MPI Tuner Anyone?

MPNick said:
Yes we can get rid of the MAF with an added modual that would work along with the MPI Tuner. It would be a big mistake, but we can do it. Yes you can run a BOV with our MPI Tuner and MAF. You would not stall the car after you tune the system right.

Yes we have already use the MPI Tuner with 560cc injectors. I would not use then again, the idle was not as clean as I would have liked. We will be test 450cc very soon, we had hoped to test them last week but it did not happen.


Please let me know if you have any other questions at all.


Thanks again


Later.......Nick


y would it be a big mistake to get rid of the maf, dosent it increase air flow to the turbo and help turbo spool up ? most people what to get rid of the maf just cuz of its limitations or is it just bad with the tuner ?
 
hukster00 said:
y would it be a big mistake to get rid of the maf, dosent it increase air flow to the turbo and help turbo spool up ? most people what to get rid of the maf just cuz of its limitations or is it just bad with the tuner ?

If you gain air flow or get better responce when you remove the MAF, you had a small MAF. This is why we have larger MAF meters made for us just to work for the Mazda. Removing the MAF is a bad idea. It does not matter if you have the MPI Tuner or any other system.

Nothing tunes and stay's in tune better then a goof working MAF system. Yes we can run the Mazda with our MAP sensor.

Please let me know if you have any questions at all.


Thanks again


Later.........Nick
 
charles said:
OK, I see the problems with running less than one extra injector per cylinder. It would be hard to ensure that the extra fuel is delivered evenly to every cylinder, right? Then you could get some running lean and running rich? But if you run staged injectors for every cylinder, are there problems like this? I thought a lot of RX-7s had a set of secondary injectors that come on only when needed. (Then again they don't have cylinders).

I think we are lossing sight of what the goal is here. We are talking about a street car that would be running around 15-18psi max. Sofar we have done this and we have had no problems. Not one bad plug, no fuel wash in the crankcase, no black smoke at WOT, no stumbles, no over heated engines and I think one of the fastes stock engine MSP around. So what are the problems that I need to be looking for other then the ones we do not have.

If you are asking me what would be the best way to do it if money was no problem. Then I would say staged injectors at the port. If you are asking how much better this system would work for a 15 psi car that is driven on the street everyday, I would say do not waste your money. Most people will never gain anything from instaling extra in the ports. You would need to be looking for every last hp in a very high boost car that would be used for racing as much as street driven.

Anyway you look at it, extra injectors in the port or before the throttle body would work better then running bigger injectors or the FMU.


Thanks again


Later...........Nick
 
perfworks said:
There is a big difference between port injection and TB injection.
There is no comparisson to the amount of efficient and CLEAN power that can be made from accuratetly getting the fuel to each individual cylinder.
BTW when companys years ago stayed away form extra injectors in OEM applications , they noticed that EGT's were much higher in certain Paired cylinders inline. It is fact that every cylinder will NOT get the same amount of fuel as the next. BUT does that mean that they are running lean? Maybe for certain turbocharged application guidelines, yes.

It is also a fact the no one cylinder will get the same amount of air in as the next cylinder in an OEM intake manifold. I have yet to see any OEM car maker install four injectors that have four flow rates. What I mean is we know the in any engine the air flow is not the same from port to port. So how come the OEM does not install injectors with match flow rates to work with one port that flows more then the other. Also you can take out brand new injectors, send them out to have the tested. More then likely you will find that you have four different flowing injectors.

We are not talking about a 9,000 rpm race engine here. If you are off a few % with the throttle body injectors it will not matter. It may in fact help even out the fuel from port to port.

Please let me know if you have any question at all.

Thanks again

Later............Nick

Nick looks like a nice build for your EVO, when do you think you will have it together?
 
hukster00 said:
what about using speed density sensor like the vpc ?

VPC, is that the HKS unit ? I built an engine for a guy who had one in a Eclipse. He had a big turbo, big intercooler, big injectors and a small fan. The turbo would hit the stock fan, so he had to get a small fan to fit the back of the radiator. The car always had a CEL on. It also did not run good when it was warm, it never had a clean idle. It did kick ass above 3,500 rpms after it was warmed up all the way.


MAP, speed density, Alfa N and a few more names that I do not know. They are all the same. They infer air flow based on boost, vacuum, and few more sensor. Is really a very poor way of tuning your fuel. This is why most of the OEM has junked the MAP and gone to the MAF. The aftermarket is starting to make the change over now but a few of the older systems have not been able to do it.

Please keep the great questions coming.


Thanks again

Later........Nick
 
MPNick said:
You already have it built in to your unit. You just need to wire that part of up and tune both maps.


Thanks again


Later..........Nick

Ahh, cool. How is it done?
 
MPNick said:
I think we are lossing sight of what the goal is here. We are talking about a street car that would be running around 15-18psi max. Sofar we have done this and we have had no problems. Not one bad plug, no fuel wash in the crankcase, no black smoke at WOT, no stumbles, no over heated engines and I think one of the fastes stock engine MSP around. So what are the problems that I need to be looking for other then the ones we do not have.

...

My only problem with this claim you keep making is that this is on a MSP. The ECU on the MSP already can handle boost on its own. Maybe not 18psi, but people have cranked it up to 12psi and have been just fine, because it is willing to run rich.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you've got a P5 or MP3 running 18psi with the MPI tuner, but if its an MSP+MPI tuner, I'm not convinced how high you can go.

For me, it really doesn't matter. When I boost next year I'll be getting the SPOOL stage 1 and running about 5psi non-intercooled. I will either switch out to a P5 ECU for retarding the timing of the MP3, or a piggyback for retarding the timing and to add fuel more accurately than an FMU... So I still am curious on the MPI Tuner :).

Chris
 
MPNick said:
It is also a fact the no one cylinder will get the same amount of air in as the next cylinder in an OEM intake manifold. I have yet to see any OEM car maker install four injectors that have four flow rates. What I mean is we know the in any engine the air flow is not the same from port to port. So how come the OEM does not install injectors with match flow rates to work with one port that flows more then the other. Also you can take out brand new injectors, send them out to have the tested. More then likely you will find that you have four different flowing injectors.

We are not talking about a 9,000 rpm race engine here. If you are off a few % with the throttle body injectors it will not matter. It may in fact help even out the fuel from port to port.

Again, Air and Fuel have completely different characteristics. When discussing flow, density, temp and energy expansion rates.
When the manifold is under pressure the air/ fuel charge behind the valve will be MUCH more precise when the fuel is injected in the dedicated runner of choice. Whether they are extra injectors or not it doesnt matter . Tuned port injection will always meet a tighter tolerance for efficiency and performance.
A couple of injectors added to a system where ever in the intake tract is solely for enrichment. Not precision and high performance.
Will it work. YES. Is it the best way NO.
The only time port to port variations could be seen and improved would be the conversion from TBI to sequential firing of the injectors in dedicated cylinders. Multi point injection.
 
perfworks said:

A couple of injectors added to a system where ever in the intake tract is solely for enrichment.
Will it work. YES.
.

Yes I can agree with Nick K here. We are only looking to match up the AFR for the boost we are running.

Do you think that you would be giving up some power or performance with the injectors by the throttle body?

We have other three options.

If you are going to stay with a low boost system you would not need the extra injectors at all. The MPI Tuner will now allow you to tune the stock OEM injectors to keep your AFR safe.

If you are going to run high boost then you need more then stock injectors. You can run a staged injector setup. We have a Mazda who will be getting this system running very soon, very , very soon I hope.

Or the last way we would ever go is to run bigger injectors. We have already tested this with our MPI Tuner and MAF. It works but I do not care for the idle. They were however very large units,560cc. We still did not get the 450cc units in for testing. They will idle fine but never as good as the stock units.

Anyway you need to make power, the MPI Tuner will make sure you AFR is always safe. Plus about ten other things that nothing else can do.


Thanks again


Later..........Nick

All the EVO parts must have cost big bucks
 
DooMer_MP3 said:
My only problem with this claim you keep making is that this is on a MSP. The ECU on the MSP already can handle boost on its own. Maybe not 18psi, but people have cranked it up to 12psi and have been just fine, because it is willing to run rich.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you've got a P5 or MP3 running 18psi with the MPI tuner, but if its an MSP+MPI tuner, I'm not convinced how high you can go.


Chris

Chris please keep in mind the with the MPI Tuner it will not matter. You will have complete control of you fuel, spark and boost. I keep bring up the MSP because Dean is a car nut and he will push the car until it breaks. None of my other customer would ever run that much boost on a stock engine. I do not like to run it that high but he likes the feel of the power.

Please keep the great questions coming.


Thanks again


Later............Nick
 
srd555 said:
OK Nick I have an idea.

Can you do a mini Tutorial with screen shots of each screen?

I know that would help with a lot of questions. You dont have to give away trade seacrets, just somthing that will help me make up my mind that I will be able to handle the programming myself.
If I can tune with it anyone can. Here is a sceen shot of our fuel tuning table.

On the left is all of the inputs that we read to help you see what is going on. You do not need to know pulse with, duty cycle or injector on time. If you need more fuel you type in bigger numbers, less fuel type in smaller numbers. With the MPI Tuner you can do all of the tuning live, as you drive the car. To make it easy to tune while you drive you ony have to tap two keys. The red box that you see will move with the engine. It will show you where your are at any point during engine running.

If you are driving at 3,600 rpm, 55% throttle and 6-8psi boost, you will see the red box move to that part of the table. Lets say you feel that you have a stumble at that point, are you to rich or to lean? Maybe you did not get a chance to look at the AFR read out. So then just hold it right there and tap the F4 key a few times. By tapping the F4 key you just added fuel. Maybe now you find the stumble did not get better or maybe it now stumbles even more. So you just found out the it did not need more fuel at that point. Run the car back up to that point and now tap the F5 key a few times. Now you find the stumble is much less and you just removed some fuel. You did not need a dyno or a $300.00 wide band to tell you what your car needed to run right at that point.

You can also drive the car and data log the run, then pull over and play the data log file. You can pause it at any point to take your time looking at the whole table. You can also e-mail me the file. I can replay it on my computer and see what your car is doing. I then can tune your file based on this and e-mail it back to you within a few minutes. I will cover more later on.


Please let me know if you have any questions at all.


Thanks again


Later...........Nick
 

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That's where the "cursor" is. Where you see the green box is where the value will changed if you type it in on the right. The "F" keys will only change were the red box is.
 
LinuxRacr said:
Hey Nick, on the table, what does the green square indicate?
Your PRS will tune almost the same way. The boost coulmn scale on the right for the MPI Tunner starts at the top and drops to the bottom with boost.

Yours will start at the bottom and climb to the top. Your fuel table will start at 0, injector would be closed. You can add fuel from there. We use our as a piggyback, we also start at 0. If the MPI Tuner is set to 0 it would not change the fuel at this point, it would just the stock signal back out to the stock ecm.

I say we use the MPI Tuner as a piggyback because it can also be used as a standalone It can run a 4 cylinder engine. We do not use it a standalone becuase it does not have idle control and a air temp sensor.

Please keep the question coming, I will add some info on spark timing later.


Thanks again


Later.......Nick
 
MPI Tuner users can now switch to open loop type mode. All new MPI Tuners shipped will be able to switch to open loop type mode when you are under boost load.

We now take the ECT, ACT and the O2 signals and clamp them under boost load to add fuel along with MAF tuning. People that do not plan on running high boost and do not want to run extra injectors can now run upto 8 psi of boost with the stock injectors. You do not need to add big numbers to your MAF output so do not have the CEL or any of the problem that other piggyback have.

Please let me know if you have any questions at all.

Thanks again


Later.........Nick
 
well do u have pricing on ur unit for msp owners?? also does ur programin software offer 3d maping? or only that 2d style table maping?
 
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