Mazda Popularity

ColoradoDriver said:
I've said it before, but while the Gen 2 CX-5 styling isn't my cup of tea, the new RAV4 looks like a damn Tonka toy or something.
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Exactly: like a toy. An ugly toy.
But sometimes you gotta just hold your nose and put up with something you don't like to get what you want or need, dontcha?
Just think how many ugly cars have been made. There's no accounting for taste. And I bet there are plenty of people who think it looks "just fine" or even "cool". And you get used to it after awhile anyway.
 
shadonoz said:
Exactly: like a toy. An ugly toy.
But sometimes you gotta just hold your nose and put up with something you don't like to get what you want or need, dontcha?
Just think how many ugly cars have been made. There's no accounting for taste. And I bet there are plenty of people who think it looks "just fine" or even "cool". And you get used to it after awhile anyway.
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And you cant see the styling when you drive anyway ⋯ ;)
 
Buzzman12 said:
"It offers a naturally aspirated engine..." and one of the noisiest and raspy ones at that.
If you like an unrefined drive-train, an 8 speed transmission that can't make up it's mind, and mind numbing handling, then this is for you.
As for that best long term reliability claim, check again. That's history now.

Personally, the Rav4 may be more practical than a CX-5 in terms of size and payload, but I still wouldn't own a car that I can't stand the site of, or loath driving.

BTW, the Rav4 only gets an average of 3.2 stars out of 5.0 owner rating on Edmunds. The Mazda is 4.3. (CR-V gets an average 4.0 user grade).

The new Rav4 is piling up the complaints, less than a year after it was introduced as the next great thing in SUV's.

Ultimately it's what the buying public thinks of their vehicles after they buy one that really counts.
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The Edmunds say 2019 RAV4 has "quiet interior and comfortable ride quality". For 2020 RAV4 Toyota has added missing sound deadening pad beneath the hood which reduced the highway noise from 72db to 68db at 70 mph based on some YouTube video. Toyota also added missing Android Auto with existing Apple CarPlay to the infotainment system for 2020 RAV4.

I have checked the engine noise in person, it's only bad during idling with the hood lifted, not when you're driving. The shift on its 8-speed auto is not indecisive and it should be much better for 2020 RAV4 with updated AT software. The real world MPG is very impressive with high thermal efficiency Dynamic Force naturally aspirated 2.5L and 8-speed base on Fuelly with a big 7.6 mpg jump from 2018's 27.1 to 2019's 34.7!

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yrwei52 said:
The Edmunds say 2019 RAV4 has quiet interior and comfortable ride quality. For 2020 RAV4 Toyota has added missing sound deadening pad beneath the hood which reduced the highway noise from 72db to 68 do at 70 mph based on some YouTube video. Toyota also added missing Android Auto with existing Apple CarPlay to the infotainment system for 2020 RAV4.

I have checked the engine noise in person, its only bad during idling with the hood lifted, not when youre driving. The shift on its 8-speed auto is not indecisive and it should be much better for 2020 RAV4 with updated AT software. The real world MPG is very impressive with high thermal efficiency Dynamic Force naturally aspirated 2.5L and 8-speed base on Fuelly with a big 7.6 mpg jump from 2018s 27.1 to 2019s 34.7!
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According to most of the buyer reviews, real world MPG is nowhere near what Toyota is claiming. Don't swallow the cool-aid.
As for the 8 speed tranny, lots of complaints there too. If it was as good as you say it was in the 2019 MY, why reprogram it for 2020?
And what the heck does "high thermal efficiency Dynamic Force" naturally aspirated 2.5L" mean?. It's just a marketing slogan to suck you into thinking it's some sort of magic potion.
Sort of the same thing as Ford's "Military Grade Aluminum" garbage they always throw at you for their truck ads. (hint: there's no such actual thing).

I've read about 75% of the 30 something pages of buyer reviews on the 2019 RAV4, and there was only one reviewer who mentioned looking at a CX-5.
In that review, he still hadn't made his final purchase, and spoke well of the Mazda.
Every reviewer who mentioned comparison shopping against their RAV4, did not look at a CX-5.
In fact most of the Toyota buyers did zero cross shopping.

On the other hand, multiple reviewers who bought a CX-5 mentioned cross shopping it against CR-V's and RAV4's.
It just goes to prove that Mazda's biggest problem is brand recognition, and lazy buyers that can't be bothered to do any homework.
 
The RAV4 hybrid is 4.1 on Edmunds . Apparently it has issues filling to 100%.

Just read that Honda is getting sued over the cr-v infotainment and some sort of structural defects with the front window. That*s a negative on Honda that I forgot, their best reliability days are in the past and they can be dicks about admitting problems.
 
Zero tranny issues with my 2019 RAV with about 400 miles on it so far. Its decisive and downshifts/up shifts well even thru mountains. I researched over at RAV4World prior to purchase and the tranny issues were early 2019 release and were low speed shifting related (think 0-5 when accelerating or hitting the gas after braking to below 5 mph, programming for that scenario was odd). TSB issued to reprogram the transmission and relearn seems to have fixed that problem. No other major widespread issues Ive encountered at that forum.

As noted earlier, the hybrid seems to be suffering some weird fillup problems where some people cant fill the gas past 3/4 of a tank. No fix yet.

Gas mileage is as good as claimed. 35 mpg on an 80 mile trip from Little River Canyon back to Huntsville. Getting greater than 30 mpg around Huntsville. It really is a good car and a great choice for families or the average joe. Mazda remains a niche product and an excellent one at that. My old Mazda dealership even prided themselves on Mazda being niche.

Do the newest Mazda models steer for you when on cruise control? Its working well on my RAV about 90-95% of the time. Rings and turns off as expected when lanes are unclear.

Honda quality has indeed gone downhill. My 2017 Odyssey was good but no way Id get a newer model after the stories Im reading on Honda forums. They really screwed the pooch with the 1.5 oil dilution issues.
 
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Buzzman12 said:
According to most of the buyer reviews, real world MPG is nowhere near what Toyota is claiming. Don't swallow the cool-aid.
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Really? see the real-world data from Fuelly I posted previously. The same big real-world MPG jump on 2018 Toyota Camry from 2017 with the same Dynamic Force 2.5L and 8-speed auto setup.

As for the 8 speed tranny, lots of complaints there too. If it was as good as you say it was in the 2019 MY, why reprogram it for 2020?
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From your comment I believe you've only read some negative comments on internet but had never test driven a new RAV4. The reprogramming is for those complaints under certain conditions which is normal for a brand new tranny. You won't be able to tell any hunting or frequent shifting with the 8-speed auto when you do a test-drive.

And what the heck does "high thermal efficiency Dynamic Force" naturally aspirated 2.5L" mean?. It's just a marketing slogan to suck you into thinking it's some sort of magic potion.
Sort of the same thing as Ford's "Military Grade Aluminum" garbage they always throw at you for their truck ads. (hint: there's no such actual thing).
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Again, go read many articles available about the design of Toyota's new Dynamic Force 2.5L with industry-leading 40%~41% thermal efficiency. It's this high thermal efficiency which makes this engine so efficient and this's the main reason why the big jump on real-world MPG. 8-speed auto with quick lock-up clutch on torque converter similar to Mazda's SkyActiv-Drive 6-speed auto helps the MPG too. And I haven't mentioned this 2.5L has both port and direct fuel injections which should eliminate many long-term problems from DI.

I've read about 75% of the 30 something pages of buyer reviews on the 2019 RAV4, and there was only one reviewer who mentioned looking at a CX-5.
In that review, he still hadn't made his final purchase, and spoke well of the Mazda.
Every reviewer who mentioned comparison shopping against their RAV4, did not look at a CX-5.
In fact most of the Toyota buyers did zero cross shopping.

On the other hand, multiple reviewers who bought a CX-5 mentioned cross shopping it against CR-V's and RAV4's.
It just goes to prove that Mazda's biggest problem is brand recognition, and lazy buyers that can't be bothered to do any homework.
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This's the problem from Mazda then. Why can Mazda be well-known by the public as it's not a new company and has been on the auto market for as long as Toyota and Honda's?
 
So people are really going to question the reliability of the RAV4? Its a brand new vehicle, new platform, new engine, new transmission. Most if not all new vehicles which get a drastic overhaul in every component ussually have issues in their first year. It's not carrying over the same 7-8 year old powertrain/infotainment like the CX-5 is. BTW, I expect the those CR reliability ratings to drop since Mazda added cylinder deactivation. Some of the new Mazda3 owners are complaining about it in the Mazda3 forum:

https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/sho...ues-I-didn-t-expect-from-the-new-2019-Mazda-3

And those Fuely charts are as real world as one can get for MPG.
 
yrwei52 said:
This's the problem from Mazda then. Why can Mazda be well-known by the public as it's not a new company and has been on the auto market for as long as Toyota and Honda's?
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It's because some people like to point at the boogeymen(Toyota/Honda) because they're huge companies who are appearantly selling more vehicles than Mazda due to a 'past rep' of reliability. Nevermind the fact that they offer more interior space and vastly superior fuel economy. If Toyota/Honda sells more vehicles based on a past reputation, what is the reasoning for Subaru selling more as well? Smaller company than Mazda, less dealers yet twice as many vehicles sold. I'm thinking that extra interior space and better fuel economy might have something to do with it.
 
There seems to be a need to bash everything non-Mazda in this thread. In reality, the competition makes wonderful vehicles, all with their own strengths and weaknesses.

If Mazda has a lacking of sales, I think the sparseness of dealership locations is a big part of the problem. I had to drive almost 30mi to buy my GTR. Between home and my Mazda dealer are easily 3-4 each of Toyota and Honda dealers. I could have purchased any one of the direct competitors right in my town, 5 minutes from home.

Why did I travel the 30 miles to buy? I read the enthusiast reviews and felt that the Mazda best in class handling and drivability when compared to the competition was an important factor for me. I'm less concerned with hyper-mileage and more focused on decent power with great handling, which my GTR provides. The GTR option level meets my needs and I feel the price point provides very good value.

I'll be honest and admit my first choice would have been the new Honda Passport, but it had just been released in February and the Honda dealers were scalping every dollar they could get for them. That said I have no regrets in buying my GTR.
 
I live in a Southern California mountain community. We only get snow for a few weeks per year, not very many inches it usually melts fast. So it's not a testing ground for extreme 4WD demand. But SUV's make up probably 80% of the vehicles I see around here. Subarus, including a lot of older models that look like they have weathered many seasons here seem to be a large majority. I don't see many Hondas or RAV4's. I do see a lot of CX 5's and CX 9's and Hyundais. Very few Infinitis or Lexus SUV's, quite a few BMW's. Can't remember the last time I saw a Nissan. Of the American makers Jeeps are scarce as are Chevys, the most popular US maker seems to be Ford and even those are a small percentage compared to the foreign makers.
 
pcardoza said:
There seems to be a need to bash everything non-Mazda in this thread. In reality, the competition makes wonderful vehicles, all with their own strengths and weaknesses.

If Mazda has a lacking of sales, I think the sparseness of dealership locations is a big part of the problem.
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If Mazda is truly trying to go premium...they actually have a good amount of dealerships as compared to other premium brands (BMW, ect.). At least in larger cities. In that sense...they need to improve the dealership experience + provide premium service/products.
 
I actually don't hate the new RAV4's looks. I think it's a big improvement over last gen. And I'd love that rear view camera thing.
(The rearview mirror is actually a screen tied to a camera at the back of the vehicle. So you have an unobstructed view behind no matter what you have in the back seat or hatch area. Friggin brilliant idea).

Wanted to comment on "technology moves so fast today". It really doesn't in the automotive world.
BSM debuted in 2007 on a Volvo.
Lane Keep assist debuted in 2001 on a Nissan in China.
The backup camera debuted in... 1956. Seriously: The first backup camera was used in the 1956 Buick Centurion concept car, presented in January 1956 at the General Motors Motorama. The vehicle had a rear-mounted television camera that sent images to a TV screen in the dashboard in place of the rear-view mirror.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup_camera
Parking sensors? The 70's.
Park assist beacons: 2003.
The first HUD was on an Oldsmobile... in the 80's.
 
DwightFrye said:
Can't remember the last time I saw a Nissan.
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The 2019 Year-to-Date (Jan-Oct) sales figures for the U.S. show Nissan occupying the spot right below Honda, and nearly double next-lowest manufacturers (Hyundai and Subaru). I was shocked. I'm with you. I hardly see any Nissans around, much less in numbers equal to Honda.

It would be interesting to see region-specific data to know who has a foothold in specific markets...and why.

US%20Auto%20Sales%202019%20thru%20Oct.png
 
7eregrine said:
Wanted to comment on "technology moves so fast today". It really doesn't in the automotive world.
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Funny, I was just having this conversation yesterday.

The first airbag was in a 1951 Tucker. One of the guys said it used argon as the propellant.
 
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7eregrine said:
And I'd love that rear view camera thing.
(The rearview mirror is actually a screen tied to a camera at the back of the vehicle. So you have an unobstructed view behind no matter what you have in the back seat or hatch area. Friggin brilliant idea).
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Sounds interesting. Know if the camera is inside or outside the vehicle?

Wanted to comment on "technology moves so fast today". It really doesn't in the automotive world.
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Yep, well said.
 
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