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Thread: 2020 CR-V Hybrid

  1. #16
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    Hybrid's don't really impress me. In the real world the cost of running one doesn't include the battery replacement. Batteries no matter what kind lose their ability to load what some call a "full" charge over time and lose efficiency. The power rating of the combining engines is suspect also. Hybrids just aren't a viable option until battery technology improves no matter how much we want it to work.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter357 View Post
    Hybrid's don't really impress me. In the real world the cost of running one doesn't include the battery replacement. Batteries no matter what kind lose their ability to load what some call a "full" charge over time and lose efficiency. The power rating of the combining engines is suspect also. Hybrids just aren't a viable option until battery technology improves no matter how much we want it to work.

    I'm sure Toyota doesn't mind. Dealers can't keep the new RAV4 Hybrid and have waiting lists for them:

    https://www.torquenews.com/6626/2019...-you-get-yours

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralf11 View Post
    IIRC, Mazda has a sharing agreement with Toyota.

    Regardless, they will do something sooner or later.
    They inked an agreement with Toyota in 2017 to jointly develop "next generation vehicles," including: HEV (using existing Toyota technology); EV; Plug-in HEV; Mild HEV; and what they call Range Extender. This from their FY18 financials (year ended March 2018).

  4. #19
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    The CRV is a really close competitor to the Grand Touring. The hybrid and the Signature / Reserve are going in opposite directions.

    The CX-5 now has two major competitors pushing 40 MPG and interiors that may not be better but aren't far away. Personally, I really like the CX-5 looks but the MPG, and being able to find a dealer, beat the extra horsepower, and probably, really, not a huge handling advantage.

  5. #20
    Harpy Eagle Chocolate's Avatar

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    Hybrids have very little appeal to me. Gas is 2.60 a gallon as I type this. I don't need an inferior AWD system and a lot of extra complexity to save a few hundred dollars in fuel per year (along with a higher payment). If I'm going electric, which is inevitable in the coming years, I want to go with a full EV.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoDriver View Post
    Why do that. Mazda's MO these days is "but we're a legitimate luxury brand, honest!!!!111!"
    True that...it does appear that the solution is to Go Upmarket. That said the "eventual" base engine Normally Aspirated Skyactiv-X (remember no turbo and no hybrid system) cannot be more expensive then the most expensive CRV model...the Hybrid model.

  7. #22
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    Knowing Honda gas and oil will seep into the electric engine and the whole thing will go up in smoke.

  8. #23
    Registered Member Seminole's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaps View Post
    CRV hybrid is going to have same drivetrain as Accord hybrid which does not use 1.5T. It uses a 40% thermally efficient 2 liter NA engine and it does not have a transmission in true sense. Upto 44 mph it will be a direct drive as an EV with battery or engine acting as a generator. Above 44 it will be directly coupled to the engine or running on battery (if situations allow).
    1.5T will replace the old 2.4 as standard engine available in base model form. Honda has a very sketchy past with its IMA system having a large number of failures. Think old ILX and Civic Hybrids which had 15% failure rate on batteries. But this and the new Insight are based on 2014-16 Accord Hybrid drivetrain.
    I haven't heard of any issues with the newer generation Honda hybrids. I have a 2018 Accord Hybrid and it's had no mechanical issues at all over 14,000 miles.

    Quote Originally Posted by erigion View Post
    The 2.0 engine in Honda's hybrid system also isn't direct injected like the 1.5T. It uses port injection so there should be little to no issue with oil dilution or carbon buildup.

    I'm more curious as to how they're going to implement AWD. I think it'll probably be a mechanical connection to the back wheels but I do like Toyota's solution of electric motors driving the back wheels for the better torque off the line. Off-road performance suffers but I don't care about that at all.
    Autoblog mentioned "The hybrid powertrain comprises a 2.0-liter, Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder aided by two electric motors " https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/18/...rid-announced/

    Honestly, this is a no brainier for someone looking at a compact CUV. The price difference is likely to be negligible compared to the fuel savings. The only downside to the Honda system is the setup vs Toyota. By using direct drive the engine uses a lockup clutch to connect to the wheels at speeds over 45 MPH, but it's a fixed ratio, so at higher speeds the mileage can start to drop off pretty fast. For instance at 60MPH I'm seeing over 50MPG, 65MPH I'm at 47MPG, 70MPH I'm at 45MPG, and 75MPH + it falls to 42ish or lower. The Toyota system is better at higher speeds, but the Honda feels like an EV at low speeds.

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  9. #24
    Registered Member ralf11's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter357 View Post
    Hybrid's don't really impress me. In the real world the cost of running one doesn't include the battery replacement. Batteries no matter what kind lose their ability to load what some call a "full" charge over time and lose efficiency. The power rating of the combining engines is suspect also. Hybrids just aren't a viable option until battery technology improves no matter how much we want it to work.
    Hybrids offer long range - a very useful factor in a vehicle used in the intermountain West, or interior Australia, etc.

    I do not have statistics on battery replacement requirements - do you?

    I do have a friend with a 1999 Prius, and she had to replace the battery -- after 20 years. I suspect we will find hybrids are a lot cheaper than an IC only car for lifetime cost.

  10. #25
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    Between growing solar and EV markets, you gotta think that the next breakthrough in battery technology is just around the corner. There's so much money to be made.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlong01 View Post
    Knowing Honda gas and oil will seep into the electric engine and the whole thing will go up in smoke.
    It used to be known as a reliable brand. Not anymore.

    Here's Consumer Reports' current reliability scorecard by brand.


  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolate View Post
    It used to be known as a reliable brand. Not anymore.

    Here's Consumer Reports' current reliability scorecard by brand.
    So with Consumer Reports, the Mazda went up 8 slots from 2017 to 2018 (from #12 to #4), with the CX-3 being the least reliable in the brand and the 6 being the most reliable.

    Honda went down 5 slots, from #9 to #14.

    Of course, it's Consumer Reports. Their lab-tested ratings and the actual customer-posted ratings are often way off from each other, FWIW...at least with appliances.

  13. #28
    Harpy Eagle Chocolate's Avatar

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    Yeah, the only data they collect that I really care about is the reader reliability survey, which covers a much larger number of real world users (close to 500,000/year). The CX-5 does pretty well.

    Last edited by Chocolate; 09-19-2019 at 04:00 PM.

  14. #29
    Structural Member shadonoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avoidin Deer View Post
    So with Consumer Reports, the Mazda went up 8 slots from 2017 to 2018 (from #12 to #4), with the CX-3 being the least reliable in the brand and the 6 being the most reliable.

    Honda went down 5 slots, from #9 to #14.

    Of course, it's Consumer Reports. Their lab-tested ratings and the actual customer-posted ratings are often way off from each other, FWIW...at least with appliances.
    That's because the reader ratings are based more on functionality AND reliability, and have a huge sample. The lab tests are based mainly on functionality and sometimes simulated reliability, but based on small samples, sometimes a sample of one.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seminole View Post
    Autoblog mentioned "The hybrid powertrain comprises a 2.0-liter, Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder aided by two electric motors " https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/18/...rid-announced/

    Honestly, this is a no brainier for someone looking at a compact CUV. The price difference is likely to be negligible compared to the fuel savings. The only downside to the Honda system is the setup vs Toyota. By using direct drive the engine uses a lockup clutch to connect to the wheels at speeds over 45 MPH, but it's a fixed ratio, so at higher speeds the mileage can start to drop off pretty fast. For instance at 60MPH I'm seeing over 50MPG, 65MPH I'm at 47MPG, 70MPH I'm at 45MPG, and 75MPH + it falls to 42ish or lower. The Toyota system is better at higher speeds, but the Honda feels like an EV at low speeds.
    Yea, I think Honda is just shoving the Accord system into the CR-V like they do in Europe. Though the EU version might have been detuned as it's 181 HP vs the 212 that Honda says the US version is getting.

    It's good to see some numbers on highway efficiency on Honda's system. Reviewers have said there's a drop in MPG at higher speeds but never give actual numbers, not even estimates or ranges.

    Also Alex on Autos just dropped a preview of the new Escape Hybrid where he quotes Ford saying that it can get up to 80mph without starting the ICE which is pretty damn impressive. Too bad reliability for new generation Ford vehicles is pretty awful.

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