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Thread: 2019 Mazda CX-5 vs. 2019 Toyota RAV4 (Car&Driver)

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avoidin Deer View Post
    Interesting. Thanks for that.

    It's also interesting to see what that 8 speed must do for the RAV-4. At 0-60 MPH it's 0.3 seconds faster. At 88 MPH (the standing ) it's narrowed to 0.1 second faster (seems like the CX-5 is catching up). But from 88 MPH to 100 MPH the RAV-4 pulls way and it's a full 1.3 seconds faster.
    I think you looked at it wrong. The 2017 CX5 is faster 0-60 and quarter mile, but the RAV4 is faster to 100.

    Where the CX5 really destroys the RAV4 is in top gear 30-50 MPH and 50-70 MPH, which are stats that truly matter in normal driving, unlike 0-60.
    Of course the CX5 turbo truly embarrasses the RAV4 in these stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtex View Post
    I think you looked at it wrong. The 2017 CX5 is faster 0-60 and quarter mile, but the RAV4 is faster to 100.

    Where the CX5 really destroys the RAV4 is in top gear 30-50 MPH and 50-70 MPH, which are stats that truly matter in normal driving, unlike 0-60.
    Of course the CX5 turbo truly embarrasses the RAV4 in these stats.
    Whoops. You're right. I misread the numbers. The CX-5 outpaces the RAV-4 until you approach 90, then the RAV-4 really pulls away. And I agree, those dragstrip-driving figures are meaningless, except for those idiots who completely stop at a highway's entrance ramp before merging

    It makes one think that if some folks find the CX-5 to not have sufficient acceleration when passing at highway speeds, then they'd really have issues with the RAV-4.

  3. #63
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    Arrow 2019 Mazda CX-5 vs. 2019 Toyota RAV4 (Car&Driver)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigtex View Post
    I agree that this comparison between a 2019 RAV4 and a 2019 CX5 Signature is really not fair. The engine and interior puts the Reserve and Sig in a class above as the reviewers state.

    A better comparison would be to see how far Toyota has come against the 2017 Mazda CX5 GT released 2 years ago, which is the same as the 2019 CX5 GT. Plus, the horsepower is a little closer to equal, 203 for the Toyota and 187 for the Mazda.

    2019 Toyota RAV4 Adventure AWD VS 2017 Mazda CX5 Grand Touring FWD



    EPA FUEL ECONOMY
    Combined/city/highway
    RAV4 28/25/33 mpg
    CX5 27/24/31 mpg
    CX5 AWD 26/23/29 mpg

    So very similar specs, although the CX5 is still better in most. You do get a larger sunroof and a slight improvement in MPG with the RAV4, but initial MSRP is $3000 more, which would buy a lot of fuel.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
    I think your comparison is unfair too as you compare an AWD RAV4 to a FWD CX-5. I noticed you've edited the EPA MPG ratings as your original post showed their ratings were closer due to unfair comparison.

    It's interesting to see some figures are worse on 2019 CX-5 with 2.5T than 2017 CX-5 2.5L. This's something Mazda should do better. MPG on new RAV4 is not just slightly better, especially if you go for the hybrid. For long-term reliability consideration the RAV4 is on better side too with naturally asperated engine as well as direct and port dual fuel injection.

    Yeah, RAV4 definitely is more expensive than CX-5 with similar trim level. Especially in Texas there's a middleman, Gulf States Toyota, as a distributer who has always been jacking up Toyota's new-car price from about $700 to $1,500 with some useless accessories (pin stripes, rust-proofing, and/or "premium" floor mats for example). This's not happening in California I'm currently visiting and the Toyota's here are cheaper than in Texas which is a rarity that something is cheaper here than in Texas!

  4. #64
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    Yeah but you'll likely pay the difference in those outrageous California taxes.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    I think your comparison is unfair too as you compare an AWD RAV4 to a FWD CX-5. I noticed you've edited the EPA MPG ratings as your original post showed their ratings were closer due to unfair comparison.

    It's interesting to see some figures are worse on 2019 CX-5 with 2.5T than 2017 CX-5 2.5L. This's something Mazda should do better. MPG on new RAV4 is not just slightly better, especially if you go for the hybrid. For long-term reliability consideration the RAV4 is on better side too with naturally asperated engine as well as direct and port dual fuel injection.

    Yeah, RAV4 definitely is more expensive than CX-5 with similar trim level. Especially in Texas there's a middleman, Gulf States Toyota, as a distributer who has always been jacking up Toyota's new-car price from about $700 to $1,500 with some useless accessories (pin stripes, rust-proofing, and/or "premium" floor mats for example). This's not happening in California I'm currently visiting and the Toyota's here are cheaper than in Texas which is a rarity that something is cheaper here than in Texas!
    Well I was just comparing my 2017 CX5 FWD to the all new 2019 RAV4, and my 2017 FWD performs better or very close in every measurable category, including MPG, has a nicer, quieter interior, and the 2019 CX5 GT FWD costs thousands less than a comparably equipped 2019 RAV4. So that's a great option if MPG is a concern or "long term reliability". I added AWD for comparison as well, and it is still really not that much difference, 29 HWY vs 33 HWY is about $200 per year at 15,000 miles year and I consider that slightly better and I think most would accept that as a fair trade for a superior vehicle in almost every category.

    To sum it up, a loaded 2019 RAV4 is, at best, comparable to a loaded 2019 CX5 (non turbo) for $3000 more up front,and all the numbers show that. But looking closely at the numbers it's actually a worse overall vehicle that costs more.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddad View Post
    I'm looking to replace my 2014 CX5 Touring with about 125k on it now. The new Rav4 XSE has everything I want, pano sunroof, hybrid, more open and airy interior. Then I rented a Rav4 LE for a weekend and that all changed. While even the non-hybrid had great mileage I felt it was not up to the same standard as my girlfriends 2018 GT in refinement, not even close. Ride was odd, ate the small bumps quietly and completely, however tar strips and the repaired cracks so common in upstate NY were absolutely jolting. It also wallowed on the winding roads through the Adirondack mountains, so much so that my 22 yo daughter got car sick for the first time in her life. After about a 500 mile weekend we both felt that the Rav4 was a wonderful appliance, just not a vehicle I want to spend 40k 0n. I felt the ride, handling, and interior comfort were better on the 18 CX5 GT. Currently looking at a new Forester Touring and liked it on a short test ride, now I have to find one to rent for the weekend. Looking forward to whatever interior changes happen in the 2020 CX5. The Rav4 is off my list. Having owned four Mazda vehicles and finding them very reliable I have no qualms about buying another CX5. For me Mazda has been at least as reliable as the Honda's I have owned.
    This is consistent with every single review I have seen and read. The biggest knock on the RAV4 is that the engine sounds extremely unrefined. It's a shame--it's a nice car. I know the styling is take it or leave it, but I do really like it. Especially in the higher trim levels.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoDriver View Post
    Yeah but you'll likely pay the difference in those outrageous California taxes.
    Yep. Car sales tax is 7.5% in California, with additional local taxes up to 2.5% depending on where you live. Texas charges 6.25% flat everywhere with no additional local taxes on car purchase. Registration is a lot more in California, and it depends on the value of the vehicle. In Texas it charges a flat $76.25 doesn't matter the value of the car. My 2018 Toyota Yaris iA costs $259 for yearly registration in California, but it's be $76.25 in Texas. The insurance premium for the same car is doubled in California than in Texas too. A friend of mine here in California pays ~$500 yearly for registration on his 2017 Lexus RX!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    Yep. Car sales tax is 7.5% in California, with additional local taxes up to 2.5% depending on where you live. Texas charges 6.25% flat everywhere with no additional local taxes on car purchase. Registration is a lot more in California, and it depends on the value of the vehicle. In Texas it charges a flat $76.25 doesn't matter the value of the car. My 2018 Toyota Yaris iA costs $259 for yearly registration in California, but it's be $76.25 in Texas. The insurance premium for the same car is doubled in California than in Texas too. A friend of mine here in California pays ~$500 yearly for registration on his 2017 Lexus RX!
    Wow, that's nice for Texas. While my taxes were 2.5% (thereabouts, don't recall exactly) when I bought my CX-5, my registration that first year was something like $630. Even this year in 2019 I just got my renewal and it is still $187 which I believe it was last year, so I can only think some fee went up.

    Thank you democrats in 2006 for fucking us with your new registration fee structure. *grumble*

    So I drove a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee up until I bought this CX-5 in 2013. It used to cost me $10-$15 a year to register by 2005ish then suddenly in 2006 or 2007 it was closer to $100 and it was a 10 year old vehicle! I think even in 2013 it was still something like $75.

    I'm a bit pissy my 6 year old CX-5 is still almost $200.
    Last edited by ColoradoDriver; 05-25-2019 at 01:17 PM.
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  9. #69
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    Arrow 2019 Mazda CX-5 vs. 2019 Toyota RAV4 (Car&Driver)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigtex View Post
    Well I was just comparing my 2017 CX5 FWD to the all new 2019 RAV4, and my 2017 FWD performs better or very close in every measurable category, including MPG, has a nicer, quieter interior, and the 2019 CX5 GT FWD costs thousands less than a comparably equipped 2019 RAV4. So that's a great option if MPG is a concern or "long term reliability". I added AWD for comparison as well, and it is still really not that much difference, 29 HWY vs 33 HWY is about $200 per year at 15,000 miles year and I consider that slightly better and I think most would accept that as a fair trade for a superior vehicle in almost every category.

    To sum it up, a loaded 2019 RAV4 is, at best, comparable to a loaded 2019 CX5 (non turbo) for $3000 more up front,and all the numbers show that. But looking closely at the numbers it's actually a worse overall vehicle that costs more.
    FWD vehicle will have better acceleration and MPG than AWD, hence all the 0-60 or 30-50 comparisons you posted are unfair.

    I do agree getting a new RAV4 will be more expensive, especially in Texas. But most people don't really care the trim quality, but care about reliability, fuel efficiency, and space. For those who have those on their higher priority, they would be willing to pay more to get RAV4, me included. And that's why RAV4 out-sells CX-5 3 to 1 each year and every year.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    FWD vehicle will have better acceleration and MPG than AWD, hence all the 0-60 or 30-50 comparisons you posted are unfair.

    I do agree getting a new RAV4 will be more expensive, especially in Texas. But most people don't really care the trim quality, but care about reliability, fuel efficiency, and space. For those who have those on their higher priority, they would be willing to pay more to get RAV4, me included. And that's why RAV4 out-sells CX-5 3 to 1 each year and every year.
    You are correct, to make a fair comparison I changed all the specs to AWD only. It's funny how close they are in almost every measurable category except price.

    But in the end, if you want to spend the money on a RAV4 Limited, why not just get the CX5 Signature for almost the exact price?
    Fuel might cost another $250 per year (unless you use premium and then maybe $650 per year), but you would be driving a far superior vehicle that would only cost $1250-3250 more over 5 years and you could still have a conversation with passengers while cruising.

    "The RAV4's sound-level readings of 76 decibels at full throttle and 70 decibels at a 70-mph cruise both are 3 decibels louder than the CX-5's. Toyota's 2.5 is so obtrusive that one driver claimed he could feel the engine noise through the steering wheel. Another called the transmission's shift quality "chunky."

    As far as RAV4 selling in higher numbers than the CX5, I don't think most on this forum consider the buying habits of the general population a good measure of which vehicle to pick. If that were the case, maybe you are also looking at the Nissan Rogue?
    2019 Year-to-Date Sales Through April:

    Nissan Rogue 117,973
    Toyota RAV4 117,959
    Honda CRV 115,624
    Subaru Forester 55,438
    Jeep Compass 50,003
    Mazda CX5 47,086

    I think it just reaffirms what most of us think, that people are buying cars based on what used to be, and not what is.

    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019/05...ry-suv-ranked/
    Last edited by bigtex; 05-25-2019 at 02:19 PM.

  11. #71
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    Agreed on buying numbers. The Nissan Rogue has to be one of the biggest turds out there when it comes to CUVs yet there it is.

    Everyone things Honda is up there in reliability, yet tell that to the oil dilution folks having to change their oil every 1k miles.

    Sales numbers don't tell you much in terms of why people are buying what they do.

    I likewise suspect it has to do with brand perceptions more than anything else, and often those perceptions are way outdated. People buy Toyotas and Hondas because they are Toyotas and Hondas. People buy Nissans because they are heavily discounted and back in the day they made genuinely good cars.

    I think you read to much into that Yrwei.
    Last edited by ColoradoDriver; 05-25-2019 at 02:10 PM.
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  12. #72
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    If you want to see what drives buying habits, there's an abundance of commercials from which to choose. I think the brand of SUV you choose depends on whether you want to (a) confuse the parking valet, (b) stop your girlfriend from leaving, (c) pretend you're a hippy while enjoying the fruits of capitalism, or (d) drive your kid to hear the trees converse. I'm sure that price and brand recognition fall in there somewhere. But I bet it's rarely a rational choice beyond second-hand reputation (which is amazing given the $$$ involved).

    I've stated that I started out to buy a used CR-V based solely on broad availability/selection and its brand reputation among CUVs. The sticker shock of prices on low-mileage used cars caused me to expand my search. So I "just stopped by" the Mazda dealer who happened to be next to CarMax. THEN--since I expanded my search beyond a used CR-V--I started researching (which brought me to this and other forums).

    Mazda has never been on my radar screen when buying a car or truck. I come from a family of 8. None of us has ever owned an Asian car. We've had several Austin Healeys, a couple of MGs, a Vauxhall, a Simca, a Spider, some Nash Metropolitans, and various American standards and oddities, but no Asian cars (and therefore no Mazdas).

    The only people I've known who owned Mazdas were coworkers who purchased Miatas in the early days. That was 30 years ago. I think that volume generates volume, and the lack of volume inhibits gaining volume (if that makes sense), since there is no "I see them around all the time" recognition factor. I don't know enough about Mazda corporate to know if they're happy with their global market position. But a lot of manufacturers get sales they likely don't really earn merely because there are so many of them already on the road.
    Last edited by Avoidin Deer; 05-25-2019 at 03:32 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    2019 Toyota RAV4 just came out and my Toyota dealer only has very few of them, and you can find one at a car rental company?

    Ride comfort can be a personal preference and C&D article centainly doesn*t have such complaint to their test RAV4.
    Rented one from Hertz in Utica Ny. It is my personal experience with about a 500 mile weekend and you may well feel differently. However in my opinion the CX5 was far better overall than the Rav4.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avoidin Deer View Post
    If you want to see what drives buying habits, there's an abundance of commercials from which to choose. I think the brand of SUV you choose depends on whether you want to (a) confuse the parking valet, (b) stop your girlfriend from leaving, (c) pretend you're a hippy while enjoying the fruits of capitalism, or (d) drive your kid to hear the trees converse. I'm sure that price and brand recognition fall in there somewhere. But I bet it's rarely a rational choice beyond second-hand reputation (which is amazing given the $$$ involved).

    I've stated that I started out to buy a used CR-V based solely on broad availability/selection and its brand reputation among CUVs. The sticker shock of prices on low-mileage used cars caused me to expand my search. So I "just stopped by" the Mazda dealer who happened to be next to CarMax. THEN--since I expanded my search beyond a used CR-V--I started researching (which brought me to this and other forums).

    Mazda has never been on my radar screen when buying a car or truck. I come from a family of 8. None of us has ever owned an Asian car. We've had several Austin Healeys, a couple of MGs, a Vauxhall, a Simca, a Spider, some Nash Metropolitans, and various American standards and oddities, but no Asian cars (and therefore no Mazdas).

    The only people I've known who owned Mazdas were coworkers who purchased Miatas in the early days. That was 30 years ago. I think that volume generates volume, and the lack of volume inhibits gaining volume (if that makes sense), since there is no "I see them around all the time" recognition factor. I don't know enough about Mazda corporate to know if they're happy with their global market position. But a lot of manufacturers get sales they likely don't really earn merely because there are so many of them already on the road.
    Yep, I will readily admit that Mazda was totally not even on my radar due to...myou guessed it....outdated brand perceptions and seeing other vehicles on the road and assuming they must be good.

    Until I happened into a Mazda dealer after disappointing test drive, after disappointing test drive. CX-5 sold me immediately and here I am.

    My buddy on the other hand? He hates driving, views a car as little more than an appliance to get from point A to point B and owns a Kia Soul as a result. His criteria? Cheap.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    Yep. Car sales tax is 7.5% in California, with additional local taxes up to 2.5% depending on where you live. Texas charges 6.25% flat everywhere with no additional local taxes on car purchase. Registration is a lot more in California, and it depends on the value of the vehicle. In Texas it charges a flat $76.25 doesn't matter the value of the car. My 2018 Toyota Yaris iA costs $259 for yearly registration in California, but it's be $76.25 in Texas. The insurance premium for the same car is doubled in California than in Texas too. A friend of mine here in California pays ~$500 yearly for registration on his 2017 Lexus RX!
    I'll probably owe around $500/year on my CX5 GTR, here, as well. Texas has some STOOPID property taxes though, as my whole estate will run me less than $1K, there. Cali is just insane all around.

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