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Thread: Poor hot idle after a timing belt replacement

  1. #31
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    Actually, the P0102 is for low air flow, not voltage. The reading the scanner gave me is 7Lb/s I believe it was so above the 217g/s max. It needs to be above 0g/s and 217g/s so that is the issue?

    Anyway, went to find a JIS bit for removing the IAC valve to ensure it's clean and had to Google what JIS was, unfortunately, no one actually makes a true JIS driver or bit, though some make a combo JIS/Phillips that hold onto the bit very well so no camming out once torqued (thus stripping out the head) and is a compromise in any case, not even Vessel makes the true JIS anymore. I bought some bits that might be an improvement over what I have already to see if it bites into the screws properly aren't much.

    Glad other places like Rock Auto sells the MAF for way better than what Parts Warehouse sells them for. The Delphi model was quoted as being $400. Found some on Amazon that were as low as 26.75 or some such a price, way better.

    Anyway, took the car for a quick drive, though goofed and didn't get as long a drive in as I had intended, but the car seems to be idling a bit better? After getting off the freeway and heading ups some steep hills here in town, the idle was much smoother, though not perfect (these cars as you may well know, are not the smoothest motors when at idle, but not agricultural like an Iron Duke 4 though!). It's still misfiring, but nothing like it was and the same 3 codes that come up as generic P codes, P0102, P0103, and P0300 so far after the run. Still comes up evap incomplete and a couple of other parameters are also incomplete. Car ran smooth and was quite responsive however and ecceleration was smooth with no hesitation due to recovering from a bad misfire and so far no pre-cat codes showing, not anything else pending at this time.

  2. #32
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

    2002 mazda protege 5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ciddyguy View Post
    Actually, the P0102 is for low air flow, not voltage. The reading the scanner gave me is 7Lb/s I believe it was so above the 217g/s max. It needs to be above 0g/s and 217g/s so that is the issue?
    I don't know how many grams it needs.

    The Diagram Dude

  3. #33
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    I think you've got a bad MAF and replacing it may very well clear all your codes and quite possibly stop the misfiring.

    The ECU isn't getting proper MAF data so it's just guessing and quite possibly causing the misfire.

    Check your wires and connectors going to the MAF for breaks, shorts or corrosion.
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  4. #34
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    Quite possibly and going with either Amazon or Rock Auto will yield one at a decent to quite affordable price point, rather than upwards of $400 for a Delphi unit locally.

  5. #35
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Amazon might be a better bet.

    I've been waiting three weeks now for my damn axle nuts from RockAuto.
    They were supposed to be here by Aug. 13th.

    Amazon sounds cheaper but make sure it's the right part and not a piece of crap.
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  6. #36
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    Yeah, that has indeed crossed my mind, especially for the coils as I can get TWO of those buggers for the price of just one at Rock Auto (around 23 dollar and change) for one at Rock Auto, the same price for both via Amazon.

    heck, even the Delphi units sold at Rock were MUCH cheaper than the price I was quoted at Parts Warehouse not far from my home ($400 was the price) so definitely won't break the bank and actually can be quite affordable, depending on what you get.

  7. #37
    The Diagram Dude pcb's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcb View Post

    I've been waiting three weeks now for my damn axle nuts from RockAuto.
    In fairness, I did go with the cheapest shipping option and RockAuto is a very well organized website.

    You are way more inclined to get the right parts.

    PS. Coils for our car can be a real source of problems. They can be bad right out of the box and fail intermittently and can be hard to diagnose.

    It's the only part I might go with OEM or at least get the Hitachi version.

    If you get your codes cleared with a new MAF but the misfire returns start with new quality coils.
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  8. #38
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    protege5

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    I didn't read real carefully, but here's my take.

    Clean the MAF. You can get a can of MAF cleaner or just use carb cleaner. If they're dirty (and frequently are) cleaning the dirt off the element can help that. If cleaning it helps, keep running it and replace it if the MIL returns with a MAF code after a while. Cleaning is a good diagnostic aid, however for dirty maf problems. IF you had a better scan tool that shows live data there's other tests that help to narrow down a MAF issue but it doesn't sound like your reader is capable.

    I would also recommend double checking the timing marks. Did you roll the engine over by hand after you released the tensioner? These motors are kind of a pain in the ass to set the timing belt up. It usually took me a couple tries before I rolled it over by hand and had all 3 timing marks line up correctly after rotating the engine over a couple revolutions. If they're not dead on, it will still run, though will have some misfire issues because valve timing is a little off, and it won't run quite "right".

    While possible, I find it unlikely that the ignition coils failed at the exact same time as the timing belt. quite the coincidence...

    I would also do a compression test to make sure nothing did hit. These are listed as an interference engine by Mazda. I've had 2 timing belts break on my car over and no damage or issues, but it's possible still. Even with over 260,000 miles mine had between 200-210psi on all 4 cylinders when I sold it. If you have a cylinder that's low it's not going to idle right. Also as said, if battery is disconnected or low enough to reset your radio presets it may have reset the engine computer and take a while to relearn the idle.

    Also, carefully check to make sure you hooked your grounds back up near the motor mounts. funny things can happen when grounds are left loose...

  9. #39
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    First off, this motor appears to be NON interference and has never been rebuilt and I didn't hear anything hit anything, just it stopped running and the dash lights came on. Starts fine, sounds normal and a simple blip of the key get is going once warmed up acceleration is really good for 188K+ miles.

    Secondly, I did spray out the MAF, no change, only the P0102/103 for the MAF sensor and the P0300 codes remain. I had cleared out the codes, but the P0102/103 and the P0300 came right back, the rest, the P0340, cam shaft sensor, P0304, cyl 4 misfire and the P0401, EGR have not returned.

    So it's looking like the MAF is out of spec and perhaps confusing the ECM. So I'll get one ordered up tonight and hopefully we'll get it in a day or two and we'll find out!

  10. #40
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    A brief update;

    I should have the MAF sensor ordered by now if not at some point today via Amazon because I have access to Prime (via a friend) so we can get it within a couple of days most likely as time is of the essence due to hoping to avoid having a damaged cat.

    So far, I've not run into the P0420, catalytic converter fault code but the O2 sensors show good on my Launch, but I still have the Evap and cat tests as incomplete for the inspection and maintenance testing mode of the scanner.

    I did buy a new gas cap since they don't cost much and a likely and cheap insurance for a possible evap leak yesterday. Still have the MAF and the P0300 codes for faulty MAF sensor and random misfires.

    Hopefully by the weekend to have this resolved. Stay tuned.

  11. #41
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    protege5

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    evap code is not going to cause any kind of driveability issues. IT's just an emissions thing and will do NOTHING but turn on the check engine light.

    Same with a cat code. The only time a cat causes a problem is if it gets completely clogged and the engine can't breathe. Otherwise it just turns on a light.

    Both will cause you to fail emissions inspection if your state has that, but won't affect how the car runs or drives.

  12. #42
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    I know, we do have emissions in this state, at least through the end of the year then the program goes away but my car is an odd year vehicle so I'm due for its last inspection however.

    Essentially odd year vehicles on odd years, even year models on even years is how they do the inspections.

    Oh, got word that I should have the MAF by Thursday so can install that evening or Friday morning (off work Fridays through mid Sept at work).

  13. #43
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    Update, the MAF came in today and it's been replaced, the P0102/103 codes, gone, still have the P0300, at least for a time, with the Launch, I've cleared the codes before I left and shortly after that first clear, got the P0300 (randome misfire), cleared it again and eventually the light came on, again the P0300 and all this time the car has idles rough, but accelerates fine and at one point, I believe I got all tests for evap complete so that's a good sign.

    Right now, after the third clear of codes (I think it is), the money light is remaining off, but sill idles like crap but runs mostly fine otherwise.

    I understand it may take several drive cycles before the ECM will calibrate so will monitor it closely over the next several days. So before anyone asks, as it was also mentioned earlier in this post that I did replace the plugs 2 years ago, the wires a few weeks ago, just after the car sporadically began misfiring on the 4th of July, but with no codes. I even got a fresh gas cap because the evap was not completing, just to be safe as it was original to the car when new. I also replaced the air filter as well recently so it's new.

    I'll try to see if there is an actual vacuum leak and will try to remove and spray the IAC valve as I came close to stripping out the JIS screws that hold the damn thing onto the throttle body. The car does not appear to smoke any either.

  14. #44
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    Since Friday, the MAF was installed and still have hot idle and as of yesterday, got a new code, P0172, rich condition with the P0300 and P0102 codes pending as of late yesterday.

    I did attempt to clean the throttle body but will need to actually pull that and clean the backside, it's indeed dirty, just that the butterfly as closed from the air side looked clean-ish and when I do, I'll remove the idle air control valve and clean that and will try seeing if I have an injector issue (dripping, but the last I looked, the plugs were dry so will remove and have another look-see) and go from there.

    The scanner has been an immense help here in helping me to track down the issue. It's sounding like either an air or fuel issue and will take it on the freeway to get it fully hot and see if the evap system completes.

  15. #45
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    Hello again, a quick update.

    As of a minute or two ago, I still have the P0300 code, idle is bad once hot, but I finally passed the evap leak test I think for the first time since I got the scanner.

    To do this, I drove the car roughly a 24 mile trip (12 miles both ways, give or take) and while it does still idle bad once warm, it did also seem to miss mildly a little bit at freeway speeds heading into Puyallup on the first leg of the trip but not on the way home.

    So that is a bit of progress, I think anyway.

    So the next course of action is pull the plugs and see what they look like now. then use the non flammable spray brakekleen to see if I can spot a vacuum leak anywhere and then try to remove the throttle body along with the IAC valve then remove that and get them both cleaned good and see what happens there. I will also once all that is done, add seafoam to the tank and see if that helps (namely to clean the injectors in case they are indeed a bit dirty.

    Anything else I should do next?

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