2017~2024 Audio Upgrades and CX-5 2018 (non-Bose) Door Damping

Stegeocan

Member
:
CX5 2.0 GLS
The posts in this forum helped me a great deal when upgrading the audio in my 2018 CX-5 (non-Bose) so I thought I'd return the favour and write about some of the issues I encountered which I couldn't find much information on. Hopefully my experiences will be of use to someone else.

I'll try not to repeat too much of what has already been well stated and just focus on those areas where I couldn't find all the information on that I needed.

Firstly, as soon as I took my CX-5 home, I realised the audio was appalling. I was used to the stock unit in an F30 and the CX-5 just sounded terrible.

So, after a lot of research on these forums, I ordered some speaker adapter brackets (didn*t have the time or equipment to make my own) and some Hertz DSK 165.3 components.

Installing these was simple as the passive crossovers that come with the DSK are just high pass filters for the tweeters, and a full range signal goes to the mid-woofer. Hence everything can be replaced directly without any extra wiring (the crossovers can be stuffed in the A-pillars and only connected to the tweeters).

At this stage the audio was clearly better but lacked bass, so I bought a Kenwood KSC-SW11 under-seat subwoofer. I wired this to the speaker wires in the A-pillars, just before the high pass filter, and the power came direct from the fuse box (just 10A so no need to go to the battery).

This made an incredible difference and I was very happy with the results but noticed that there was still a massive peak in volume at around 150Hz and almost nothing at the frequencies just above and below that. Certain songs I was hearing often would have one very loud bass note in a melody, with other bass notes in the same melody almost inaudible. That really bugged me.

I decided that I needed an equalizer and decided on a DSP/amp combination as I was keen to go active.

I got the Sony XM-GS6DSP 6 channel amp/DSP and as I had 2 extra channels I also bought a shallow mount Pioneer TS-SWX3002 sub-woofer and removed the under-seat sub. This sub is unobtrusive and when lying flat you can pile stuff on top so it doesn*t affect boot space too much.

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It took quite a lot of time to tune the DSP to my liking, but I got it sounding very nice eventually.

One thing that I wasn't expecting though, was that even with the DSP time alignment turned off, it was not possible to get a decent sound with the rear speakers turned up (they are still connected directly to the stock amp). I put this down to a small inherent delay in the amp/DSP which causes an echoey sound. If I want to use the rears in future I could use the 2 extra channels on this amp and get a separate amp for the sub, but for now I am ok with the rears being permanently off. I don't believe I have read of anyone else having this problem, so I don't know if this particular amp/DSP has more of a delay than others. The EQ and time alignment are both off, so I guess the active crossover is the circuit introducing the (very minor but audible) delay.

Anyway, although everything sounded great there was still that awkward peaking that could not be controlled (this amp/DSP does not have a parametric equalizer so I couldn't EQ it like originally planned).

Testing with the doors open, I realised that the issue was purely with the acoustics of the car, so I decided to treat the doors with STP Black Gold (the best available alternative to Dynamat).

This is where I ran into a lack of information. A lot of cars seem to give easy access to the outer door shell for sound damping, but Mazda do not.

Having already removed the door panels, I was aware that there was another panel (the Front Door Module Panel) underneath. It made no sense to put sound damping on the plastic panel (even though I*ve seen some examples of that) so I needed to get that off.

Removing this inner panel is not easy and there are a lot of very awkward clips that need to be removed to free it from the cables. This took me forever on the first door, but when I did the second door, I unscrewed the panel before removing the wires attached to it. This allowed me to push out the clips from the back and was actually very easy.

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I was nervous about removing my window but had seen a video of a similar Mazda (possibly a Miata) and the window was taped in place (once unbolted) so that the inner panel could be removed. This didn't work for me, and I ended up having to remove the windows completely.

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With the inner panel and window removed, it was easy to add damping to the outer door shell (and some on the inner shell). I managed the first door without cutting up my hands but had less luck on the second and wish I*d have worn gloves.

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Putting the windows back proved tricky and although I thought I*d done it correctly, I later found out that my passenger side window was not properly slotted into the window guide and a couple of months later the window got partly stuck half way up. I believe part of the guide (on the rear-side of the window) was on the inside of the window and part of it on the outside. Through time, the point where the rubber crossed from one side to the other had moved and this had caused problems with the window. I had to remove the window again to get it to fit back nicely but there is now some minor cosmetic damage to the window guide/seal rubber.

The sound damping solved the issue with the peaking and made a big improvement to the sound in general so was well worth it though.

Having expanded so much on the original upgrade scope, I considered that it might be worth installing some higher end speakers than the Hertz DSK but I decided that any improvements would be marginal and disappointing compared to the earlier upgrades.

The only minor niggle I've experienced with this system is that when the iStop restarts the engine in the first few minutes of driving, the amp does occasionally cut out for 2 seconds. This has only happened 4 or 5 times so far and seems to be because of the voltage dropping below around 11.5 volts. It could be a calibration issue with iStop as it might be stopping the engine when the battery is a bit flatter than it thinks. The first time this happened was months after installing the amp and I*m sure a small capacitor would eliminate it entirely, though I don't think it is worth it for something that happens so rarely.

The radio is still the weakest link, but I mostly listen via USB/Bluetooth where it really shines.
 

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As an aside, while I had the driver's side door panel open, I also installed a module that opens and closes the door mirrors automatically (close on lock and open on ignition).

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Not sure which versions (if any) have this as stock, but not having that functionality was very annoying for me, living in the city.
 

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Sounds like you and me are 2 peas in a pod. Similar path.

I was happy with the car, not with the stereo. I swapped in Polk components into the front. Big difference in clarity.

I did an SW11 under the passenger seat. Like you, sometimes happy, sometimes not. Sometimes it's peak-y. Depends a lot on the content.

I'd like to eventually go the next step to a compact sub in the trunk, but have to wait it out some. The Kenwood sub my wife let me buy is still too new and I'm hesitant to give up any trunk space at all for the time being.

Nice to see I'm not the only one though :)
 
Thanks for posting as with each build I learn more with each build. Need to tackle the cx5 at some stage in a similar manner.
Rear speakers are typically an issue regardless of tech used as they trend to destroy the image in the front. I tend to run them 30db down compared to the fronts if at all. I also add about 30 cm of delay on passengers door to bring the bass forward and use ears on mono music when setting drivers door until the mono stage is centre car.

You have my respect in terms of taking the glass out to line the door skins, thanks for the write up.
 
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As an aside, while I had the driver's side door panel open, I also installed a module that opens and closes the door mirrors automatically (close on lock and open on ignition).


Not sure which versions (if any) have this as stock, but not having that functionality was very annoying for me, living in the city.

Did you have to replace the mirrors too?
 
Did you have to replace the mirrors too?

No, the mirrors were motorised already but I had to use a switch on the door to open/close them. My previous car did it automatically so I could never get in the habit of closing/opening them manually. And the mirrors are so big I kept bumping into them myself when leaving parking spaces. This is great and works well with the auto-lock
 
Thanks for posting as with each build I learn more with each build. Need to tackle the cx5 at some stage in a similar manner.
Rear speakers are typically an issue regardless of tech used as they trend to destroy the image in the front. I tend to run them 30db down compared to the fronts if at all. I also add about 30 cm of delay on passengers door to bring the bass forward and use ears on mono music when setting drivers door until the mono stage is centre car.

You have my respect in terms of taking the glass out to line the door skins, thanks for the write up.

Thanks, yes, I now have my rears on but at the lowest setting. When I listen carefully I can still hear that they play ahead of the main system but it is barely noticeable at that volume. I want to line the rear door skins, just to make the doors feel nicer, but it may take me a while to pluck up the courage again.

I can't understand why, but I don't actually like the time alignment and have it currently turned off. It is incredible how well it focuses the sound stage into the centre dash but there is something about it that feels unnatural to me. It definitely does what it is supposed to do though
 
Sounds like you and me are 2 peas in a pod. Similar path.

I was happy with the car, not with the stereo. I swapped in Polk components into the front. Big difference in clarity.

I did an SW11 under the passenger seat. Like you, sometimes happy, sometimes not. Sometimes it's peak-y. Depends a lot on the content.

I'd like to eventually go the next step to a compact sub in the trunk, but have to wait it out some. The Kenwood sub my wife let me buy is still too new and I'm hesitant to give up any trunk space at all for the time being.

Nice to see I'm not the only one though :)

Yeah, I was hesitant about using up trunk space and looked hard into fitting something into the spare tire well, but gave up in the end. The SW11 was great and made a bit difference but it would be hard to go back now.
 
Ok, so I pulled the trigger on some Hertz MP 165.3 speakers for my fronts, but when they arrived I discovered they were MP 165P.3 instead. These are slightly more powerful and efficient 3 ohm speakers, but my amp is only rated to 4 ohms for the front channels (45w RMS) so I was unsure whether to keep them or not. Initially I asked for an exchange, but as I have them now I did some research to see if these were likely to cause a problem or not and have decided (for now) to keep them.

Most likely no one will reply to this in time to save me from doing the wrong thing (I may install them as soon as this weekend if I get the chance), but appreciate any thoughts anyway.

My thought process was:

My amp is a six channel Sony XM-GS6DSP including four channels for the fronts (RMS 4x45 * minimum 4 ohm) that uses a separate PSU to the 2 sub channels. As 2 of the front channels are driving tweeters (and efficient tweeters at that) I don*t think there could ever be a PSU problem, but if driven hard the max output current for the mids may still exceed what the amp is capable of. Especially as 45w is relatively low power.

I did some calculations to see what the difference would be between the versions, comparing the 3 ohm 94db version (that I have) with the 4 ohm 93db version (that I ordered). Obvious both sensitivity and impedance are approximations so the following figures are indicative only. On closer inspection of the frequency response diagrams, it looks like the 4 ohm version is closer to 3.5, so the difference may be even less than indicated.

The amp is rated 45w RMS @ 4 ohm, so with a 4 ohm speaker at nominal impedance, 45w equates to 13.42v at 3.35A. I will therefore assume that 3.35A is the max current the amp is designed to continually output.

So, assuming it is ok to drive a 3 ohm speaker (and there are no other reasons not to that I have missed), as long as the output current doesn*t exceed 3.35A, I can*t see any problems (and if it does exceed this I would hope the protection circuitry steps in anyway). 3.35A equates to 10.06v at a nominal 3 ohm impedance, which makes 33.75w.

Now, taking the sensitivity and adding 3*log2(power) gives me 109.48DB @ 45w into 4ohms and 109.23DB @ 33.75w into 3 ohms.

EDIT: This is wrong as it assumes the sensitivity is db/w where as it is actually given as db/2.83v (1w for 8 ohms). Taking that into account the proper db is about 105, but still not much difference in it.

So when drawing the max continuous safe current, the more efficient 3ohm speakers will be almost exactly as loud as the 4ohm speakers, even though they are using 33.75w instead of 45w.

Of course, if I turn the amp up beyond 10v or 33.75w I would draw too much current and could cause a problem, but that is unlikely. To avoid that situation I could turn the gain down to minimise the maximum possible volume.

Hence my conclusion is that I should just keep the ones I have. The 3 ohm speakers are also more expensive that the 4 ohm too and in theory I may drive them with a different amp in future (especially if I blow this one!).

I*ll update here if I install these and/or if I kill my amp.
 
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Did you upgrade the dash speakers?
I have, with Polks and after adding amps and new speakers(Focal Flax components(PS165FX) at front, Infinity components in the back) I blew one of the amps, because of those 3.5" speakers, most likely were bringing down the resistance, or they could not handle the power.
The Infinity speakers( Infinity PR6500CS Primus) were 3 Ohms as well. I have contacted them about it, and they said that they should work fine. These are some good speakers for the price.
There is a way to install a sub in the trunk, without compromising much the rear space. 2" is higher the floor.
It is an ugly setup, but it works very well. I have placed a 10" shallow JL Audio sub in my spare wheel, after sealing the holes in it, with a 6" rubber gasket and a 6" aluminum "washer". I have used a regular bolt, to bolt it to the floor(also placed a wrench in the trunk, just in case if I need to use the spare). Placed a 3/4" MDF on top of the tire and used ratcheting straps to seal it against the tire. If I had to do it again, I would go with something even thicker, because after a few years, the MDF starts to bind. I will have to flip it over.
 
Ah, yes, I*m pretty sure I saw your post on your spare tire well sub. Sounds like a great idea and wish I was up to it, but that is too involved for me. One reason for wanting to changing the mids was to get some with more bass extension, should I need to take out the sub temporarily. Normally they*ll be cut off at about 80Hz, but it*s nice to have the potential there for when the sub is not available.

My variant of the CX-5 doesn*t have dash speakers. Just the tweeters in the A pillars, which I have changed. How were your dash speakers connected? To a separate amp channel or in parallel with other speakers? I*ve never really understood how to use a centre channel and it sounds like a bit of a headache I*m glad I don*t have.

Are you using your 3 ohm Infinity speakers with an amp only rated for 4 ohms? If so, what amp are you using? Your speakers are much higher end than mine so I expect you have something better than my Sony ��.

Your Infinity Primus are component speakers, so did you just mount the mids in the rear doors, or also mount the tweeters somewhere? I*d assume that for the rears you don*t want the tweeters do you?

That has made me think actually, that at some point I may add a low pass filter to my rears. At the moment they get a full signal but if I cut out the highs it should allow me to turn them up more without ruining the image so much. One to think about anyway*
 
I installed the 3 ohm speakers over the weekend and everything has been fine so far, as expected. They sound great and the amp barely gets warm. I think having it under my seat with constant A/C blowing at it helps there too.

I did notice though that the volume with these 94db speakers is no higher than my old DSK 165.3 speakers that were rated at 92 db. Curious about that I looked more carefully at the frequency response curve and noticed that Hertz have quoted the peak sensitivity and not the average. It looks to me like the only frequency it hits 94db at is 3.5kHz, which also happens to be the crossover frequency. At 1kHz it is closer to 89db.

That surprised me so I had a look at the Focal*s you mentioned and they claim a sensitivity of 91.3db. From the frequency response chart they also peak at about 3.5kHz (but all the way up to 97db!). The claimed sensitivity here appears to be the average, which makes much more sense. Overall the response if flatter too, though this is hard to compare as the Hertz diagram shows 45 degrees off axis and the Focal one shows 30 degrees.

The Focals appears to drop down close to 3 ohms and also stays low for more of the range, so that also support the theory that there is no problem with the impedance.

Hertz Mille Pro MP165P.3:
Hertz165p3 frequency response.png

Focal PS 165 FX:
FocalPS165FX.png

As well as the sensitivity, Hertz also claim these speakers have a range starting at 45Hz, whereas the Focals state a range from 55Hz. I*m guessing that Focal calculate this as 9db below the sensitivity, but for the Hertz, 45Hz is a full 12db below the claimed sensitivity. In fact at 40-45Hz both speakers have the same sensitivity but for the Focals this is much closer to the claimed sensitivity.

I*m happy with the speakers but suddenly unhappy with the Hertz*s misrepresentation of the specifications and they lose a lot of respect for that.

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This time I took the plug from the original speakers. Dremeled it off and glued it to the bracket. In theory I should be able to glue it back when I sell the car.

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Just one annoying hiccup. I had already partly broken one of the fastening clips and it fully broke this time. Gluing proved impossible so I have taped it on for now and everything seems secure. I want to find a replacement but this part seems impossible to find and doesn*t appear to have been used on the previous CX-5. Any suggestions on where I can find the part number?

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I wouldn't get too hung up on low end performance of these speakers and looking at the curve. I think with the modest power of Sony amp you'd be better off running these above 80 hz and let the sub fill in the lower registers. Otherwise chasing good Midbass say down to 50hz from a 6.5 you'd probably want to run 100 rms plus and a high excursion mid bass 6.5 like a SI TM65 (my likely choice )

Experiment a bit with the Sony , but I'd suspect you'll quickly run out of power if running the Midbass speakers too low.
 
I wouldn't get too hung up on low end performance of these speakers and looking at the curve. I think with the modest power of Sony amp you'd be better off running these above 80 hz and let the sub fill in the lower registers. Otherwise chasing good Midbass say down to 50hz from a 6.5 you'd probably want to run 100 rms plus and a high excursion mid bass 6.5 like a SI TM65 (my likely choice )

Experiment a bit with the Sony , but I'd suspect you'll quickly run out of power if running the Midbass speakers too low.

Thanks, yes, I think you're right. Volume and quality is good with them cut off at 80Hz, but I definitely don't have enough power to boost the bass to fill in for the sub. This is a good learning experience for me as I thought quoted frequency ranges were +/- 3db and sensitivities were averages over the range (or at 1kHz). I guess I should have known that was too good to be true.

Anyway, everything sounds great at the moment (with the sub), so I'll just enjoy this setup until space becomes an issue, and then think again.
 
The dash speakers, I believe they are wired in parallel with the door speakers(factory wiring).
I'm not using any fancy amplifiers, just some Polk Audios. PA660.4(4 channel) and PA880(sub).
I have picked these up from Ebay, as broken and I have repaired them(~$40/each).
The Infinity's were in all my four doors, but I have upgraded to Focals at the front door and I have just kept the rears as is.
When I have got them(Christmas time deal), it was a very good deal, buy one get the second set free. I could not refuse that.
I have the rear tweeters, in front of the window switch trim.
The front tweeters are on the little triangular plastic trim, that is inside by the rear view mirror. I'm using the cone shaped housing.
I have them setup, at 80HZ so the sub(120HZ) can take over from there.
 
Those amps look nice, I'm sure your setup sounds great. I'm intrigued by the dash speakers connected in parallel to the front speakers. Presumably you have very little control over their relative output and it must be tricky to get the EQ right. How does the sound compare with them disconnected?

As I have a spare set of Hertz woofers that were previously in the front, I will install those in the back soon and see what it sounds like. I won't add any tweeters and they should roll off naturally at about 4kHz. Not sure if it will sound any good, but no harm in trying it out. When I do that I'll also add some damping on any accessible metal. I've decided the rears are not worth the trouble I went to with the fronts (removing glass etc.), so I'll just stick my hands in the access holes and dampen whatever I can reach.
 
Just one annoying hiccup. I had already partly broken one of the fastening clips and it fully broke this time. Gluing proved impossible so I have taped it on for now and everything seems secure. I want to find a replacement but this part seems impossible to find and doesn*t appear to have been used on the previous CX-5. Any suggestions on where I can find the part number?

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Go to any panel beater in your area and ask them for one clip. Theyll have it
 
I have now replaced the rear speakers too and dampened the rear doors.

The rear doors are actually much easier to work with and there is a plastic access panel that can be removed, giving easy access to most of the outer skin. The only bits you can't reach from there, you can reach from the speaker opening.

I used smaller pieces and it is less tidy than it would have been if the door panel was removed, but it was nice not having to remove the windows and I was able to cover the entire outer skin without any problems.

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I didn't take any nice photos as I was against the clock, but overall I was happy with the results. The doors sound much less cheap now, though they still don't close without a bit of extra force. I think they need a considerable amount of extra weight adding to make them close properly - more than can be added with dampening materials. It's a bit of an annoyance as our other car is much higher quality and I often end up embarrassed after loudly slamming the doors on that car.

Sound-wise there is definitely an improvement and I've been trying various settings to get the right fill without disturbing the stage too much. There are no filters on these speakers but they seem to naturally roll off at a lower frequency than the original speakers (the passive crossover that comes with these Hertz components is actually only a high pass filter for the tweeter and it passes a full signal to the woofers).

I couldn't see anywhere in my rear doors to fit tweeters, so would need to go with coaxials if I wanted full range in the back, but I'm fairly sure I don't want that and am happy with what I have now.
 
Go to any panel beater in your area and ask them for one clip. They*ll have it

Cheers, will do that when I next need to visit one. For the time being the door is holding solidly but I imagine the next time it is opened it won't be so easy to close up.
 
They rarely break. Pretty good clips compared to other manufacturers. What did you use as a damper on your doors?
 
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