Shifting problems again

:
2002 P5, 1978 F250
Heres the history: I was getting a slight grind when shifting into 3rd gear, and everyone was telling me that it is a problem with my 3rd gear synchro. I took my car in for warranty work, and I got the clutch TSB fix and my rotors machined but they did not find a problem with the synchros. I took the mechanic in the car with me and "recreated" the problem in front of him. He said it was a synchro problem, but since I was shifting over 4500 RPM, it was NOT considered "normal driving" and cant be covered under warranty. I didnt argure with him because I knew it wasnt up to him anyways. I took the car back and let the top service advisor drive it with me in the car and he said he didnt feel/hear anything. He then let me drive and I got the 3rd gear to do the grinding noise every time. He said since I was "power shifting", it was a normal sound and nothing is broken. I guess he considered shifting over 4500 RPM "power shifting".

We get back to the dealership and I ask him "if my car didn't do this when I first bought it, then how is it normal that its grinding at 17,000 miles and still normal?" He then said it was "definatly not a synchro problem, it is probably a linkage problem". I asked him why his mechanic swore it was a synchro problem and he said his mechanic doesnt know anything (this is the dealerships mazdaspeed mechanic by the way). I said "whatever it is, I want it fixed". He says theres nothing wrong even thought I could see the expression on his face when he heard the massive grinding sound. I stood there for a good 20 minutes asking him questions to get a decent answer out of him as to why that noise is considered normal if no other protege's on his lot will make the same noise.

He said I could get a Mazda rep out there to look at it and give his opinion, but if there is nothing wrong with the car I am going to be held liable for the costs of doing that? I think thats some BS. He also said he could take the transmission apart but he he doesnt find anything wrong then I will have to pay for the labor.

What are my options? Is he feeding me BS or is this a "normal" item. The mechanic, JDMSam, and everyone on this board has told me its a synchro problem. The mechanic and Sam even drove the car themselves and said it was a synchro. This guy is the only one telling me otherwise, and the only one telling me its normal for a car with 17k miles.
 
Your issue sounds EXACTLY like what I was going through. The guy is just yanking you around... I didn't end up getting a rebuild, but my friend at a tranny shop agreed that the problem was a synchro issue... He then gave me four quarts of Red Line MTL and told me to try it.

I dropped it into the tranny, and drove around for a while to wear it in, and lo and behold... No more grind after that! It seems to take a little to 'settle in', but after that, it smooths shifting right up, no more grind or whatnot. But GOD do I hate it when service departments give me a hard time. Uugh.
 
flat_black said:
Your issue sounds EXACTLY like what I was going through. The guy is just yanking you around... I didn't end up getting a rebuild, but my friend at a tranny shop agreed that the problem was a synchro issue... He then gave me four quarts of Red Line MTL and told me to try it.

I dropped it into the tranny, and drove around for a while to wear it in, and lo and behold... No more grind after that! It seems to take a little to 'settle in', but after that, it smooths shifting right up, no more grind or whatnot. But GOD do I hate it when service departments give me a hard time. Uugh.

Was your problem only on fast shifts at higher RPM? Mine only feels weird on lower RPM shifts, but makes the grind at higher RPM's. Since they changed the tranny fluid out while replacing my clutch the problem isnt as bad, but I would rather change synchros now than a transmission later on.

This service advisor says he was a mechanic for 19 years, and swears its not a synchro. He wants me to wait until the problem ultimatley causes the tranny to get worse or fail. I would like to not waste any more of my time whenever the transmission decides to die, I use my car as a show car and I cant schedule it to break down whenever its convienient. I have driven my car back and forth to this out of the way dealership because its supposed to have better service.

I want the tranny fixed before I get my TWM shifter in because I am planning on using synthetic transmission fluid. I can just see them refusing to fix the synchro saying I modified the transmission. I dont want to wait around until it breaks.

I am going to see if the local dealership will change out the synchro without messing up my car any more than they have already. If they say it is a synchro problem without taking the car apart, I am going to get it in writting along with it in writting from a local shop that my dad knows. I will go ahead and call Mazda about it although they prob wont do anything about it just yet. Hopefully the proof from the other mechanics will get them to get off their lazy ass.
 
Try to get an estimate from a local shop. If they do find a problem, fax a letter along with an invoice/estimate saying that Mazda will have to reimburse your expenses or the dealer can fix it.
 
Yeah, my problems were at higher revs, and shifting fast... If I shifted slow, or double clutched (Real double clutching. =P), I avoided the grind, generally. Lower revs, it felt like it was notching into gear, like catching the edge of a gear.

I vote you try Red Line, and write Mazda a nasty letter. Bastards!
 
flat_black said:
Yeah, my problems were at higher revs, and shifting fast... If I shifted slow, or double clutched (Real double clutching. =P), I avoided the grind, generally. Lower revs, it felt like it was notching into gear, like catching the edge of a gear.

I vote you try Red Line, and write Mazda a nasty letter. Bastards!

Thanks!. I want to try a little more to have the dealership fix it, even if it means involving a Mazda rep. Your quote of the problem along with several others on here will prob. help me out a little too.

I'll have:
-Quote from a local shop / or problem in writting from other dealership
-Descriptions of the problems from members here
-This thread printed up (bad idea or good idea)
-Mazda Headquarter suggestions
 
ELEmental59437 said:
I was thinking it might cause a problem too, but I dont see where.. better safe than sorry.


I'm thinking they'll make the "internet" arguement that it isn't valid info because "we", other forum members, might just be saying this to help you out...
 
StuttersC said:
I'm thinking they'll make the "internet" arguement that it isn't valid info because "we", other forum members, might just be saying this to help you out...

well they can do a record check on my car then, ive had the 1st, 2nd, AND 3rd gear synchro replaced. when i took it in the first time for the third gear synchro the mechanics didnt hear it and ASKED me to take them for a drive, i did, showed them the grinding and right in the car the mechnic said, yup take her back we will order a new third gear,and synchro for you.

Personally before you go further I would just call mazda of america and tell them about the service, and tell them that the service manager REFUSES to fix a MAZDA defect. if mazda didnt want you shifting that high in the rpms, then they wouldnt have givin you those RPMs.
 
that dealership brought out a fairly large bulls*** spreader, it seems Elemental...They cannot say it was "caused by abnormal" driving, or that you are shifting to high or whatever...The warranty covers the vehicle over the entire operating range...If you crack a diff under full acceleration at 6000rpm, they still have to legaly cover it...

Lots of guys on the other board snapped third gear shift forks, which completely ruined the box...IMO this was always caused by someone shifting extremely hard, or that had been shifting extremely hard...and dealerships always covered it under warranty as long as the shifter itself was not modified...

A clutch engagement/release quirck can cause gear grinding, and since your clutch was replaced and the problem still is there...it must be internal...and they have to fix it under warranty...I don't know what orifice that tech pulled the "above 4500 rpm is not normal driving" out of, but it is complete bull s***...If they only covered the gearbox up to 4500 rpm, they legaly would have to set the redline at 4500 rpm...Even those black box things some manufacturers use that show the driving style, do not allow a dealer to neglect warranty service unless the vehicle excedes redline...They are mostly used for advice given to the owner on how to prevent it the next time...
 
What do you think about this as a next action:

First, I am going to call Mazda headquarters and talk to them, see what they say.

Then, I am going to call up the guy that insisted it was not a synchro.. and have him give it to me in writting the it is "a normal sound for my car to make". I also think I will try having the mechanic give it to me in writting that it is a synchro and I am not driving "normally". I doubt I will get the writting from the mechanic, but I might get it from the service advisor. I will simply tell them I need this for my report to Mazda headquarters. Hopefully by then they will agree to replace the synchro, if not I still have Mazda headquarters as my backup plan.

I would like to have a video camera with me and record my car making the sound with the Mazda service advisor in the car, and have him say it isn't a synchro and its normal, but thats just going too far IMO.
 
Don't you mean the VIN number? It's right under you inspection sticker on the dash, behind the windshield.
 
LinuxRacr said:
Don't you mean the VIN number? It's right under you inspection sticker on the dash, behind the windshield.

No, most of the TSB's say VIN #.. the TSB on the synchro says S/N.....????
 
whoa i had this discussion earlier

but i still get this grind when shifting to 3rd from time to time.. only when i'm near 5000 rpm.. dealership said nothings wrong with it.. also.. i went in for clutch change.. for the early mornign chatters.. those guys ( dealer) said nothing wrong with it either and that if it was the clutch my warrantee is out so *cries*
 
Re: whoa i had this discussion earlier

mofoaka said:
but i still get this grind when shifting to 3rd from time to time.. only when i'm near 5000 rpm.. dealership said nothings wrong with it.. also.. i went in for clutch change.. for the early mornign chatters.. those guys ( dealer) said nothing wrong with it either and that if it was the clutch my warrantee is out so *cries*

Print the TSB on the clutch chatter.. and on the 3rd gear synchro.. the TSB printed up is the only thing that got my the new clutch, and I better get some damn respect with this synchro TSB.
 
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