MP3, MSP and P5 Engine Management solution

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Chris, I looked into the MPI tuner and I spoke with Perf about it and I spoke with another tuning shop (I think I spoke with MPNick about it also). The additional injector control (which appears to be a major piece of the MPI is nice....to a certain extent. You can't just keep throwing fuel at a problem to fix it. There comes a point where tuning HAS to take over.

I would love to see an actual MSP owner who has the MPI tuner post their dyno chart and what exactly the MPI did for them. I have yet to see this so I'm skeptical. The whole extra injector idea is nice....for a band-aid. The AEM has the capability to everything the MPI will do and a lot more. Also, if the potential buyers aren't happy with the power received from Perf's tuning any other shop that is compitent about AEM can tune it. 80% of the work is getting it into the car and running. Tuning is the easy part!

I agree with you about everyone shutting up. It seems the least informed of us are always the loudest.
 
Turbo Matty:

This is basic, with either the piggy or the AEM, if you are running more boost you will need fuel management, this can be done by adding extra injectors or replacing stock injectors with bigger ones. Thats it.

I would upgrade the stock Fuel Rail too, it gets very hot and heats up the fuel being injected. Detonation may happen if you have your timing retarded to the minimum before detonation.

Fuel pumps may also heat up the fuel. These small details is what most people dont give the importance it needs.
 
igdrasil said:
Turbo Matty:

This is basic, with either the piggy or the AEM, if you are running more boost you will need fuel management, this can be done by adding extra injectors or replacing stock injectors with bigger ones. Thats it.

I would upgrade the stock Fuel Rail too, it gets very hot and heats up the fuel being injected. Detonation may happen if you have your timing retarded to the minimum before detonation.

Fuel pumps may also heat up the fuel. These small details is what most people dont give the importance it needs.
However, I think it has been proven, larger injectors can handle more power than extra injectors with the stockers in place.

Controlling the larger injectors is where the problem comes in too.
 
StuttersC said:
However, I think it has been proven, larger injectors can handle more power than extra injectors with the stockers in place.

Controlling the larger injectors is where the problem comes in too.
Where was this proven? I have never seen any dyno test that run big injectors first. Then removed them and dynoed with extra injectors and the stock injectors installed reinstalled.

I have big injectors cause a loss of lowend spoolup on turbo cars. I have also removed big injectors and installed the extra injector setup on cars. THe feed back from customers has always been great.


Thanks again

Later............Nick
 
Guys...one thing I quite don't understand in the comparison between the AEM and the MPI...

If the MPI and the AEM both had the same capabilities, there would be a HUGE problem somewhere. Either MPNick would but HUGELY inflating his prices and WM&TPW(Wagner Motorsports and Turbo Performance Works) are chargin normal price, or MPNick is charging normal price and WM&TPW are hugely inflating their prices....You guys are comparing a 350z to a viper by comparing the MPI to the AEM...the AEM is almost 3 TIMES the cost of a MPI, so it damned well better have a shitload of more control and functionality than the MPI, or you are all getting ripped off something ridiculous.

In getting parts for performance car there are stages in every category. Let's take clutches for example..You have the stock replacement, street, street/strip, and strip versions of clutches. Why should it be any different in Engine Management? Has is ever occured to you that the MPI(Piggy) may be a step above a FMU(Mechanical), the AEM(PnP) may be a step above the MPI(Piggy), and the LINK/Fast/Microtech(Full Standalone) may be a step above the AEM(PnP)? It should have, since the price of each CERTAINLY reflects that.

Personally, I feel the MPI is a GREAT product for the price because it is relatively cheap and performs VERY VERY well, controlling fuel and spark where most units in its price range only control fuel. But this is for another hread alltogether.

Right now, We are waiting for proof that the AEM deserves to be places in this 3rd tier rank..I plan on running high levels of power one day, and if the MPI fails to meet my needs at that higher power range(which I doubt it will, but this is hypothetical) then I will probably go to this unit if it comes out and is successful, just because it seems powerful and is not a full standalone. Also, I would have to factor in my friendship with Perf.

Stop arguing that an apple is an orange and that an orange should be an apple.
 
Turbo Matty P said:
Chris, I looked into the MPI tuner and I spoke with Perf about it and I spoke with another tuning shop (I think I spoke with MPNick about it also). The additional injector control (which appears to be a major piece of the MPI is nice....to a certain extent. You can't just keep throwing fuel at a problem to fix it. There comes a point where tuning HAS to take over.

I would love to see an actual MSP owner who has the MPI tuner post their dyno chart and what exactly the MPI did for them. I have yet to see this so I'm skeptical. The whole extra injector idea is nice....for a band-aid. The AEM has the capability to everything the MPI will do and a lot more. Also, if the potential buyers aren't happy with the power received from Perf's tuning any other shop that is compitent about AEM can tune it. 80% of the work is getting it into the car and running. Tuning is the easy part!

I agree with you about everyone shutting up. It seems the least informed of us are always the loudest.
Ok, so let me get this straight... two guys - are going to succeed where AEM couldn't? Is that what you are saying?

"Tuning is the easy part!" - ?
(lol)
To quote someone - "the blind shall soon see", lol - I never realized how stupid that sounded until just now.(mswerd)

I wouldn't call Tuning easy, not any jackass can just tune a car. Trust me on this - I'm a jackass, and I am not about to try to tune my car.
 
Micah said:
I'm a jackass, and I am not about to try to tune my car.
exacltly how i see it too =)

i can try ... cant garantee it'll still work after im done messing with the settings. It's kind of like trying to install apache on a console only linux server when you're new at it (for those of you who've been there before)
 
Metal MP5 said:
exacltly how i see it too =)

i can try ... cant garantee it'll still work after im done messing with the settings. It's kind of like trying to install apache on a console only linux server when you're new at it (for those of you who've been there before)
\

Worst, a bad linux installation will not burn the processor or anything. :eek:

People, the ones that are really going to buy this unit (AEM) you will have to stick to the settings your tunner will give. I wouldnt recommend to touch anything on the setting. I would rather have a fuel trim just to adjust fuel pressure accordingly.
Having a standalone in your car is not a toy, it need a lot of knowledge to get into it.
Someday soon I will go standalone, but I will keep the tunning to the tunner. PERIOD.
 
MPNick said:
Where was this proven? I have never seen any dyno test that run big injectors first. Then removed them and dynoed with extra injectors and the stock injectors installed reinstalled.

I have big injectors cause a loss of lowend spoolup on turbo cars. I have also removed big injectors and installed the extra injector setup on cars. THe feed back from customers has always been great.


Thanks again

Later............Nick

The Miatas running larger injectors support more horsepower than they can with extra injectors. And Flyin' Miata has done the exact opposite of you. Taken out the old way of running extra injectors to install larger injectors to support more power. We covered this in some other thread regarding tuning...
 
Well having larger injectors makes sense. But unfortunately i must say that the reason MPnick favors extra injectors is cause the mpi tuner has/had problems with that... supposdly Acidbbg's mpi works on stock though... but the aem would work with larger injectors perfectly... I think there are rx7 440 or 460cc right?
 
Metal MP5 said:
exacltly how i see it too =)

i can try ... cant garantee it'll still work after im done messing with the settings. It's kind of like trying to install apache on a console only linux server when you're new at it (for those of you who've been there before)
YES!!! - great reference. I'm currently in the process of trying to install FreeBSD on an old Toshiba 386 laptop so it can be used as a portable terminal for configuring Cisco hardware locally.

And of course I'll be loading that the fun way - no ethernet, no cd rom, no floppy.
 
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Ok, I'm gonna close this thread for a while until we can determing what to do with it. This is getting out of hand. I've been out of town with not much internet access, so I have not been around. Perf and Wagner, it may be a good idea to start a new thread when you have your results. Hopefully this one will re-open later today.
 
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