficiency, the OEM filter will have a more than adequate flow rate up to 7000 rpm.

For a detailed explanation of why this is the case, you might want to check this out: www.clubprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2370

02 DX Millenium Red

I'm not shure how restrictive your protege filter as but my stock one before SRI for me (2.3) was an inch thick....the K&N drop in was way thinner and in conjunction with resonator delete shown some gains (MPG) for me personally when I drove line a normal person. no 2 cars will have the same gains for the same mod...some cars of the same model will dyno higher than others stock. only true way to know what you gained is to personaly dyno. Only downfall is not everyone has the time or access to do so.

Loose · Apr 19, 2004

Thanx Goldwimg2000, read your post on Fri. and took out the resonator on Sat. Took about 30 min. I found that there is no real change in the sound below 3000rpm but above that was a bellowing, thirsty 2.3L. My neighbors came by and were giving me s*** about modifying my "new" car but then I took them for a ride and they agreed, taking the resonator off was the right move. Now if we could just get K&N on the ball!!! Thanx again!!

goldwing2000 · Apr 19, 2004

goldstar said:
Actually, the OEM paper filter is more than adequate for the 2.0 liter normally aspirated engine. ...

Well, we're not talking about the 2.0L NA engine, now are we?

And besides... since when is "adequate" good enough? Better, faster, more!

All of your rules, statistics and figures may very well apply to the Mazda Protege but since this discussion is about the Mazda 3 (and the Mazda 6, to a lesser extent), I'd venture to say that a lot of your experience does not apply.

The 2.0L and 2.3L engines are completely different with different intake systems, different engine layouts and different power bands.

While your opinions are appreciated, please realize that they may or may not be relevant to the discussion.

Doctor3: Glad you agree! I'm very happy with removing my rez. I'll know next week if it helps fuel economy!

Da 6 · Apr 19, 2004

...ok guess I didn't read his profile(uhm).....n/a cars non vvt, vvt-i, vvt-e or the other 20 million honda versions of v-tec with mostly automatics from "my" knoledge and testing tend to move the powerband up a lil bit with cai and exhaust mods...so you were right to some extent...to counteract that a pcm or adjustable cam gear advcanced (with dyno) hepls you utilize(lower) the powerband into perspective...resonator delete adds a lil bit for non vvt cars as well...just not as much as it does for the vvt cars. As for the resonator for me...it felt as if i was putting 87 octane ito a car designed for 93 and up octane tll it was removed cause it was that restrictive (for me) I looked for maybe 3-5 minuts trying to figure out where the intake side of the box was...if it takes you more than 10 seconds to figurue out where the hole is......stay on the car topic people (wink). But as stated before the 2.0, 2.3, and 3.0 vvt(s-vt) engines respond to intake mods like a crack head responds to crack (not a hell of a drug...don't use). There are parts in the engine that restricts air flow til you hit vvt(s-vt) for low gas mileage and emittions when putting around and performancce once you are at 48%-50& throttle at 4500rpms

This is another form of valve tuning, and it works on the principles of Helmholtz Resonance. A static intake manifold can only be optimized for one specific RPM, so it is beneficial to develop a method to vary the intake length and/or volume. The resin intake manifold that Mazda used to create their 2.3l engine has a valve that changes the volume of the intake runner pipes, changing the resonance frequency of the intake inertial charge. The switchover occurs rather discretely at 4500rpm. Each state is tuned to return a wave of pressure to the intake valve at a different RPM. These two intake runners are switched at a certain RPM, and create a supercharger-like effect on the intake. This allows Mazda, combined with the variable intake timing, to get a relatively broad torque band, even if not as broad as some VTEC engines. Harnessing and optimizing engine resonances is a fundamental and essential part of engine design, as it allows efficient transfer of air. The 9000rpm RX-8 actually has a three chamber variable inlet design! Mazda calls their multi-chambered intake a VIS (Variable Intake System), though they are more generally called a VLIM (Variable Length Intake Manifold).

and as for the resonator and restriction to the engine

Breathing is everything to an engine- an engine can only convert as much air and fuel to power as it can get inside to burn.

and also this

The variable tumble control system (VTCS) was created to help emissions at low RPMs. The valve closes part of the intake path, increasing the velocity of the intake charge. The faster intake charge then has the inertia to swirl around the combustion chamber and more thoroughly mix with the fuel for combustion. Intake charge speed is less of an issue on valves that do not open very much, but recall that Mazda's VVT does not vary valve lift. At low RPMs, VTCS is needed to compensate for this. The valve does not completely disengage until 3750rpm. Mazda claims this technology is used to improve emissions, not torque.

this part hilighted in red is where vvt and v-tec are totally difrent(Not the exact same)

and for stock airbox

The variable intake duct (VAD) can be considered a second intake duct, prior to the air filter, that opens at higher RPMs. An otherwise restrictive, damped, and quiet intake is employed in the Mazda6 airbox. Beyond 4500rpm, the second air duct opens on the side of the airbox, allowing a shorter, louder, and larger path of air into the engine. With the VAD, the intake of the Mazda6 is never starved for an air source, yet it can stay quiet at lower RPMs. On the Mazda6, the air from the 2nd air duct is also a cooler air source- all the way to the driver's side of the engine bay.

the SRI filter sits where this vad street term "Flapper" sat. the 6 air box pulled from three places the resonator in the fender...a tube that was in front of box behind where the fog light is (foglights intigrated in headlight assembly) and the side facing the drivers fender (where the flapper is located and closed so air is ran thu the restricted resonator to keep it quiet....) once you reached 4500 it open and you kinda hear the engine...on non vvt cars removing this flapper causes low end torque loss.

to see more....full vvt article and pictures and prove i didn't pull this out of my ass.....
http://www.mazda6tech.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=33

goldwing2000 · Apr 19, 2004

The 3 is the same except for the VAD.

mazda3zoom · Apr 19, 2004

(uhm) ok guys...so i finally got around to takin off my resinator and i like the sound, didnt really notice any power gains or losses thought. i know i probably only got like 5 hp outta the whole thing so its ok. next question, is hydrolock, or whatever its called, when u get ice and snow into ur intake and ur car wont run? also, when i took off my resonator i could see the filter, is this going to be a problem? will excess dirt and rocks and water get up there and screw sumthin up?? thanks in advance. (uhm)

Da 6 · Apr 19, 2004

when you removed the resonator was the hole on the frame where il left the engine bat int the fender aroung the same height as the top of the wheel well? thats how hight water has to go to get in the air box...and as for debree...as long as you keep the filter on you should be fine...the air box flows from bottom to top so water has to do some magical stuff to get int the engine

(pullup) ...also it takes a nice amount to cause hydrolock..IIRC a cup...and also take into consideration anything under that has to come in cantact with the 190 degree engine parts....some people spray a lil water in the engne...(at operating temps) to clean the combustion chamber instead of using the actual cleaner that is combustable it's self hydro lock is basicly when water fills the cylinder enought that it can't compress it. water doesn't compress like air does and doesn't burn like fuel does. a friendly amount will be burned from heat...not because of flamability. so you can sleep better now

mazda3zoom · Apr 19, 2004

Da 6 said:
when you removed the resonator was the hole on the frame where il left the engine bat int the fender aroung the same height as the top of the wheel well? thats how hight water has to go to get in the air box...and as for debree...as long as you keep the filter on you should be fine...the air box flows from bottom to top so water has to do some magical stuff to get int the engine

(pullup) ...also it takes a nice amount to cause hydrolock..IIRC a cup...and also take into consideration anything under that has to come in cantact with the 190 degree engine parts....some people spray a lil water in the engne...(at operating temps) to clean the combustion chamber instead of using the actual cleaner that is combustable it's self hydro lock is basicly when water fills the cylinder enought that it can't compress it. water doesn't compress like air does and doesn't burn like fuel does. a friendly amount will be burned from heat...not because of flamability. so you can sleep better now

thanks da6-helps alot

goldstar · Apr 19, 2004

goldwing2000 said:
Well, we're not talking about the 2.0L NA engine, now are we?

And besides... since when is "adequate" good enough? Better, faster, more!

All of your rules, statistics and figures may very well apply to the Mazda Protege but since this discussion is about the Mazda 3 (and the Mazda 6, to a lesser extent), I'd venture to say that a lot of your experience does not apply.

The 2.0L and 2.3L engines are completely different with different intake systems, different engine layouts and different power bands.

While your opinions are appreciated, please realize that they may or may not be relevant to the discussion.

My comments about the adequacy of the OEM air filter were directed to tonkabui as, like myself, he has an '02 Protege. I don't presume to know the characteristics of the 3 air filter (either 2.0 or 2.3 liter) because I don't know the parameters involved and consequently have not done the math. In any case, that was a side issue and has nothing to do with the function of the resonator.

I'm glad my opinions are appreciated and I too appreciate the opportunity to have discussions of this nature with someone as obviously knowledgeable as yourself.

02 DX Millenium Red

Da 6 · Apr 19, 2004

ok also wanted to point out before I take off....don't take the roadway that is flooded wspecially with a cai...most cai systems are designed to be used on the vehile at it's stock height...so lowering the vehicle May..not deffinently but may increase the chances of ingesting water...the neon has no fender liner on the bottom and slow and ice packed around the filter....nothing happend other than salt clogginf up the cai filter...mazda 6 has a full splash shield so that doesn't present a prblem...not shure if you guys also have a full shield too. what I mean is after it comes dow the front of the wheel well it goes parallell and extend to the front bumper....most cars don't have that.

goldwing2000 · Apr 19, 2004

mazda3zoom said:
thanks da6-helps alot

Also, the great bloody splash shield we have under the engine should keep anything from getting in.

goldwing2000 · Apr 19, 2004

goldstar said:
My comments about the adequacy of the OEM air filter were directed to tonkabui as, like myself, he has an '02 Protege. I don't presume to know the characteristics of the 3 air filter (either 2.0 or 2.3 liter) because I don't know the parameters involved and consequently have not done the math. In any case, that was a side issue and has nothing to do with the function of the resonator.

I'm glad my opinions are appreciated and I too appreciate the opportunity to have discussions of this nature with someone as obviously knowledgeable as yourself.

02 DX Millenium Red

Very good, sir! I did not realize that you were directing at tonkabui and likewise that he had a Pro. (thumb)

mazda3zoom · Apr 20, 2004

ok.....so i took my resinator off and now it seems like i dont have as much off the line power. ive been takin my car out behind a local high school and seein how it runs, i also needed to work on my take offs, and it just doesnt seem like its as fast off the line. would takin that off cause that or is it just my imagination? (uhm)

goldwing2000 · Apr 20, 2004

mazda3zoom said:
ok.....so i took my resinator off and now it seems like i dont have as much off the line power. ive been takin my car out behind a local high school and seein how it runs, i also needed to work on my take offs, and it just doesnt seem like its as fast off the line. would takin that off cause that or is it just my imagination? (uhm)

Beats me, dude. Mine feels the same off the line but has more power higher up. Maybe the extra pull at the top is making the bottom feel weaker?

mazda3zoom · Apr 20, 2004

goldwing2000 said:
Beats me, dude. Mine feels the same off the line but has more power higher up. Maybe the extra pull at the top is making the bottom feel weaker?

hmmm.....very interesting. (uhm)

Silver Bull3t · Apr 24, 2004

My goodness....

Just removed my resonator per goldwing's instructions....
I am very much enjoying it.....

..Feels and sounds soooo much better, (not crazy loud), but now she has no trouble breathing (just look at the resonator.....it's gotta be restrictive!!).

Thanks Goldwing!!!!

I took a sh1t-load of pics to help the other newbies like myself (thought)

I'll be posting them soon (today)..... (dance)

Silver Bull3t · Apr 24, 2004

Match pics. to step #.....

goldwing2000 said:
Why would you do such a thing, you ask?

Well... cuz it not only sounds better, it improves airflow, thereby increasing performance and fuel economy! Well... theoretically, anyway.

Tools you'll need:
Jack and 1 jack stand
21mm lug nut wrench or similar tool
#2 Phillips Screwdriver
10mm deep socket or short socket with extension and ratchet (the smaller the better; 1/4" drive tools will work best.
10mm open-end wrench

Procedure:
1. Loosen lug nuts on left front wheel
2. Jack up left front corner of car
3. Remove lug nuts and wheel
4. Remove 3 phillips-head screws from left front underbody splash shield
5. Remove three phillips-head push pins from front of inner fender (two on the wheel opening lip, one inside the wheel well)
6. Using socket and ratchet, remove 6 10mm-head bolts from splash shields. These bolts only: One in wheel well next to the push pin from step 5, three across the front of the car on main splash shield, two on left side where main splash shield attaches to transmission splash shield. Do not remove the push-pins on the main splash shield.
7. Slide main splash shield free from lock-pin where it attaches to the transmission splash shield.
8. Pull front portion of inner fender back away from the front of the car.
9. See that big honkin hunk o' plastic inside there? That's the resonator. There are three bolts holding it in place.
-10mm Bolt #1: This one is easy. It should be staring you right in the face. Take it out.
-10mm Bolt #2: This one's a little more difficult. Lie on your back and look up between the resonator and the frame rail, next to the horn. You should see the bottom of the tab that bolt #2 is going through. Use a small ratchet and take it out.
-10mm Bolt #3: This one will take the longest. The resonator was put in before the headlight, so bolt #3 was designed to be accessed from the front. We don't want to take the headlight out, so we will be using the back door method. Take the 10mm open-end wrench, lie on your back and look up inside the fender/bumper area. You'll see the edge of bolt #3 tucked up about a foot from the bottom of the bumper. The resonator will be pretty loose, so just wiggle it and see where it pivots. Take bolt #3 out with the wrench and don't let the resonator fall on your face. You'll have to turn it this way and that but it will eventually come out through the wheel well.

10. Reverse steps 8-1, tighten lug nuts to 85-90 ft-lbs in a star pattern and you're off and running! (yippy)

11. Call K&N and bug them about getting a new filter.

Silver Bull3t · Apr 24, 2004

Match pics tp step #.....cont.

goldwing2000 said:
Why would you do such a thing, you ask?

Well... cuz it not only sounds better, it improves airflow, thereby increasing performance and fuel economy! Well... theoretically, anyway.

Tools you'll need:
Jack and 1 jack stand
21mm lug nut wrench or similar tool
#2 Phillips Screwdriver
10mm deep socket or short socket with extension and ratchet (the smaller the better; 1/4" drive tools will work best.
10mm open-end wrench

Procedure:
1. Loosen lug nuts on left front wheel
2. Jack up left front corner of car
3. Remove lug nuts and wheel
4. Remove 3 phillips-head screws from left front underbody splash shield
5. Remove three phillips-head push pins from front of inner fender (two on the wheel opening lip, one inside the wheel well)
6. Using socket and ratchet, remove 6 10mm-head bolts from splash shields. These bolts only: One in wheel well next to the push pin from step 5, three across the front of the car on main splash shield, two on left side where main splash shield attaches to transmission splash shield. Do not remove the push-pins on the main splash shield.
7. Slide main splash shield free from lock-pin where it attaches to the transmission splash shield.
8. Pull front portion of inner fender back away from the front of the car.
9. See that big honkin hunk o' plastic inside there? That's the resonator. There are three bolts holding it in place.
-10mm Bolt #1: This one is easy. It should be staring you right in the face. Take it out.
-10mm Bolt #2: This one's a little more difficult. Lie on your back and look up between the resonator and the frame rail, next to the horn. You should see the bottom of the tab that bolt #2 is going through. Use a small ratchet and take it out.
-10mm Bolt #3: This one will take the longest. The resonator was put in before the headlight, so bolt #3 was designed to be accessed from the front. We don't want to take the headlight out, so we will be using the back door method. Take the 10mm open-end wrench, lie on your back and look up inside the fender/bumper area. You'll see the edge of bolt #3 tucked up about a foot from the bottom of the bumper. The resonator will be pretty loose, so just wiggle it and see where it pivots. Take bolt #3 out with the wrench and don't let the resonator fall on your face. You'll have to turn it this way and that but it will eventually come out through the wheel well.

10. Reverse steps 8-1, tighten lug nuts to 85-90 ft-lbs in a star pattern and you're off and running! (yippy)

11. Call K&N and bug them about getting a new filter.

Silver Bull3t · Apr 24, 2004

Match pics tp step #.....cont...cont.

goldwing2000 said:
Why would you do such a thing, you ask?

Well... cuz it not only sounds better, it improves airflow, thereby increasing performance and fuel economy! Well... theoretically, anyway.

Tools you'll need:
Jack and 1 jack stand
21mm lug nut wrench or similar tool
#2 Phillips Screwdriver
10mm deep socket or short socket with extension and ratchet (the smaller the better; 1/4" drive tools will work best.
10mm open-end wrench

Procedure:
1. Loosen lug nuts on left front wheel
2. Jack up left front corner of car
3. Remove lug nuts and wheel
4. Remove 3 phillips-head screws from left front underbody splash shield
5. Remove three phillips-head push pins from front of inner fender (two on the wheel opening lip, one inside the wheel well)
6. Using socket and ratchet, remove 6 10mm-head bolts from splash shields. These bolts only: One in wheel well next to the push pin from step 5, three across the front of the car on main splash shield, two on left side where main splash shield attaches to transmission splash shield. Do not remove the push-pins on the main splash shield.
7. Slide main splash shield free from lock-pin where it attaches to the transmission splash shield.
8. Pull front portion of inner fender back away from the front of the car.
9. See that big honkin hunk o' plastic inside there? That's the resonator. There are three bolts holding it in place.
-10mm Bolt #1: This one is easy. It should be staring you right in the face. Take it out.
-10mm Bolt #2: This one's a little more difficult. Lie on your back and look up between the resonator and the frame rail, next to the horn. You should see the bottom of the tab that bolt #2 is going through. Use a small ratchet and take it out.
-10mm Bolt #3: This one will take the longest. The resonator was put in before the headlight, so bolt #3 was designed to be accessed from the front. We don't want to take the headlight out, so we will be using the back door method. Take the 10mm open-end wrench, lie on your back and look up inside the fender/bumper area. You'll see the edge of bolt #3 tucked up about a foot from the bottom of the bumper. The resonator will be pretty loose, so just wiggle it and see where it pivots. Take bolt #3 out with the wrench and don't let the resonator fall on your face. You'll have to turn it this way and that but it will eventually come out through the wheel well.

10. Reverse steps 8-1, tighten lug nuts to 85-90 ft-lbs in a star pattern and you're off and running! (yippy)

11. Call K&N and bug them about getting a new filter.

Last pic is looking up into the filterbox where the resonator was attached... (wrc)

Removing Intake Resonator on Mazda3

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