Troubling things...1/4 mile predictions

Anyone else in this boat?

I keep seeing comments like "With 'that much ____ (power/psi/whatever) you should be in the _____ (insert 1/4 mile time)".

I'd love for people to get e/t's out of their brains. E/T is a driver issue - NOT a power issue, for any given car. Vipers in the wrong hands run 14s. I've seen a Z06 run 18.1s. When somebody adds power to their car, they won't instantly be any quicker. The tale is in the TRAP speed. Assuming they shift the same as prior to the power-adders, their trap speed will increase if the mods they did actually worked.

The first time I took my PGT to the track, I went 15.00 @ 100mph. I had ran a 15.1 @ 90 prior to the turbo. By some of your standards, you'd claim "Haha! a Turbo on a Probe only makes it .1 faster in the 1/4 mile!!"

Do you know what practice did for me?

TWO seconds and 7 mph. Same boost levels. ~same power.

Another thing to keep in mind:

If it takes 15hp to go from 15.5 to 15.0, it might take FIFTY hp to go from 15.0 to 14.5, assuming all things were equal. The faster you go, the more power it takes. So when HiBoost runs 13.5 @ 109mph, people would show their racing maturity to offer things like "Damn! NICE Trap speed"...and NOT "All that power, and you only went .3 faster?????"



Get off the e/t kick - on the streets, where I assume MOST of us drive, Trap speed is king; Id est, two cars with the same e/t, but different trap speeds in a STREET race will end up with the higher trap speed car winning.

I'm off my soap box now.

i agree up to your last statement...higher trap speed/high ET is usually indicative of higher power, while lower ET/lower trap speed is usually indicative of better traction. since most street races are heavily dependent on off-the-line traction and don't reach 1/4 speeds, i'd say the car w/ better traction will usually win. (but you'd be correct on the highway).

case in point: when i had my stock RSX-S, my buddy had just goten a WRX. his car whupped mine off the line (as evidenced in the two cars' drastically different 1/4 ETs), but the RSX-S kept up nicely once it got rolling (say, above 25 mph) and actually pulled closer as speeds rose. on the highway, the Subaru didn't accelerate nearly as quickly (as evidenced by the relatively close ETs). the close ETs make sense since the two cars power/weight ratios are almost equal (WRX: 13.58, RSX: 13.75) as do the different ETs since the WRX has vastly superior traction at launch.

i wish i had the place to practice so when i eventually go to the track (we got off work too late today and i couldnt drive 1 3/4hrs to the track by 6)...im really horrible probably at track driving...maybe you should make a how-to on how to race darin and with the terms and explanations on trap speeds, etc...you are very experienced and it would contribute a lot to the forum with that addition...i know it would help me out a lot, and it would help out a lot of other people as well

oh btw - Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.

(If you can read this, you have too much education.)

dmitrik4 said:

i agree up to your last statement...higher trap speed/high ET is usually indicative of higher power, while lower ET/lower trap speed is usually indicative of better traction. since most street races are heavily dependent on off-the-line traction and don't reach 1/4 speeds, i'd say the car w/ better traction will usually win. (but you'd be correct on the highway).

case in point: when i had my stock RSX-S, my buddy had just goten a WRX. his car whupped mine off the line (as evidenced in the two cars' drastically different 1/4 ETs), but the RSX-S kept up nicely once it got rolling (say, above 25 mph) and actually pulled closer as speeds rose. on the highway, the Subaru didn't accelerate nearly as quickly (as evidenced by the relatively close ETs). the close ETs make sense since the two cars power/weight ratios are almost equal (WRX: 13.58, RSX: 13.75) as do the different ETs since the WRX has vastly superior traction at launch.

Click to expand...

Then what don't you agree about my last statement? Higher Trap speed = more power...E/T is a function of how well the power gets to the ground...

Take 2 RSXs...1 has 250whp, the other has 200whp. While they both could produce similar E/Ts, due to driver, the 250whp car would have a MUCH higher trap speed.



The WRX killed you because of traction - at speed, the AWD was just one more thing to consume his HP, as it traveled to the ground.

Many of us don't participate in street racing. I will agree that in a street race from a rolling start, who wins is determined by who is making more power than who can get off the line better. But at any track I've ever been to in the past 4 years, the win light goes to the person who crosses the line first (fastest ET, not trap.)

I agree that trap speed is a good indicator of how much power you are making, but your time is better spent getting your car dynoed if you want to measure power. At the strip, the goal is to get from point a-b before the other driver. That means E/T matters. Trap means dick in a heads up race. A driver has just as much influence on who wins as the number of supposed ponies that are corraled under the hood and how fast you can get going. Besides, if you can't get your car off the line, how much trap are you shorting yourself? How skewed are your perceived power numbers?

When I bracket race or heads-up, I love the thought that a losing driver has to tell himself that "man, at least I trapped at 100MPH" as a way to better accept the loss. Meanwhile, take a seat in the bleachers as I go to the next round.

Any dummy with enough money can get their hands on a fast car...but not every dummy can drive a car fast.

As Sheriff Jon Bunnel would say- "Just another high-performance car, with a low performance driver."

I'd rather have a low performance car and be a better driver...just my opinion.

Darin said:

Then what don't you agree about my last statement? Higher Trap speed = more power...E/T is a function of how well the power gets to the ground...

Take 2 RSXs...1 has 250whp, the other has 200whp. While they both could produce similar E/Ts, due to driver, the 250whp car would have a MUCH higher trap speed.



The WRX killed you because of traction - at speed, the AWD was just one more thing to consume his HP, as it traveled to the ground.

Click to expand...

just your last statement as it relates to street racing...i'd say traction is more important than how hard a car pulls at higher speeds, since most street races seem to be over by ~60 mph. witness the WRX beating the RSX soundly....more traciton as you said.

but like i said, on a highway the reverse is true. the RSX puts more power to the wheels and accelerates harder at speed.

maybe i just misunderstood what you were saying as far as

on the streets, where I assume MOST of us drive, Trap speed is king; Id est, two cars with the same e/t, but different trap speeds in a STREET race will end up with the higher trap speed car winning

Click to expand...

.



mike <--- realized it was foolish and doesn't street race anymore.

SeminoleMan said:

Besides, if you can't get your car off the line, how much trap are you shorting yourself? How skewed are your perceived power numbers?

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actually, traction off the line has surprisingly little to do with trap speed. almost nothing, in fact...thin about it. you still have the same distance in which to accelerate to a given speed, no matter how much smoke your tires are making at the line.

SeminoleMan said:

I'd rather have a low performance car and be a better driver...just my opinion.

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agreed. i'll be the first to admit you can spell "Protege": S-L-O-W.