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Thread: 302hp RAV4

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avoidin Deer View Post
    Except that Toyota and Mazda are in bed together.

    Last I looked, Toyota owns 5% of Mazda's stock.
    Mazda's financial statement is full of references to the Toyota/Mazda partnership.
    I believe Mazda intends to license Toyota's electric engine technology and incorporate it into Zoom Zoom.

    So I'm not certain there is predatory behaviour here...although I may be wrong.
    Youíre not wrong. Mazda is even switching over to Toyota for financing instead of using Chase Bank.

  2. #32
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    Regarding the comment about 400 miles, more like struggling to get 300. My 2015 lit the gas light a few times before 300 and I don't think I took it above 350 more than a time or two.

    Back to the RAV4. On paper this is a beast. PHEV though, well you get that tax credit, but they raise the price by it too. So, you can count on this being at least $45K in XSE trim (wouldn't be unlikely that it hit $48K) and you'll still pay the sales tax and other fees on that $7.5K rebate. For me, PHEV's don't work well because I have an apartment and can't plug them in for charging. I have to take them to a charger which is a pain and while it's not as expensive as gas to charge, it can still run about a 1/3 of the price of gas.

    I also wonder what it's like with no engine noise, leaving you with the orchestra of road and wind noise in the RAV4?

    On the other hand, sure puts the Diesel CX-5 in it's place. Mazda's in defcon mode with all of these hybrids going up against the only vehicle it can sell.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avoidin Deer View Post
    Except that Toyota and Mazda are in bed together.

    Last I looked, Toyota owns 5% of Mazda's stock.
    Mazda's financial statement is full of references to the Toyota/Mazda partnership.
    I believe Mazda intends to license Toyota's electric engine technology and incorporate it into Zoom Zoom.

    So I'm not certain there is predatory behaviour here...although I may be wrong.
    Mazda owns 5% of Toyota and Toyota owns 5% of Mazda. A lot more capital from Mazda.

    The MX-30 uses Mazda developed electrification technology. Future models will use tech from Toyota.

    I'm excited to see the new inline 6 Skyactiv-X RWD platform. Lexus is likely to use that platform too.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avoidin Deer View Post
    Except that Toyota and Mazda are in bed together.

    Last I looked, Toyota owns 5% of Mazda's stock.
    Mazda's financial statement is full of references to the Toyota/Mazda partnership.
    I believe Mazda intends to license Toyota's electric engine technology and incorporate it into Zoom Zoom.

    So I'm not certain there is predatory behaviour here...although I may be wrong.
    Cool. This must be why the RAV4 also isn't meant to compete with the Forester. You know, that 20% stake they own in Subaru has totally eliminated RAV4 and Forester competition. I don't see why 5% should fail to do the same with Mazda, yeah?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seminole View Post
    Don't think it will be that extreme. Probably around $32-35k for the base Prime model if I had to guess.
    Wait you think its going to be a sub U.S. 40k car? Are you crazy LOL! That would be a steal. I'd probably get/afford/enjoy one.

    Folks thinking MSRP start under 40k vs Folks thinking MSRP starts over 40k

    Let the battle begin!!

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  7. #37
    Registered Member CX-5um's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by sm1ke View Post
    Either way, it won't be the 50k you predicted.
    Yeah It was sort of a high prediction That said Tesla should be worried once Toyota starts implementing higher output on Lexus models.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CX-5um View Post
    Yeah It was sort of a high prediction That said Tesla should be worried once Toyota starts implementing higher output on Lexus models.
    It will be interesting. Tesla bought out Maxell to gain the ultracapacitor and there was some speculation if it would lock in long range battery tech. Let's hope that other car manufacturers are working strategically on a counter move or advancing battery technology. The thought of having to stop 30 plus minutes to recharge on an interstate drive keeps me from jumping into PHEV. I simply don't have the patience and I like driving at higher speeds, which use up batteries quickly.

    Here is some latest talk https://electrek.co/2019/10/07/tesla...itor-business/

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felt_Rider View Post
    It will be interesting. Tesla bought out Maxell to gain the ultracapacitor and there was some speculation if it would lock in long range battery tech. Let's hope that other car manufacturers are working strategically on a counter move or advancing battery technology. The thought of having to stop 30 plus minutes to recharge on an interstate drive keeps me from jumping into PHEV. I simply don't have the patience and I like driving at higher speeds, which use up batteries quickly.

    Here is some latest talk https://electrek.co/2019/10/07/tesla...itor-business/
    EV: need to plug in and charge when out of juice (no gas engine)
    PHEV: switches to hybrid mode and keeps on going when the battery is depleted. No recharge required.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruthrj View Post
    EV: need to plug in and charge when out of juice (no gas engine)
    PHEV: switches to hybrid mode and keeps on going when the battery is depleted. No recharge required.
    Yes, thanks. I made a couple of errors in that post. I meant EV (CX-5um brought up Tesla EV) for my personal car and it is Maxwell not Maxell that I posted above.
    Last edited by Felt_Rider; 11-21-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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  11. #41
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    Revisiting price.

    An XSE runs from roughly $35K to $38K. This will have a $7,500 credit. Guaranteed $43 to $45K sticker on that alone. Who knows what an SE will go for but it sounds like a loaded XLE, which I think tops out at about $34/$35K*. If the SE is like a base XLE Hybrid then maybe it's $31K + $8K, meaning about $39K. So do the math with the credit. It may not hit $50 like I predicted earlier, but it's going above $40 for the XSE, at least.

    * Toyota pricing is weird. They package the hell out of their cars so it's hard to price compare when you can end up with lower trims costing more than higher trims based on packages. Mazda, comparatively, is super easy to figure out.
    Last edited by dyingquail; 11-21-2019 at 11:31 AM. Reason: SE Correction

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Googleplex View Post
    Mazda owns 5% of Toyota and Toyota owns 5% of Mazda. A lot more capital from Mazda.

    The MX-30 uses Mazda developed electrification technology. Future models will use tech from Toyota.

    I'm excited to see the new inline 6 Skyactiv-X RWD platform. Lexus is likely to use that platform too.
    Just to clarify (and I cannot find the facts right now), Mazda does not own 5% of Toyota stock. That would be $10B USD. Mazda's ownership stake in Toyota (as a % of shares outstanding) is way, way less that Toyota's stake in Mazda. I wish I could recall where I saw the specifics...

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dyingquail View Post
    Revisiting price.

    An XSE runs from roughly $35K to $38K. This will have a $7,500 credit. Guaranteed $43 to $45K sticker on that alone. Who knows what an SE will go for but it sounds like a loaded XLE, which I think tops out at about $34/$35K*. If the SE is like a base XLE Hybrid then maybe it's $31K + $8K, meaning about $39K. So do the math with the credit. It may not hit $50 like I predicted earlier, but it's going above $40 for the XSE, at least.

    * Toyota pricing is weird. They package the hell out of their cars so it's hard to price compare when you can end up with lower trims costing more than higher trims based on packages. Mazda, comparatively, is super easy to figure out.
    Youíre absolutely right about the different packages. I have an XLE Premium, which is an XLE with SofTex interior. But I have the weather package for heated steering wheel and seats. But I donít have the Entune Premium with JBL speakers, just plain radio. It made it confusing as hell to shop and price lol.

    The only perk to the gas version is you can get them for thousands below MSRP due to the availability and success of the hybrid versions. Canít negotiate those suckers down to invoice or less right now.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlong01 View Post
    Can't you guys ever be happy?
    LOL not on this forum.


  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by finch204 View Post
    LOL not on this forum.
    If we were ever happy, our economy would crash down around our ears.

    Dissatisfaction is what keeps us pulling our wallets out, over and over again.

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