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Thread: Poor hot idle after a timing belt replacement

  1. #46
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    Hello again, a quick update.

    As of a minute or two ago, I still have the P0300 code, idle is bad once hot, but I finally passed the evap leak test I think for the first time since I got the scanner.

    To do this, I drove the car roughly a 24 mile trip (12 miles both ways, give or take) and while it does still idle bad once warm, it did also seem to miss mildly a little bit at freeway speeds heading into Puyallup on the first leg of the trip but not on the way home.

    So that is a bit of progress, I think anyway.

    So the next course of action is pull the plugs and see what they look like now. then use the non flammable spray brakekleen to see if I can spot a vacuum leak anywhere and then try to remove the throttle body along with the IAC valve then remove that and get them both cleaned good and see what happens there. I will also once all that is done, add seafoam to the tank and see if that helps (namely to clean the injectors in case they are indeed a bit dirty.

    Anything else I should do next?

  2. #47
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

    2002 mazda protege 5

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    I remember PMing a guy from Oklahoma a bunch of years back.
    His car would only misfire after a full heat soak.
    He even brought an oscilloscope home from work to test the inputs on the ECU.
    He was just about to take his car to the dealer when he decided to put his old original factory coils back on his car to try them and his misfiring stopped.

    His brand new coils would crap out at high temperatures.

    If you only have the "occasional" misfire, it may not foul the plugs but be enough to throw the misfire code and give you a crappy idle.

    I'm thinking your coils are shorting to the valve cover.

    You could test your car in the dark with a spray bottle of water.
    I bet you'll see blue sparks.
    The Diagram Dude

  3. #48
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    The bench test for the coils is useless,(unless they do fail)
    They will almost always pass but then fail on your car.

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  4. #49
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    I replaced my coils as soon as I joined this site after hearing about all the strange and weird ways they were messing with our car.

    I keep my old coils in the trunk just in case my car goes nuts for no apparent reason.
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  5. #50
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ciddyguy View Post
    ... then use the non flammable spray brakekleen to see if I can spot a vacuum leak..

    I'm not sure but you might want to use carb cleaner?

    The non-flammable stuff may not increase your idle and it might not be safe for plastic and rubber (just guessing, I don't know?)
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  6. #51
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    I also have the brake cleen and carb cleaner and can try that, once I get the reasonably clean throttle body back in and see how the car runs (or not). :-)

    But at the very least, it'll be cleaner at worst, it'll make things worse.

    Then it's the coils as all 4 plugs had not changed and seafoam goes in the tank, just to be safe (clean injectors and all that).

    Wish me luck!

    BTW, I agree that the the coils are likely playing tricks with us, but my buddy even briefly thought so too as he had a similar issue with his 2001 F150 and I forget what was the issue but it had coils for every plug, not the wasted spark we have on our cars.

    So back to the grind!

  7. #52
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    Well, the car starts, runs well, as long as the idle is high but once it gets down around 800-900, it's lumpy idle still.

    But it runs, accelerates and all that. Put half a can of Seafoam in the tank to see if that helps any.

    And I just got back from a quick errand and it wants to die when still in gear (automatic), but once in neutral, the idle stays at roughly 1500rpm a lot of the time but runs OK overall otherwise. I will need to pop the throttle body off and replace the gasket as part of it came off and it was too late to go get a fresh one so some extra air may be leaking in there. No leaks otherwise was found.

    So now I'm driving not quite half a tank with Seafoam in it at the moment. The STFT is way high, but the LTFT is mostly at 0.0%, where it should be, unless I accelerate then it goes high momentarily but seems to just drop back to 0.0%, according to the live data stream of the Launch.

  8. #53
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ciddyguy View Post
    Well, the car starts, runs well, as long as the idle is high but once it gets down around 800-900, it's lumpy idle still.
    That's your IAC, the ECU hands off control of the idle to the IAC after the engine warms up and your RPM's drop.
    Last edited by pcb; 08-25-2019 at 09:51 PM.
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  9. #54
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    Question, do you know of a way to remove the stubborn and also chowdered JIS screw?

    Even with the throttle body off, I still could not find a driver to fit snuggly into the stripped out X head on that one screw. I was able to break the others free though without issue.

    I wonder if it was serviced/replaced at one point and someone reefed on the screws as they were tight.

    These are a pain to get off with the TB on the car, especially the back left screw, which is the chowdered one.

    Otherwise I'll Google how. Won't be able to do anything until Friday when I'm off (thanks to a 4 day work week during the summer).

  10. #55
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Perhaps you could use a dremel tool with a cut-off wheel and cut a slot in it then use a flat head screwdriver.
    If you can fit it in there..
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  11. #56
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Another trick I remember is to put your car in gear then push it forward (or back, .. I forget) then block the wheels.
    That rolls the engine in the engine bay a bit and gives you more clearance.
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  12. #57
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    I'll probably go the Dremel route as I do have to remove the throttle body to replace the gasket come Friday anyway and that's the easiest way to access that screw.

    Meanwhile, I can still drive the car the short distance to work until then (less than 10 minutes to and from work).

    Thanks.

  13. #58
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcb View Post
    Perhaps you could use a dremel tool with a cut-off wheel and cut a slot in it then use a flat head screwdriver.
    If you can fit it in there..
    If that doesn't work, you could grind the head of the screw off then remove the IAC.
    You should have 4-5 threads showing that you should be able to grab with a vise-grip.
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  14. #59
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    Yeah, I think getting something to bite the screw so it can be removed is best, however, today, my car runs like shit, can't idle at all with the transmission in gear and not always when in neutral either so a bit of a foot and dance to keep from dying and then restart, it does start usually with no issue, but right now, the codes are P0102, if memory serves, low air flow from the MAF but now the P0304 misfire is back, despite the coils swapped.

    Add to that, I did check the plugs yesterday and they were bone dry, tan but the end of the threads are black, but not oily at all, not wet with gas. Oil in engine does not look diluted with gas and it does chug now on acceleration, but I know 2 problems at the moment, the throttle body needs a new gasket, can't get to that until Friday morning and the IAC may be kaput, at least semi anyway.

    Before leaving work for home, I did double check to ensure everything was plugged in, yep they all were (electrically) as I thought I had done.

    However on the way home, the check engine light began flashing so I'm just hoping it's part of the learning process and will improve at least somewhat in the next day or two.
    Last edited by ciddyguy; 08-26-2019 at 09:52 PM.

  15. #60
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    I have decided that if the prices locally aren't too out of whack, to order up the parts for pickup on Friday and install them and hope that will solve all my ills.

    The new gasket for the throttle body
    New IAC and its gasket
    Two new coils, just to be safe and may also go ahead and replace the plugs if need be since the current set has been hammered for almost a month with bad idling and see how things improve though they generally look fine and not oily or wet, just tan with a bit of black around the end of the threads, normal looking in fact. I will try to remember to check the coils when nearly dark and see if I spot sparkies, if so, they are one of the culprits.

    In the meantime, gotta get to and from work, fortunately, it's not far but can't do anything until I drop by my credit union and get a new debit card, mine somehow got compromised sometime between the 17th of this month and last weekend but my Mint credit monitoring payment went through on the 20th.

    Someone tried to make a $5000 payment on something, I forget what that my CU caught so money is locked up tight and fortunately, the branches are open until 6pm and I get off work at 5, though I might sneak out a few minutes early.

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