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Thread: Turbo: nobody home?

  1. #16
    Work in Progress sm1ke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadonoz View Post
    Read it again. I was asking people with direct knowledge, not the people without. I didn't say "or not". Looking for data, not uninformed opinions. That's why I phrased it just that way.
    I read it just fine the first time. Again, you asked if owners have experienced this issue. Either they have, or they haven't, but both responses are answers to the question you asked.

    If you only wanted those who have experienced the issue to comment, you should have asked "Turbo owners who have experienced this issue, what are your thoughts?"

    Regardless of semantics, your goal is clear now - "Looking for data, not uninformed opinions." I have no practical experience with this issue, so I'll bow out.

  2. #17
    Registered Member 7eregrine's Avatar

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    He's talking about a complete loss of power
    The rest of you are all ,"yea, each Dyno pull gets you a tiny bit less".. Slightly less. Not total loss of power. Pure bullshit in my experience. That's not a turbo thing.
    Geese really said this?

  3. #18
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    This could be one of two different things: 1) The engine de-tuning itself due to heat soak by pulling timing. This isn't a huge loss of power and doesn't constitute a safety issue. 2) A rare condition in turbo engines where prolonged exposure to very high humidity while running at a steady light load for a long time can induce a false misfire condition that throws the engine into a sort of limp mode. This *is* a huge loss of power and it feels like the engine has been caught completely flat foot and is dead. It also can be a real safety issue if it happens during 2-lane passing. I had this happen to me exactly once when I owned my Hyundai Veloster Turbo. After driving for hours in the rain at 100% humidity I needed to pass a car. After a moment of acceleration the engine just went dead and stuttered like it was running out of gas. It took about 10 seconds before it began to come back and pull again, and the ECU had pulled timing as much as it possibly could so there wasn't much power there still. My father's 3.5 EcoBoost F-150 also did this to him exactly one time under similar circumstances. It's rare but it's a thing.

  4. #19
    Underutilized Member shadonoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sm1ke View Post
    I read it just fine the first time. Again, you asked if owners have experienced this issue. Either they have, or they haven't, but both responses are answers to the question you asked.
    It is abnormal for it to act that way, so hopefully it would be a rare occurrence. I don't want to know who hasn't, ESPECIALLY people who have no experience with this engine. I want to know if anyone else has. That's why I deliberately didn't say "or not".

    Quote Originally Posted by sm1ke View Post
    If you only wanted those who have experienced the issue to comment, you should have asked "Turbo owners who have experienced this issue, what are your thoughts?"
    We all have different styles. Sorry if it was unclear to you. Seemed really clear to me. But that's why we're talking.

    Quote Originally Posted by sm1ke View Post
    Regardless of semantics, your goal is clear now - "Looking for data, not uninformed opinions." I have no practical experience with this issue, so I'll bow out.
    Glad we're on the same page now. And glad it hasn't happened to you.

    Sorry if I offended you, but keep in mind I was replying specifically to unob and his comment.

  5. #20
    Underutilized Member shadonoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eregrine View Post
    He's talking about a complete loss of power
    The rest of you are all ,"yea, each Dyno pull gets you a tiny bit less".. Slightly less. Not total loss of power. Pure bullshit in my experience. That's not a turbo thing.
    Geese really said this?
    Watch him for yourself.

    It's not a complete loss of power. The engine feels like it just reverts to normal aspiration. It still runs, but you don't get the acceleration you expect. At least that was what mine would do. And it didn't have anything to do with stress or repeated hot runs or anything like that. It would happen during normal driving when flooring it.

  6. #21
    Underutilized Member shadonoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatsPaw View Post
    This could be one of two different things: 1) The engine de-tuning itself due to heat soak by pulling timing. This isn't a huge loss of power and doesn't constitute a safety issue. 2) A rare condition in turbo engines where prolonged exposure to very high humidity while running at a steady light load for a long time can induce a false misfire condition that throws the engine into a sort of limp mode. This *is* a huge loss of power and it feels like the engine has been caught completely flat foot and is dead. It also can be a real safety issue if it happens during 2-lane passing. I had this happen to me exactly once when I owned my Hyundai Veloster Turbo. After driving for hours in the rain at 100% humidity I needed to pass a car. After a moment of acceleration the engine just went dead and stuttered like it was running out of gas. It took about 10 seconds before it began to come back and pull again, and the ECU had pulled timing as much as it possibly could so there wasn't much power there still. My father's 3.5 EcoBoost F-150 also did this to him exactly one time under similar circumstances. It's rare but it's a thing.
    My guess was usually that the waste gate was stuck open for some reason, that's what it would feel like. But it could have easily been a timing issue. Mine never went dead like yours. It was somewhere in between.

    The dealer would never tell me what they did to fix it, but they finally did after three tries, and getting the company's engineers involved. I do know that the next year [and every year after] that engine was seriously detuned from mine [first year of the Subaru Forester turbo, 2004]. C&D tested mine 0-60 at 5.3, but it was in the 7s every year after that.

    Thanks for your input.

  7. #22
    Registered Member 7eregrine's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadonoz View Post
    Watch him for yourself.

    It's not a complete loss of power. The engine feels like it just reverts to normal aspiration. It still runs, but you don't get the acceleration you expect. At least that was what mine would do. And it didn't have anything to do with stress or repeated hot runs or anything like that. It would happen during normal driving when flooring it.
    Still call bullshit. This would be a big deal and we'd have surely heard about it by now.
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  8. #23
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    So I have an actual CX-5 with the turbo. This is not my first turbo, but it's been awhile. My last was a 1995 Mitsu Eclipse GSX. That had turbo lag. That is non existent in the CX-5. I already answered that I have not noticed the power loss, but then again, we don't race the CX-5. The power has always been available when asked. The only time it feels sluggish at all, is when it up-shifts too soon. This is my only gripe at this point.

  9. #24
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    I suspect it was some tuning anomaly as it didnít sound like heat soak and itís also pretty cold weather when he tested. The humidity thing causes condensation in the inter cooler and I doubt that was it either.

  10. #25
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    probably needed to downshift the NA cx-5 will do the same thing if you leave it on D. sometimes it will shift to second when floored when it could have gone to first with 2000 rpm available (that's a big difference in performance vs the same speed in second). same holds true for 3rd and 4th gear too.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her View Post
    probably needed to downshift the NA cx-5 will do the same thing if you leave it on D. sometimes it will shift to second when floored when it could have gone to first with 2000 rpm available (that's a big difference in performance vs the same speed in second). same holds true for 3rd and 4th gear too.
    Yeah I have noticed this on occasion.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadonoz View Post
    Well good, then you've learned two new things today, unob:

    1- What he described is, indeed, a thing.

    2- Something can be a thing even if you haven't experienced or heard of it. Imagine that!

    I was asking if anyone else had experienced it, not if they hadn't, thanks.
    What you're saying is that the engine rpms are up, and that no boost is being generated, or less boost. Without a malfunction, how can what you are claiming possibly occur? Waste gate stuck open as you say, or a massive boost leak elsewhere. Again, I grew up with a street racing scene that HEAVILY favored turbos, and noone ever said "My turbo didn't work". There was everything from 9 second civic's trapping 140+ to S2000's pushing over 700whp to lazy little B18's with junk-yard installs for $500 turn-key engine and everything tuning off the FP regulator, but what there wasn't, were turbos that sometimes worked and sometimes didn't, unless something was "hard broke".

  13. #28
    Underutilized Member shadonoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
    What you're saying is that the engine rpms are up, and that no boost is being generated, or less boost. Without a malfunction, how can what you are claiming possibly occur? Waste gate stuck open as you say, or a massive boost leak elsewhere. Again, I grew up with a street racing scene that HEAVILY favored turbos, and noone ever said "My turbo didn't work". There was everything from 9 second civic's trapping 140+ to S2000's pushing over 700whp to lazy little B18's with junk-yard installs for $500 turn-key engine and everything tuning off the FP regulator, but what there wasn't, were turbos that sometimes worked and sometimes didn't, unless something was "hard broke".
    Now you're catching on! It's a malfunction: not functioning as designed.
    You think that because you've never heard of it, it can't happen?
    Wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadonoz View Post
    Now you're catching on! It's a malfunction: not functioning as designed.
    You think that because you've never heard of it, it can't happen?
    Wow.
    Yeah, it's rare AF, and noone but you seems to have experienced it so far per this forum. It's not "something that just sometimes happens" like missing a shift with a standard or having a gas-cap not seal and throw a code.

    Further, I never indicated that it could not ever happen, only that if it could, there was a definite "why" behind it. It's not just a "oh, sometimes..."
    Last edited by Unobtanium; 01-30-2019 at 01:47 AM.

  15. #30
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    I believe the 2.5T only has one turbo?
    When I had the cx-5 diesel that had 2, and lag or loss of response to the throttle was practically non existent, floor it in any gear with in reason and it would accelerate, however since I've owned The Tiguan with only one turbo I've noticed a definite (expected) difference below 2000rpm, not helped by the modern trend to run in a high gear for fuel saving.

    Using the sport mode makes a noticeable difference to throttle response and acceleration, I'm still running the car in with under 200 miles so haven't really used full throttle.
    Another thing I had last night was lack of response to the throttle cornering below 20mph, nothing happened, when I looked at the rev counter it was at 1K revs, but importantly the auto was in 3rd!

    I wonder if the OP has reported something similar, and the gearing and single turbo is part of the problem, I do think the trend for economy maps using high gears and low rpm is a factor.

    A remap would probably make a significant difference?

    I hope he doesn't get upset by me posting having had no experience of his particular engine.

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