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Thread: Straight 6 skyactiv-x engine in development

  1. #31
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    I liked my VW I5 .... had a nice sound to it. But not the smoothest was engine per se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by murky View Post
    Coming from Honda/Acura I thought there was something wrong with my 2018 CX-5 2.5NA when I picked it up from the dealer. The salesman offered to fire up another engine to assure me that the noise (standing outside the vehicle) was normal for Mazda. Inside sounds find with the isolated cabin. If this is smooth, what is rough? All my other cars have been non-Mazda Japanese except for a German diesel which I expected to be rough, so maybe my perceptions are skewed.
    The high compression gives it a diesel-like sound. And if the engine was cold it runs in a fuel-rich mode for a moment to warm up to optimum temp - this is also somewhat noisy. Sure, you could add insulation, but this is just weight and at the cost of efficiency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cburrell View Post
    Kind of funny how Jalopnik uses the article to take a swipe at Toyota's lack of engine development for the Supra...but why were they surprised? Toyota has been doing this for years now: using partnerships to cheap out of developing their own stuff, and everyone knows that Toyota's response to the Supra dissenters who criticized them for using the BMW inline six, that it would cost to much in time and R&D was a cop out to save face. We all know the real reason Toyota didn't develop their own engine for the Supra: they cheaper out, they are the largest auto maker in the world, they could have afford the R&D and time to create their own engine and absorbed most of the rising cost from it. Yet it was cheaper, easier, and much quicker to leech off of what BMW has already developed.
    Being the largest in the world also means they have lots of shareholders to answer to. If "leeching" is cheaper, so be it. Everyone else does it. I bet the Supra, even with its BMW drivetrain and infotainment, doesn't break even or barely does, on the development and cost of setting up an assembly line for it.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigo View Post
    The high compression gives it a diesel-like sound. And if the engine was cold it runs in a fuel-rich mode for a moment to warm up to optimum temp - this is also somewhat noisy. Sure, you could add insulation, but this is just weight and at the cost of efficiency.
    Thank you and others for the explanation.

    I probably do conflate noise and vibration, and it is distinctly louder on cold start-up. First impressions are powerful.

    I do appreciate that Mazda seems to make smart choices and good trade-offs for such things. They probably could have chosen a different trade-off to make it quieter during warm-up, but at the expense of what?

  5. #35
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    I doubt the 6 would sound quieter per se. And I believe the Skyactiv X itself sounds kind of diesel like due to the high compression ( spark controlled) ignition. Ergo itíll probably sound like a diesel I6.

  6. #36
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    So what types of products would you guys like to see from a inline 6 powered, RWD/AWD, longitudinal engine layout?

    Most obvious type of product is some sort of sedan like their Vision Coupe concept.
    https://insidemazda.mazdausa.com/veh.../vision-coupe/

    But I don't think that would be a wise move...like what Genesis did with releasing sedans first before their SUV counterparts. SUVs are the trend and that's what I'd imagine would be the wisest financial move. Unless another game plan would be to use this platform to create some sort of halo car/sedan to inspire the rest of the lineup for the future.

    I would think this platform would be a great start to a next gen CX9. The switch would be similar to what Ford/Lincoln has done with the Explorer/Aviator by going to a longitudinal/RWD layout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by murky View Post
    Thank you and others for the explanation.

    I probably do conflate noise and vibration, and it is distinctly louder on cold start-up. First impressions are powerful.

    I do appreciate that Mazda seems to make smart choices and good trade-offs for such things. They probably could have chosen a different trade-off to make it quieter during warm-up, but at the expense of what?
    The issue is emissions. The catalytic converter doesn't do its job until it gets pretty hot, but skyactiv engines use an unusually long exhaust header as part of their efficiency improvements. So on cold starts, exhaust gases cool down (relatively) before they get to the cat. To combat this it runs in a mode that burns extra hot and a bit noisy. Goes away after a few seconds.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigo View Post
    Being the largest in the world also means they have lots of shareholders to answer to. If "leeching" is cheaper, so be it. Everyone else does it. I bet the Supra, even with its BMW drivetrain and infotainment, doesn't break even or barely does, on the development and cost of setting up an assembly line for it.
    People can make whatever excuses they want for Toyota cheaping out on the Supra, but that was the point of the article in regards to Toyota: if a small car company like Mazda can R&D a new inline 6 from the ground up, there is no excuse why the world's largest auto company couldn't R&D their own engine, except for laziness and taking the cheap and easy way out.

  9. #39
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    I certainly hope this suv craze ends soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jthj View Post
    I certainly hope this suv craze ends soon.
    I donít see it happening. Entry and egress are becoming major factors, coupled with elevated seating position = death knell to cars.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jthj View Post
    I certainly hope this suv craze ends soon.
    Better start walking...

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jthj View Post
    I certainly hope this suv craze ends soon.
    Don't see that happening.

    Hell, I know too many people that don't feel safe driving on the road in sedans because of larger SUVs and CUVs which are far more prevalent hitting them.
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  13. #43
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    VW has the atlas and even Kia has a large SUV now too. Mazda is trending that way I guess.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jthj View Post
    I certainly hope this suv craze ends soon.
    I'm turning 65 soon. All of us Baby Boomers want vehicles that (a) are safe, and (b) are high enough off the ground to get in to/out of easily without us making unseemly noises. Every person I know who is my age has either an SUV or a pickup truck. It's the modern version of us all driving Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs.

    Many of us have the money to spend. Fuel efficiency is nice but not necessary at this stage of our [retired/non-commuting] lives. We are already sold on the style. It's only a matter of which model we're going to buy. I don't know why SUV manufacturers don't specifically market to us, rather than telling younger people that they will suddenly go camping and stargazing and "listening to the trees talk to each other" if they buy that specific model.

    Maybe they don't want the younger crowd thinking "this is an old person's car." But I think a peek at SUV owner demographics might be eye-opening.

    Dominos had "Avoid the Noid"
    Maybe Mazda needs to roll out "Shunt the Grunt." Or "Please the Geeze."
    Last edited by Avoidin Deer; 05-15-2019 at 12:46 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigo View Post
    Being the largest in the world also means they have lots of shareholders to answer to. If "leeching" is cheaper, so be it. Everyone else does it. I bet the Supra, even with its BMW drivetrain and infotainment, doesn't break even or barely does, on the development and cost of setting up an assembly line for it.
    Personally, I would rather buy a car with proven components in it than be on the "Bleeding Edge." I don't now why people would be against implementing existing engines or transmissions...as long as the manufacturer is not stealing the technology without paying appropriate licensing fees. I think the inline 5 on my GMC Canyon is borrowed from Audi...that's a good thing.

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