jersey_emt said:Nick, I'm not doubting your knowledge, bashing your product, or anything, but it doesn't seem possible for the MPI tuner to work with only the stock injectors. Because of open loop...when you just can't modify the O2 sensor reading because it's ignored anyway.
Do you have a way around this? I don't want to install extra injectors, or upgrade the stock injectors.
So, it looks like, for what I want, I have a few choices: Spool's E-manage, Nick's AFC-II, and your MPI tuner (if it can control the stock injectors using the stock MAF).
KzA said:I really want to get this boost control setup on my car and I am rvery excited to make it happen, as long as the fundage is right..Nick and I are working it out right now so stay posted...
BTW
Not to start a flame, But I would just liek to say KUDOS to Nick for starting a kickass, informational thread...You have finally answered the call from all of these people here like I knew you would..This is what they were looking for from the beginning..GREAT THREAD
jersey_emt said:
I don't want to install extra injectors, or upgrade the stock injectors.
MPNick said:The O 2 tuning only works in closed loop. In open loop you may need run extra injectors.
srd555 said:OK Nick I have an idea.
Can you do a mini Tutorial with screen shots of each screen?
I know that would help with a lot of questions. You dont have to give away trade seacrets, just somthing that will help me make up my mind that I will be able to handle the programming myself.
turboge said:I can see how this applies to P5 or MP3 owners, but with the MSP our open loop is already TOO rich, how would extra injectors solve an already rich open loop? What is the recommended way of running an MSP vs running a P5 or MP3?
Corky Bell disagrees with this, as do i. but if you think that's the way to go, then go for it.MPNick said:I still feel that running extra injectors is the best way to go for bigger power.
hukster00 said:is there a whay to get rid of the maf sensor ? with youre system or is full stand alone the only whay ? and will the tuner control bigger injectors instead of adding them in ? dose it have a feature that prevents the car from stalling like the afc so we can vent the bov and have the car not stall or buckle ?
thanks,
tom
jred321 said:Corky Bell disagrees with this.
jred321 said:"Some systems attempt to increase power by adding one or two injectors overall, rather than per cylinder. These injectors are customarily placed in the air tube entering the throttle body and can be pulsed by a small control box based on an rpm and boost-pressure signal. As is the case with increasing fuel pressure, adding injectors is practical only up to about 9 psi. This is not an ideal system, and, if used, care must be exercised in locating the injectors, to achieve equal distribution of fuel to the cylinders in a manifold designed to flow air only. The injectors must also be sized to deliver the fuel required for the desired airflow rates. Ideally, one extra injector per cylinder is required for serious power. Otherwise, consider this a low-boost-power mechanism."
-Maximum Boost
makes sense to me.
there is no doubt that your system is better than an fmu, as they are pretty crude methods themselves and shouldn't be used for any serious power. i have no doubt that extra injectors work, i just don't think it is the best way to go and have yet to see anything to prove otherwise.
and it's not too hard to make more power than the stock injectors can handle, as they're pretty small as is and are getting high in duty cycle in slightly above stock form. if perf gets the s-afc working (since i can get one for pretty cheap) i'm probably going to try to figure out a way to make my dsm 450's work, just to be on the safe side.
many things will work in the real world, i.e. a manifold with unequal length runners, the camaro turbo kit that puts the turbo at the rear axle, but that doesn't mean that it is the best way to do it. sometimes you have to do things that aren't ideal, and they will work (sometimes with no problems), but if the option exists to do things the correct way and not just the easiest I am going to take that route, even if it may end up costing a little more, but that's just me. i personally don't ever plan on running so much boost that whatever size injectors that are in there will not keep up, and plan to monitor things like this, but this is all in the future as i have no money now (until i get back from australia) and am not sure if i even want to mess with the msp and risk having it down or just wait til i can afford a project car as well and tune that instead.MPNick said:There is the real world where you have people doing it and there is the world of books and what should or should not work. I was also told that it cannot be done. If you run that much boost that the stock injectors are not going to work how are you going to retard the timing?
Thanks again
Later.............Nick
There is a big difference between port injection and TB injection.igdrasil said:If any of you have problems running injectors before the TB, then get an Intake manifold and mount 4 aditional injectors, one on each runner, whats the excuse now?
*hint*