i-ACTIVE AWD not so Active

Subaru has AWD vehicals in the same price range.

I agree, would love to see a bunch more cars/SUV tested similarly. This test pretty much negates the type or brand of tire used and focuses the test on how power is directed to the wheels in no traction situation.

Thanks, I forgot about Subaru for some reason. It seems that the only AWD vehicles that can compare are the Subaru Impreza, the Subaru Crosstrek, and the VW Golf Sportwagen.

I found these articles that compare the AWD 3 and the Impreza. Both make great points, and in some cases are relatable to the Ascent/CX-9. In the end, it's going to come down to what you want out of your car. If you want excellent AWD capability (i.e. AWD meant for actual offroading) in the same price bracket, Subaru is the best, hands down. If AWD is more of a "nice to have", then Mazda's AWD is adequate, especially when you factor in the stuff that Mazda does better than Subaru.

https://motorillustrated.com/2019-mazda3-vs-2019-subaru-impreza-comparison/
https://www.autoguide.com/car-compa...preza-vs-mazda3-which-awd-hatchback-is-better

Personally, knowing what I plan to use my car for (and knowing that I would never intentionally get myself into a situation where I would only have traction in one rear wheel), the CX-9 is the better choice.
 
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I*ve avoided commenting on this thread given the passion all the posters clearly have in favor of having AWD for their vehicle and my belief that most people don*t need it. But, to provide a counterpoint for those unsure if they want to equip their CX-9 with AWD or not here goes- I*m sure beatings will follow.

Many others here have already discussed in detail the various differences in the 4WD/AWD systems available today. From a theoretical perspective having all four wheels able to propel the vehicle is an advantage. My observation has been that those who gravitate to driving an AWD/4WD car tend to develop a false sense of invulnerability and these are the folks I see stuck in the median or run off the road in ditches during severe weather. It doesn*t matter how many wheels drive the SUV you can*t fight physics and the sliding coefficient of friction. As others have remarked, the real benefit will likely come from better tires than anything else to improve traction, handling, and braking.

I base my opinion on personal experience. Growing up in New England where we have an abundance of winter weather my first car was a 1968 Camaro with a 327cui V8 and rear wheel drive. I had rear studded snow tires on the back (legal back then) and a 50 pound bag of sand in the trunk over each wheel well and still the car would spin with ease. It was very educational having this car; sure I got stuck a few times but I learned a lot about slowing down, anticipating braking and turns and watching out for my fellow drivers. Later on I was stationed in upstate New York where it snowed 184*/year and I drove a 1989 Nissan Maxima with FWD and all season radials; never got stuck in four winters.

For those hard core 4WD, off roaders I offer this; the first four years of my military service was in the U.S. Army as an armor crewman on the M60A1 main battle tank. I also got to drive M113/M577A1 fully tracked armored personnel carriers as well as 5-ton and 2 ton trucks with 4WD, the classic Jeeps with 4WD, and the much unloved 6WD Gamma Goat. Spending 3 years in Germany we had plenty of winter weather to drive about off road and lots of driving on paved and cobble stone streets. I have seen 52 ton tanks spin out on an icy road and go into a ditch when drivers got careless and every one of the above named vehicles get stuck as well. My point being, regardless of what the 4WD/AWD system might be it is no panacea for really severe conditions and unskilled driving.

Currently I live in Texas; we get a few ice storms and rare snowfall and heavy rains at times. I*m secure in my decision NOT to get AWD on my 2019 CX-9 GT. It*s not worth the extra expense and losing a couple of MPG to me. When my OEM Falkens wear out I*ll look to replace them with a better tire but other than that I*m good.
 
No doubt tires make a difference (I design tires for a living so I should know), but the fact that I get so much slip before power is routed to the rear, is I think the down fall of the CX9 system (which is independent of tires). think of it this way, if the tires have a ton of grip, no slip will occur, and no power sent to the rear. But , if the tire grip is down, or the road conditions are such that friction is low, power should transfer quickly and to a high degree to the rear, so slip is minimized. I just dont think this AWD system does this very well (in the dry in my case). I have yet to get a good read in the snow.
On snow, ice, or wet roads, I dont care how great your tires are, the friction is reduced, therefore, more power to more wheels can help.
Especially since this system is touted as "intelligent" Im just a little less impressed and was hoping for better. I have driving other FWD based AWD systems (haldex) and the transfer of power to the rear is within seconds, not after significant wheel spin at the front.

I tried the TC off and Sport on, and it does seem to help, especially since power isnt retarded by the TC, but the slip/squealing/spinning still occurs for way to long at the front.
Maybe I just need to test drive a FWD CX9 to convince myself the awd is doing something.
 
And, if we are saying the CX9 has better driving dynamics, power delivery is important. So while the CX9 can handle extremely well, they way the power is delivered through the AWD system to me is not considered part of its excellent driving dynamics.

In my comparisons, yes, I compared to RWD biased true AWD or 4WD systems, like others (Lexus), but I am comparing to my wifes most recent FWD based AWD system, in a 2014 Volvo XC90 (haldex system) and that system was hands down better. So a true apples to apples.

Am I gonna suggest to my wife we get rid of the CX9 because of this, no, I was just hoping for better.
 
Mazda's system is most like Honda's or Toyota's "real-time" all wheel drive systems in that it won't shift power to the rear unless the fronts slip first. That said, I've found Mazda's to be better than Honda's at least, based on my experience. However, it's not as good as the "full-time" systems found in the likes of Subaru's Symmetrical AWD or BMW's xDrive, both of which I've also spent a lot of time with.

I have a 2018 Pilot and a 2019 RX350 both with AWD. The AWD system on the Pilot is noticeably better than the Lexus. Stomp the throttle in the Pilot and there is no wheel slip and the thing launches hard and acceleration is linear - feels like the rear wheels have power immediately with no torque steer (this is true even with winter tires on the car!). Stomp the throttle in the RX and the front wheels immediately slip, traction control then kicks in cutting power, once traction is reestablished the power is distributed to the rear wheels in weird pulses/surges (according to the torque distribution monitor) and there is some torque steer. This of course straight-line performance. There is an even larger difference with cornering where the torque vectoring and the resulting yaw in the Pilot means it rotates much better with neutral corning compared to the RX which understeers significantly. I also drove a 2010 TL SH-AWD and it was the same - even with 305HP stomp the throttle and zero wheel spin - always seems like this system is in full-time AWD.

I believe SH-AWD is much better at the predictive part than the Toyota system with the latter requiring slip before distributing power rearward.
 
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What is wacky is that I have been trying to force torque steer and wheel slippage from my CX-9 again and am having trouble doing it. I know I noticed it when the car was new but now with 10K miles, I am having a harder time doing it.
 
Setting the crappy PTU aside... I haven't had the chance to get my AWD TB wheel slip on hard accel, and there is no noticeable torque steer.
 
I have a 2018 Pilot and a 2019 RX350 both with AWD. The AWD system on the Pilot is noticeably better than the Lexus. Stomp the throttle in the Pilot and there is no wheel slip and the thing launches hard and acceleration is linear - feels like the rear wheels have power immediately with no torque steer (this is true even with winter tires on the car!). Stomp the throttle in the RX and the front wheels immediately slip, traction control then kicks in cutting power, once traction is reestablished the power is distributed to the rear wheels in weird pulses/surges (according to the torque distribution monitor) and there is some torque steer. This of course straight-line performance. There is an even larger difference with cornering where the torque vectoring and the resulting yaw in the Pilot means it rotates much better with neutral corning compared to the RX which understeers significantly. I also drove a 2010 TL SH-AWD and it was the same - even with 305HP stomp the throttle and zero wheel spin - always seems like this system is in full-time AWD.

I believe SH-AWD is much better at the predictive part than the Toyota system with the latter requiring slip before distributing power rearward.

2016+ Honda Pilots are equipped with a more robust AWD system. Based on what I found online, the 2016+ Honda Pilot AWD models have a system that is mechanically identical to that of the SH-AWD systems found in the Acura MDX and, more recently, the RDX. I think I saw on one site that the default power split is 90% front/10% rear until slippage occurs but then as low as ~2.7% at the rear when cruising. That said, it could very well be different.

I was basing my experience with Honda's AWD systems on the non-SH-AWD RDX (I think 2013-2018 models) and a Honda CR-V. That said, I'm glad to see that Honda has equipped a better system on their flagship SUV.

I think a lot of us here can agree that Mazda's setup isn't perfect, but I'd also say it's not the worst. It's functional enough for everyday driving conditions and in some bad stuff and good tires will only make it better.
 
2016+ Honda Pilots are equipped with a more robust AWD system. Based on what I found online, the 2016+ Honda Pilot AWD models have a system that is mechanically identical to that of the SH-AWD systems found in the Acura MDX and, more recently, the RDX. I think I saw on one site that the default power split is 90% front/10% rear until slippage occurs but then as low as ~2.7% at the rear when cruising. That said, it could very well be different.

I was basing my experience with Honda's AWD systems on the non-SH-AWD RDX (I think 2013-2018 models) and a Honda CR-V. That said, I'm glad to see that Honda has equipped a better system on their flagship SUV.

I think a lot of us here can agree that Mazda's setup isn't perfect, but I'd also say it's not the worst. It's functional enough for everyday driving conditions and in some bad stuff and good tires will only make it better.

You are correct about the Pilot's AWD...I think the rate that it over-drives the rear outside wheel to create the yaw might be slightly less than the SH-AWD in Acuras but it's essentially the same. My point was front-biased (part-time) AWD can be setup to feel like it's FT AWD and not only PT in response to wheel slippage.
 
Coleman said that once you're above 60mph or so, the system sends a small amount (10%) of power to the rear as it helps stabilize the car.





 
It appears that the 2020 CX-9 got a better "off road" mode:


It doesn't get stuck now when a wheel loses traction completely.
 
If it's snowing or raining, power is automatically being sent to the rear, in varied amounts. It's only completely FWD based in dry conditions within a specified speed range.
 
I'm mainly responding to Corvette Boy. I recently purchased a 2020 CX-9 AWD to replace a 2008 CX-9 FWD.

I am also the original owner of an unmodified 3000GT VR-4 (AWD). I have never been able to spin the tires on this car--wet or dry. The car is heavy and the torque does not overpower the car.

I had torque steer and wheel spin on my 2008 CX-9 when launching. It has not occurred to me to test the 2020 CX-9 so I'll give it a try on one of the 6 days it rains in LA.
 

Yep, nice marketing video.

I really hope Mazda improved how the AWD system works in the newer models because I can tell you with 100% certainty, my 2017 Signature does not have such a "smart" AWD system that we see in the video. It sounds all great and cool on paper, but when the road gets really slippery, it still behaves like an FWD car with very little help from the rear tires. Good snow tires are a must!
It would be nice if the right adjustments were made and newer models are more capable.
 
Yep, nice marketing video.

I really hope Mazda improved how the AWD system works in the newer models because I can tell you with 100% certainty, my 2017 Signature does not have such a "smart" AWD system that we see in the video. It sounds all great and cool on paper, but when the road gets really slippery, it still behaves like an FWD car with very little help from the rear tires. Good snow tires are a must!
It would be nice if the right adjustments were made and newer models are more capable.

2019 is when the major change occurred.
 
2019 is when the major change occurred.

What changed in 2019?


Personally I find the AWD in my 2018 to be perfectly fine. I had no issues navigating the somewhat hilly areas of Calgary during the winter with the OEM Bridgestone Ecopia tires. I don't know if it does exactly what is being described in the video, but so far, the car hasn't given me any reason to question it. That's my experience, anyway.
 
Some things changed in 2018 as well. you can see the car question various diagonal test they did on 2017, 2018 and 2020 cx-9:

But none of these changes are due to the predictive nature of the AWD and more related to the traction control and how it uses the brake to go around the open differential issues (like most other AWD in that price range).

My experience with system in my 2018 cx-9 is similar to Sm1ke. in dry conditions it is very FWD biased, but when i took it through a foot of snow it was behaving as i would expect with the rear engaging early and was actually really good. (I have good snow tire so can’t comment on the ecopias)
 
Some things changed in 2018 as well. you can see the car question various diagonal test they did on 2017, 2018 and 2020 cx-9:

But none of these changes are due to the predictive nature of the AWD and more related to the traction control and how it uses the brake to go around the open differential issues (like most other AWD in that price range).

My experience with system in my 2018 cx-9 is similar to Sm1ke. in dry conditions it is very FWD biased, but when i took it through a foot of snow it was behaving as i would expect with the rear engaging early and was actually really good. (I have good snow tire so can’t comment on the ecopias)

You're right. Before the changes, they were sending power to the rear at all times, even in dry highway conditions. They've moved 98% of the power to the front in dry weather at "certain" speeds. Once you're above 55mph, it sends more to the rear for stabilization, even in dry weather. The torque split is constantly changing with i-activ AWD.

Depending on the temperature outside, angle the vehicle is on, how fast you turn the steering wheel, whether it is raining out etc. will all dictate where the power goes. It's a very dynamic AWD system. It shines in bad weather and is not meant for serious off-roading. No AWD system really is.
 
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