article about HID and ho Pro5 has the farthest low beams!!

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2003.5 MP5 Laser Blue Automatic (SOLD)
article about HID and how Protege 5 has the farthest low beams!!

Read the article below taken straight from Consumer Reports website. It says that Mazda Protege 5 has the farthest low beams!!! Yay!!!! (headbang)

Blinded by the light

Glare from those chic blue HID headlights has many drivers seeing red. Heres why some lights can be a problem and what you can do.


Photos by Tracey Kroll
Odds are, you love high-intensity discharge (HID) headlights if theyre on your vehicle. Lighting tests weve begun as part of our vehicle evaluations show that low-beam HID lights flood the roadway with a wider, brighter, more uniform light than regular halogens. But drivers on the receiving end of that light describe it in less-than-glowing terms.

When the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) announced that it was looking into complaints about glare from HID lights, high-mounted sport-utility-vehicle lights, and fog lights, most of the roughly 4,000 responses that poured in complained about HIDs.

The numbers are especially significant considering that HID-equipped vehicles account for only about 1 percent of U.S. cars and trucks sold.

Automakers note that HID headlights meet current federal standards and attribute the complaints about them to a tendency for drivers to stare at the lights distinctive blue-white hue.

But our research and headlight tests of 41 vehicles--some with halogens, some with HIDs--show that HIDs do produce more glare, which is the temporary annoyance or blindness caused by bright light in your field of view. Dirty glasses or contact lenses can increase glare. Experts also say its effects become more noticeable after age 50. While HIDs blue hue is part of the glare problem, much of it lies in how their brighter light is distributed.

NHTSA is expected to begin proposing new standards for headlights later this year. Areas under study include the effect of blue light on the eye and the degree to which SUVs high-mounted lights cause glare. High-mounted HID lights can be especially glaring; we estimate that they zap vehicles ahead with up to 30 times more light than car-height halogens. Our HID-equipped 2003 BMW X5 and 2003 Range Rover SUVs prompted many oncoming drivers to "flash" us with high beams, even though we were using low beams that were properly aimed.

Glare isnt the only headlight concern. Accident data and our test results suggest that even bright lights may not be bright enough where it counts. While were still gathering the data needed to include headlight Ratings in our vehicle scores, we found some strong performers so far. We also found the HID lights on the Audi TT and halogen lights on the Chrysler Sebring and Pontiac Grand Prix unimpressive.

Varying headlight performance and glare are reasons to perform a nighttime test drive before buying a new vehicle. Heres what HID headlights do well, and why some are so annoying. We also detail what you can do to protect yourself from glare, and how you can encourage NHTSA to set standards for safer lights.

HID headlights vs. halogen headlights

STARK CONTRAST An HID beams sharp edge between light and dark causes the beam to flash other drivers when the car travels over uneven surfaces. FADE-OUT Halogens tend to produce a more gradual shift from light to dark.
(Both photographs show headlights projected against a wall.)



More light, but mostly to the side

Unlike standard halogen bulbs, which produce light by heating a tungsten filament, HID bulbs send a high-voltage arc across two electrodes. This excites a gas, usually xenon, inside the bulb and vaporizes metallic salts, which sustain the arc.
The result is two to three times the light of halogens while using one-third less energy. Carmakers add that HID bulbs should last much longer than halogen bulbs. But at about $600 per vehicle, those benefits come at a cost.

What the law allows. Federal standards allow high beams to throw lots of light far ahead, but limit low-beam levels for oncoming drivers to minimize glare. Carmakers typically channel an HIDs extra light toward the sides to stay within those standards.

Side light has its benefits. "Youre more likely to see objects on the right side of the road," says Mark Rea, director of the Lighting Research Center at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y.

But neither HID nor halogen lights may provide enough light down the road on their low beams, says Michael Flannagan, senior associate research scientist at the University of Michigans Transportation Research Institute. "Each year, some 2,300 pedestrians are killed at night in the road, not on the shoulder," says Flannagan, who analyzed 11 years of nationwide crash data to calculate the effect of darkness on pedestrian fatalities. His 2001 study found that pedestrians are killed at four times the rate in darkness as in daylight.

"The farther drivers can see straight ahead on low beams, the better," says Flannagan. We agree. Unfortunately, while many HID lights we tested were among the better performers, even the best didnt outdistance the best halogens.

What we found. We compared 31 cars and trucks with halogen lights and 10 with HIDs, measuring their ability to light the road ahead and along the sides as well as checking them for glare (see Headlight testing).

Six out of 10 vehicles with HIDs and 9 out of 31 with halogens reached the 400-foot marker on our test course with low beams, compared with an average of 335 feet for all models tested.

The farthest so far: the inexpensive, halogen-equipped Mazda Proteg5. Its low beams illuminated our 600-foot marker without creating a glare problem.

Both types of lights produced our worst performers. The HID-equipped Audi TTs low beams lit only to our 200-foot marker, while the halogen-equipped Chrysler Sebring and Pontiac Grand Prix provided weak, nonuniform light.

Little room for error. While even 200 feet of lighting may sound like enough, it may not be. Based on typical reaction times and braking distances, drivers traveling at 50 mph need 237 feet to see a pedestrian, hit the brake pedal, and stop in time. Wet or icy roads and higher speeds increase braking distance, while fog, glare, and fatigue reduce visibility.


GLARE: WHY HIDs CAN CAUSE MORE
Ironically, the same attributes that tend to endear HID headlights to many drivers who have them can account for the lights added glare. The major ones:

That blue hue. Experts say that the blue-white tint of high-density discharge headlights can be uncomfortable for oncoming drivers. "The short wavelengths that make the light blue seem to be more glaring," says Rea. He adds that glare increases with age as eyes grow more sensitive to scattered light.

When side light shifts. An HIDs added side light can be a problem on winding roads as right curves aim that light at oncoming drivers.

More wet-weather glare. Added light directly in front of an HID-equipped vehicle can be reassuring from the drivers seat. But lots of foreground light can also reflect off wet roads and up toward oncoming traffic, creating more glare for drivers coming toward you.

A sharper cutoff. HID headlights tend to define the top of their beams with a sharp horizontal line, compared with most halogens smoother fade to darkness. Bumpy roads can cause that sharp beam to flash at oncoming drivers and in the mirrors of cars ahead as it bounces in and out of view.

Glare can be a problem even on smooth, multilaned highways when HID-equipped SUVs are in the left lane. Our test staff found that the higher-mounted lights on those vehicles tended to accentuate HID lights sharp cutoff and wide right-side lighting, causing the light to shine directly into the mirrors of vehicles in the right lane.


A BRIGHTER COURSE
In a new nationwide NHTSA survey of 4,321 drivers, 30 percent of respondents found glare from headlights disturbing. "Thats a pretty good chunk," says Michael Perel, the NHTSA research engineer who ran the survey.

In January 2003, Perel told a conference of researchers that new rules may reduce the maximum height for all headlights. NHTSA may also require self-leveling, which adjusts HID beams based on load so they dont point upward when the vehicle is full. Self-leveling is required in Europe, where HID headlights are currently on 25 percent of all vehicles.

What NHTSA can do. According to Flannagan of the University of Michigan, HID headlights have the potential to provide better forward visibility without more glare if their reflectors and lenses redirected some of the extra light. While the industry lighting engineers we spoke with acknowledged some challenges, they tended to agree.

We think NHTSA should take the following steps:

Require better lighting straight ahead for all headlight low beams.

Adopt the European standard requiring HID headlights to be self-leveling.

Require a smoother, more gradual low-beam cutoff for HID and other headlights to address a key source of glare.

Consider having carmakers chemically alter HID bulbs. Or use color-correcting lenses, which move an HID lights white spectrum more toward yellow, like that of conventional halogen headlights.

Better control foreground light levels for HID headlights.

Reduce the maximum height of low-beam headlights on SUVs and pickups to make it more in line with the lights on lower passenger cars.
 
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interesting...i was gonna put on some hids on my mp5 but now that i think about...its not worth it if my stock lights are the bomb compared to car with hids
 
Ever since i got my car last year i noticed that the lighting was a bit too high but after reading this im not gonna adjust it. It must be adjusted right after i read that article.
 
I have the standard bulbs and when my car is clean I get flashed by other drivers because the lights are so bright. Why waste the money to go HID???
 
h7's are the lowbeams right?

what about the high beams...

i'm gonna replace w/ phillips visionplus......:)
 
My friends would always say to me "Damn, Major! Your lights are bright as hell dude. What kinda bulbs you got in?"

"Um, actually, I think they're stock..."
 
I painted my headlight housings before I installed my HID kit to reduce glare and it worked quite well. Here is a head on shot of my HID Kit on an overcast day...can't tell me it is blinding other drivers :p

f9036f09.jpg
 
You'll never, ever be able to reproduce what HID looks like in real life vs. a photo..

HID is a waste; good technology gone bad- about all it's good for flood and security lamps.
 
You are right, HID can not be truely captured in a photo...good technology gone bad? How has it gone bad? It produces a brighter light with almost half the wattage...I agree it is too pricey but it makes my P5 look so much better then yours!
 
I got Osram Silverstar for the low beams, because I found that although the P5 lights look pretty bright from the OUTSIDE, it wasn't intense enough when viewed from INSIDE. With the Osram SS, it's much better.
 
andyfatsax said:
How has it gone bad?
I'll tell you how --- by being a pain in the @$$ for other drivers. I got completely blinded by an Audi with HIDs last week and couldn't see to drive (had to pull over for a minute). And I didn't stare at them, either.

And that part about the effects being more prominent on older people and those with glasses is true. My father, who is 65 and wears bifocals, is absolutely blinded by HIDs every time he sees them.

I love the way they lighten up the road better when you're driving, but if they can't come up with a design standard for all manufacturers that can gain the benefits from better lighting and still not blind other drivers, they should outlaw HIDs altogether. However, I hope that's not the answer -- the technology needs to be improved before anyone can say it's actually useable.
 
I have both a 2003 Nissan Maxima GLE with HID's and a 2003.5 Mazda Protege5. I get flashed a lot more when driving the MP5 than I do in the Max. Max gets flashed rarely. My daily commute is over 100 miles a day, most of it on a two lane, work late a lot, drive home in the dark a lot.

I've heard of couple of older people, >60, say that "those blue lights" blind them, tho.

But, like that article says, what annoys me is the HIDs on SUVs that are right behind me.
 
VFR pilot said:
(lol)......lights don't make a car spectacular.......

No, your wrong...Lights make it better, and that is my goal, to make it better.(freak)

I like the look of HID, it will never be outlawd, that is like trying to control truckers from engine braking in urban areas...they are gonna do it anyway, or telling a harley owner he can't drive his bike because it is too loud, the old people don't like loud...it just ain't gonna happen.

Either way HID's are far more efficient and should be the standard, not the alternative.(headshake
 
Good Post

Thanks for posting that article. Very interesting. I had given consideration to going with some HID's when I bought the P5 but the stocks were just so good I decided to stick with them. This re-affirms my decision. Kudos to the Mazda engineers who designed the P5 lights.
 
If they design HID Headlights with gyros to keep them level no matter how many potholes, speedbumps or uneven road you drive over then that will end being blinded. I mean it really doesnt sound like something hard to make. All it is is some balancing. if they can make SUVs 50/50 weight distribution front to rear then they can make constantly leveling HID lights.
 
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