Should Mazda consider a 4 or 5 seater CX-9?

Dr. Awkward

Member
:
2017 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E
Before I bought the Honda PU, I test drove a CX 9.
The driveability of the turbo impressed me as did the interior
except for the crowded seating. Not having seat height adjustment when I test drove
was a concern. Glad that's changed but interior felt so close to my CX 5 I could not see
getting one. Been enjoying the Ridgeline for two years now.

Wife had been commuting for years in a Sonata Hybrid.
Read about the new Santa Fe and with a $50 test drive gift card offer as an additional incentive scheduled a test drive..
I rode in back of a the SF on the test drive, sat in the back and front of a Forrester the same day.
Knew we were not going to go with any Subie per CVTs Big difference in space.

Closed the deal before taxes at $32,000 from a $36,750 msrp for an Ultimate FWD, 2.4 L.
Love the space in this two row mid-size SUV, controls are ez to master, every option we needed
and then some. Two months and still very pleased.

So why this thread?
Because I think Mazda should consider a two row version of the 9.
I would've absolutely shopped one of those.
Honda is serving up a new Passport being marketed as an off road adventure vehicle with two rows.
Currently Honda is holding line at msrp and top trims creep into the mid-forties.
New 2 row Blazer also out soon. Ford Edge now has a SVT, $52,000 to seat 5.

Latest issue of Consumer Reports features good choices for different lifestyles.
For active families they recommended the 3 row Highlander.
Teen driver = Mazda 3 which was our choice back in 2014.
For savvy seniors interested in comfort on longer road trips, fitment of grand kids' carseats, and ready for any Costco run, the mid-size, two row Santa Fe is a top choice.
 
Interesting observations. I agree that Mazda should offer the CX-9 without the 3rd row. We are couple with no kids and will never use it. I read somewhere that they can be removed and Mazda has some type of filler for the empty space. I'd like to know how much weight that saves.

We traded in our 2016 CX-5 GT because we wanted a larger more refined highway experience as we do a cross-country trip and back every winter. We liked the CX-5 a lot and it was perfectly reliable after 4 years and 45k miles and while the seating and driving position are similar the rest is very different. Biggest difference is the quietness of the whole experience. I briefly looked at the new Sante Fe and really liked it but had a hard time with the new front end styling with the headlights so low in the front. I would say it is a more utilitarian vehicle than the CX-9. The Mazda is more of a specialty vehicle and I can see where it would not suit as many families as some of the other entries.

I actually thought about the new Ridgeline as a replacement for the CX-5 but it is primarily my wife car and she put her foot down on that one. Funny that she considers it so much of a "truck" when so many do not. Great reviews on that "truck" and one of the best things they did was to keep that 6 speed auto in there. That thing has plenty of power and really rides and handles great. I'm not a big tech guy but that infotainment situation there is not great. A volume knob would be nice. Other than that it is probably the perfect vehicle if you never need to have more than 5 people in the car. It tow's 5000 lbs, gets decent full economy, rides like a car and you can throw a lawn mower in the back if you need to. It will be interesting to see what they do next with it..
 
Before I bought the Honda PU, I test drove a CX 9.
The driveability of the turbo impressed me as did the interior
except for the crowded seating. Not having seat height adjustment when I test drove
was a concern. Glad that's changed but interior felt so close to my CX 5 I could not see
getting one. Been enjoying the Ridgeline for two years now.

Wife had been commuting for years in a Sonata Hybrid.
Read about the new Santa Fe and with a $50 test drive gift card offer as an additional incentive scheduled a test drive..
I rode in back of a the SF on the test drive, sat in the back and front of a Forrester the same day.
Knew we were not going to go with any Subie per CVTs Big difference in space.

Closed the deal before taxes at $32,000 from a $36,750 msrp for an Ultimate FWD, 2.4 L.
Love the space in this two row mid-size SUV, controls are ez to master, every option we needed
and then some. Two months and still very pleased.

So why this thread?
Because I think Mazda should consider a two row version of the 9.
I would've absolutely shopped one of those.
Honda is serving up a new Passport being marketed as an off road adventure vehicle with two rows.
Currently Honda is holding line at msrp and top trims creep into the mid-forties.
New 2 row Blazer also out soon. Ford Edge now has a SVT, $52,000 to seat 5.

Latest issue of Consumer Reports features good choices for different lifestyles.
For active families they recommended the 3 row Highlander.
Teen driver = Mazda 3 which was our choice back in 2014.
For savvy seniors interested in comfort on longer road trips, fitment of grand kids' carseats, and ready for any Costco run, the mid-size, two row Santa Fe is a top choice.

Unless Mazda releases a trim level below Sport that is heavily decontented to get the MSRP as low as possible, similar to what Volvo does with the XC90, I don't really see the point. Most people will just leave the seats down if they don't need them.

Besides, there are rumors circulating that a new Mazda crossover is coming to the US that will slot between the cx-5 and cx-9. If this is true I don't see Mazda doing anything to blur the lines between the CX-9 and the rest of the lineup.
 
Unless Mazda releases a trim level below Sport that is heavily decontented to get the MSRP as low as possible, similar to what Volvo does with the XC90, I don't really see the point. Most people will just leave the seats down if they don't need them.

Besides, there are rumors circulating that a new Mazda crossover is coming to the US that will slot between the cx-5 and cx-9. If this is true I don't see Mazda doing anything to blur the lines between the CX-9 and the rest of the lineup.

I agree. It makes more sense to, say, resurrect the CX-7 name as a 2-row model between the CX-5 and CX-9. A 2-row version of the CX-9 would have A LOT of cargo room; probably more than the typical buyer in the market for a 2-row mid-sizer would want. The CX-9 is longer than most of its competitors.

To OP's point, that's what Hyundai does. The Santa Fe isn't a "2-row version". It's the new (renamed) Santa Fe Sport, in between the Tucson and the Santa Fe XL (to be replaced next year by the Palisade).

With the Blazer and the Passport, and the demand for SUVs, it does seem like there will be more mid-sized 2-row SUVs coming to market. It would make sense for Mazda to get in on the action.
 
I read somewhere that they can be removed and Mazda has some type of filler for the empty space. I'd like to know how much weight that saves.

I've googled that and can't find anything. If you ever remember where you read that, please post here! I would love to remove the third row seats; I just don't need them. Don't care about weight; I'd just like the space.
 
I've googled that and can't find anything. If you ever remember where you read that, please post here! I would love to remove the third row seats; I just don't need them. Don't care about weight; I'd just like the space.

What's the point, if you don't want to cut weight? If you are taking out the seats, and filling over the void that's left, then you have the same cargo area as with the seats folded down.
 
I'm 6', 220 lbs and our Santa Fe is much more comfy than the 9 I drove or the CX 5 I owned.
From a C & D review of the Santa Fe:
Inside there are roomy accommodations for five, with a spacious rear seat access via wide door openings. Up front, there's lots of elbow room, cabin stowage is plentiful, thin door pillars and door-mounted side mirrors aid visibility.

Consumer Reports and Car & Driver both mentioned that seating F and R is tight in the CX 9.
Going with four captain's chairs could enable Mazda to open up the cockpit and get that same roomy feeling the Hyundai has.

Jump in the rear seat of a 5 or a 9, then try the Santa Fe. You will experience the significant difference in room in the back of the Hyundai.
If you open the fabric shade, the sheer size of the glass roof may trick you into thinking you are in a much larger vehicle.
 
I*m real interested in that new Santa Fe!

I*m interested because of all the ADAS (Advanced Driver Assist Systems) that the current CX-9 doesn*t have * including Lane Keeping that steers for you keeping you in the center of the lane (opposed to Mazda's, that in the best case ping-pongs you from side to side - if it even works (which my 2018 CX-9's doesn't)
Also it*s parking assist that not only beeps when you*re about to back into something. but also stops you. And the blind-side that not only beeps when a car is in your blind side * but trys to prevent you from changing lanes.

All the newest SUVs are getting these advanced Driver Assist Systems * Mazda better offer them in 2020!
 
I*m real interested in that new Santa Fe!

I*m interested because of all the ADAS (Advanced Driver Assist Systems) that the current CX-9 doesn*t have * including Lane Keeping that steers for you keeping you in the center of the lane (opposed to Mazda's, that in the best case ping-pongs you from side to side - if it even works (which my 2018 CX-9's doesn't)
Also it*s parking assist that not only beeps when you*re about to back into something. but also stops you. And the blind-side that not only beeps when a car is in your blind side * but trys to prevent you from changing lanes.

All the newest SUVs are getting these advanced Driver Assist Systems * Mazda better offer them in 2020!

Mazda is on-the-way to that.

Some observations on LKA.
The Lane Keep Assist (LKA) depends on several cameras, etc. depending on brand, to function. Faded lane markings, rain, snow, fog, and time of day are most of the variables that will affect performance.

Been driving with the full suite of the HondaSense safety package for over two years and the LKA in the new Hyundai Santa Fe is way more aggressive.
After you change lanes a few times WITHOUT signaling, you will understand. IMO, this setting is good.
Honda warns by vibrating the wheel and offering resistance to a turn but it is much easier to complete the maneuver than in a Santa Fe which to me seems to fight harder for control.
Again, if you use turn signals there are no AI alerts or resistance.

So, thankfully using the turn signals disables LKA during maneuvers thus accomplishing two things: actively assisting driver to safely proceed and potentially increasing the use of mirrors, the original blind spot assist.
Most BSW also signals by warning lights, sounds, and again, using turn signals will cause the Santa Fe to audibly warn you if vehicles are in either blind spot.
It will not try to keep you in a lane.
I assume Mazda's LKA is very similar.
 
Fwd - awd?

You get get a front wheel drive CX 9 in all but the top trims.
You can get a front wheel drive Santa Fe in ALL trims.
If you get the lower trim levels of the Ridgeline you get front wheel drive, making it unique in
the PU group. I remain impressed with Honda's AWD system even with stock tires.

But having to get another AWD vehicle to get all the features we would want didn't fit our plan.
While AWD/4WD in our rural setting is important - during that Dec. dump we got 17'
of snow and we ski - we do not need 2 vehicles with it.

Lower trims of the CX 9 with FWD didn't have some of these features found on the ultimate trim Santa Fe:
wireless charging, 4 way lumbar support and a leg cushion extension on driver's seat, 8 way passenger seat, a heads up display, and a nifty wrap around rear view camera.
And I understand the Hyundai's ventilated seats will work great this summer.
The heat performance is as warm as I have experienced in any vehicle.
 
It is extremely frustrating to try and understand EXACTLY what vehicles have really good ADAS (Advanced Driver Assist Systems), and which ones do not.

WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT?

> Different manufactures have different names for the same technologies.

> The car salespeople (mostly) do not even know the differences. (Or if they do, they lie to the potential customer)

> The youtube car reviewers (even the best like Alex on Autos), never test ADAS, and even the car mags like Motor Trend never provide accurate tests of the vehicles ADAS. And even the Car Manuals are pretty much useless.

WHAT EXACTLY AM I LOOKING FOR?

I want ADAS like *Tesla Autopilot" or "Cadillac Super Cruise". (Or some models of BMW or Mercedes have). Specify I want a vehicle that (under the right conditions like clear lane markers) will steer itself. It will keep the car in the center of the lane, even around gentle curves.

My Santa Fe salesguy says YES, the 2019 Santa Fe has that. It is simply called
Lane Keeping Assist (LKA). Problem is that *everyone* now claims to have LKA (even Mazda), but most only actively take control as you start to drift over a lane marking.

In the 2019 Santa Fe Owner*s Manual it states that its LKA has 2 settings (Standard or Active). (Here are the exact words in the 2019 Santa Fe on-line manual)*

* Active LKA: If selected, the system controls the vehicle and provides a warning when the vehicle leaves the lane.

* Standard LKA: If selected, the system controls the vehicle and provides a warning when the vehicle leaves the lane.

Well DUH? If they both do the exact same thing, why have 2 settings?

My Santa Fe *salesguy* tells me that Standard is kind of LKA that only takes over as you depart the lane (Like Mazda*s), and Active takes over and actively steers the vehicle (keeping it the center of the lane), for up to 10 secs or so (when you*re driving in clearly marked lanes and going over 40mph).

So please, if you get a chance, help me understand exactly how Sanda fe*s LKA works with each different setting.
 
I want ADAS like *Tesla Autopilot" or "Cadillac Super Cruise". (Or some models of BMW or Mercedes have). Specify I want a vehicle that (under the right conditions like clear lane markers) will steer itself. It will keep the car in the center of the lane, even around gentle curves.
Well Toto, it looks like we've come a long way since I had my '65 four door Chevy Biscayne with the two speed slushbox...lol.
What ever happened to the days of actually driving a car and keeping it your own lane using your hands on the steering wheel?

BTW, I've spent a few winters in Sarasota, Siesta Key and Anna Maria Island, and it's one of my favourite spots in Florida.
We've actually been looking at possibly buying a place down there.
We had to stay home this winter, and it sucks, and we miss the place.
Hopefully the weather is good.
Cheers.
 
I guess when you get really old like me (and move to Florida), your priorities change!

I had a 56 Chevy, and a 59 Chevy with Tr-power and 4 on the floor - used to spend Sat nites dragging on Woodward Ave by 8 Mile road in Detroit!
 
I guess when you get really old like me (and move to Florida), your priorities change!

I had a 56 Chevy, and a 59 Chevy with Tr-power and 4 on the floor - used to spend Sat nites dragging on Woodward Ave by 8 Mile road in Detroit!

I'm partial to the '58's. For some reason that's my favourite Chevy out of the 50's.
A drop top Impala with the spare on the back of the trunk would be my ideal retirement gift. Oh to dream.
 
It is extremely frustrating to try and understand EXACTLY what vehicles have really good ADAS (Advanced Driver Assist Systems), and which ones do not.

WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT?

> Different manufactures have different names for the same technologies.

> The car salespeople (mostly) do not even know the differences. (Or if they do, they lie to the potential customer)

> The youtube car reviewers (even the best like Alex on Autos), never test ADAS, and even the car mags like Motor Trend never provide accurate tests of the vehicles ADAS. And even the Car Manuals are pretty much useless.

WHAT EXACTLY AM I LOOKING FOR?

I want ADAS like *Tesla Autopilot" or "Cadillac Super Cruise". (Or some models of BMW or Mercedes have). Specify I want a vehicle that (under the right conditions like clear lane markers) will steer itself. It will keep the car in the center of the lane, even around gentle curves.

My Santa Fe salesguy says YES, the 2019 Santa Fe has that. It is simply called
Lane Keeping Assist (LKA). Problem is that *everyone* now claims to have LKA (even Mazda), but most only actively take control as you start to drift over a lane marking.

In the 2019 Santa Fe Owner*s Manual it states that its LKA has 2 settings (Standard or Active). (Here are the exact words in the 2019 Santa Fe on-line manual)*


So please, if you get a chance, help me understand exactly how Sanda fe*s LKA works with each different setting.

Active setting.
If you change lanes without using a turn signal the car will aggressively try to keep you in your old lane but you can complete the move.
If you are not trying to turn and the road curves, it will to a point, steer you thru it. Many variables involved. Works best on interstates with good lane markings.
It is not an auto-pilot so sounds like a deal buster for you per your statement.
The crash avoidance & mitigation is rated superior by IIHS, LED headlights are great, overall it gets the top rating:

https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/hyundai/santa-fe-4-door-suv/2019

Hope this helps but I would advise a test drive to experience it for your self.
 
Last edited:
Blind Spot Detection

Have to give credit to Mazda for including Blind Spot Monitoring on most trims going back to 2014 when we bought a Mazda 3 Touring and CX 5 GT.
Why mention this?
Because BSM is one of the most used safety features (the rear view camera is #1) and comes on standard ALL CX 9s (and Hyundais) yet is currently
only available on top trims from Audi, BMW, Toyota, and Honda.

Honda offers the quirky Lanewatch on their mid trim models.
LaneWatch is a camera system that supplements side mirrors.
A camera is installed in the right mirror and pointed toward the vehicles blind spot.
It displays an image of that area on a 7-inch screen inside the vehicle.
LW not for me and apparently not for Honda much longer as it is not offered on the 2019 Accord.

True BSM is preferable to having to look away from mirrors, the original BSM system, to
a center console screen w/ LW.
Very limited as BSM features visual and auditory alerts for objects in blind spots.
LW doesn't.
Switching turn signal indicator with BSM systems will trigger alert if anything is there.
Both sides.
Lanewatch possibly useful in trailering or parking, mostly useless in real-world merging.
Also, LW just covers one side.
So basically useless IMO.
 
Thanks for your comments and the link!

(I know I will eventually have to test drive one but I want to put that off as long as possible because once the dealer copies your drivers license, they hound you to death for the next 6 months.)

I dont care about anything to do with changing lanes my Mazda already trys to steer me back into the lane if I cross it without signaling.

At speeds over about 40mph, I want to get into the middle lane on the freeway and let the vehicle drive me, with minimum steering input on my part (and of course with Radar Cruise also going). Many vehicles claim to do this, but with greatly varying results.

For example, the Wards Auto website says (about the 2019 Santa Fe) We tested the LKA and ACC on a 250-mile (402 km) road trip. The LKA kept the vehicle centered in the lane and combined with the ACC we were spoon fed tasty 30-second bits of autonomy.

(I dont believe that it will allow you up to 30 seconds of hands-off driving, but thats what they wrote who do you believe?)

Specifically Im trying to learn

How well does it steer the vehicle?
(Ideally it should steer better than the average driver can. It should not ping-pong from side to side of the lane, but smoothly stay (more or less) in the middle, even around most highway curves).

How long can it drive you completely hands off?
before it starts bitching and warns you to put your hands on the wheel? (In watching youtube videos of that 2019 Sanda Fe, it seems like you get about 10 seconds, or maybe a little more, but does it really allow you 30 seconds?
 
Steers well, will follow some longer radius turns, helps if alignment is dialed in & tires properly inflated, many variables to affect operation as you know.
Under optimum conditions, a clear night, clear lane markings, medium to light traffic, traveling in center lane of an Interstate/expressway,
in the Honda PU I recall making it into the mid-teens via a *one, one-thousand, two, one-thousand etc.* countdown before getting an alert.
The reflectivity of lane markings on clear roads also seems to enhance the operation of the systems.
We haven't driven the same route in the Hyundai but on Interstates around Greensboro (I 40, I 85, I 93) it tracks great.
Honda seems to have larger display graphics for LKA, FCW, & AEB.

You will get the 'steering required' prompt & audio alert way before you get near 30 seconds. Software.
However, if you need to remove a vest or raincoat and don't have a passenger, it is very helpful.
Biggest positive, again my opinion, are the alerts from LKA and ACC if you are driving long distances, driving at night, or after strenuous activities
like skiing, MTB'ng, etc.
But I have briefly messed with a friend by putting my hands in my lap and turning my head to the right while zipping down our local bypass.
Easily over 10 seconds.
 
This thread is almost ready to be cross-posted over on the Hyundai board under Santa Fe...

Back to the CX9 for a minute, it appears there are two broad categories of thought on all of the *smart* driving systems/sensors technology being added to new vehicles. I for one, DO NOT want these things to become a driverless system that fosters a false sense of security that the car can make decisions better than a skilled driver with his focus on the road. I like the lane assist just the way it is TYVM.

With nearly 5000 miles - a lot of that using the ACC - I find that for all of the capabilities of this system which are rather remarkable, there are too many real time circumstances that it is simply incapable of *understanding*. The most common issues arise in active traffic, and around lane change both by driver and others.

The system can ONLY monitor the single vehicle in the data field directly in front. As the driver, I am constantly looking at the two or three cars in front of me in my lane, those in front in other lanes, as well as behind in up to three mirrors. The human brain is capable of so much more than a battery of cameras and sensors because it actually makes descisions, and does not simply react to what is going on around it. In my opinion, and I do not mean to offend anyone, but looking to this new technology to actually assume the responsibility of controlling the vehicle is a fool*s errand.

I do have a pet peeve with the 9, and it is, (surprise surprise!) tech related. This is my first vehicle with BSM and I am constantly annoyed by the beeping. Why is a car three lengths behind, and in all three mirrors, still triggering the dang warning? I would like it much better if it truly monitored only a *spot* instead of the rear FOV.
 
Last edited:
Back