Turbo: nobody home?

This is the guy who drove his previous Mazda like a grandma, as he admitted. Not worth a reply.

Re: dense air. Turbos prefer lower density. They don't have to work as hard.

https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/media/blog/do-turbochargers-perform-differently-seasonal-weather.

"As air temperature increases the density of the air, and the amount of oxygen it holds, decreases. This means that the turbocharger has to work harder, spin faster and compress more air to produce the same amount of boost it would at lower temperatures."

This information is only correct in abstraction. Yes, generally speaking colder and more dense air is beneficial to a turbocharger, but there are other factors in play besides that. In fact it's pretty likely that the turbo itself is not really a contributor to the power loss issue. My assertion is that it is retardation of ignition timing, and after seeing the reply from the Mazda rep it makes total sense that the air/fuel ratio is also a likely culprit. The engine is deliberating de-tuning itself under these conditions as a protective measure. Most modern cars do this to some extent, it seems Mazda is just more heavy-handed about it than most. They may very well have their reasons too.

Now that the temperatures are something resembling normal (only a little below freezing) my car is running normally again and making normal power. People seem to be suggesting there is a lot of hyperbole going on in this thread but I've always been clear with my own posts that this is happening to me because it has been extremely and unseasonably cold in my part of the country. I also have not exaggerated the power loss. Twice the car was incapable of achieving interstate speeds, even with the accelerator floored. That's suggested more than half of the available horsepower is missing going by power to weight ratios and how fast the car should be able to go with a given amount of HP.

I think what people reading this thread need to take away is that unless you live further north and are going to be bothered by the fact that your car will run like crap when it's crazy cold out there isn't really anything to be concerned about here. This problem has limited scope.
 
This is where your story points more to an isolated problem as opposed to a design issue. If it was widespread, there would be a much larger uproar than we are seeing here. I'm just outside of Boston and have made my trip up toward the city every weekday since getting my GTR on Feb 4th. It's been mighty cold here and quite a few of those mornings I made the trip in single digit temps. I haven't seen anything close to what you are reporting.

My suggestion would be to get it to the dealer for a look-see. Something isn't right with your car.

I also have not exaggerated the power loss. Twice the car was incapable of achieving interstate speeds, even with the accelerator floored. That's suggested more than half of the available horsepower is missing going by power to weight ratios and how fast the car should be able to go with a given amount of HP.
 
I think what people reading this thread need to take away is that unless you live further north and are going to be bothered by the fact that your car will run like crap when it's crazy cold out there isn't really anything to be concerned about here. This problem has limited scope.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet you're right that it's pulling timing. When it was happening in my old Forester, they eventually fixed it after flashing the ECU three times. They wouldn't tell me what they were changing, but it's likely it was timing. Service tickets never listed anything else than the flashing. And it would make sense because the problem felt like retarded timing, and because retarding timing is the easiest way to protect the engine. I always figured it was happening because it was the first year for that engine in that configuration, and I was running it almost always at higher elevations. Thus it had a bug or two.

But I strongly disagree that there isn't a problem. I wouldn't [didn't] accept it in my new car. This is more than heavy-handed tuning, this is extreme and irrational. Could be dangerous.

And I have no doubt Mazda can fix it.
 
This is where your story points more to an isolated problem as opposed to a design issue. If it was widespread, there would be a much larger uproar than we are seeing here. I'm just outside of Boston and have made my trip up toward the city every weekday since getting my GTR on Feb 4th. It's been mighty cold here and quite a few of those mornings I made the trip in single digit temps. I haven't seen anything close to what you are reporting.

My suggestion would be to get it to the dealer for a look-see. Something isn't right with your car.

You're right in that my case could be unique. I've said that myself as well. But other people with NA engines have experienced the car "going weak" when it gets very cold. It could be that I was just a little colder and experienced it more severely than they did. The problem is not an on/off switch, it gets progressively worse the colder it gets.
 
It has been below zero here for weeks now and this is the way my car has been running the entire time. There are days when the engine is so dead it isn't capable of getting up to 75mph on the interstate. I'm sure that sounds like an exaggeration. Sadly, it's not. At this point I consider it a safety issue to be honest. It's understandable that modern cars pull timing somewhat in certain circumstances, but it shouldn't have to be done this severely and I know of no other engine that does so this dramatically.

Between this, the torture seats and the worn out massage chair vibrations from the transmission mount I'm ready to fix the problem by not owning this car anymore.

What has your dealer done to assist? Did the tech say anything when you took them along for a drive to replicate the issue?

Have you taken it to the dealer to get the issue sorted out? Best to do it before the weather warms up and the "issue" disappears.
 
Has anyone tried to have a tech reproduce the issue? Or reproduce the issue with a tech onboard? I mean everyone with a 2019 CX-5 turbo should still have their bumper to bumper warranty. If it is really an issue, let the techs have at it.
 
Has anyone tried to have a tech reproduce the issue? Or reproduce the issue with a tech onboard? I mean everyone with a 2019 CX-5 turbo should still have their bumper to bumper warranty. If it is really an issue, let the techs have at it.

My thoughts exactly. Standard process is dealer diagnosis, then escalate to MNAO if unhappy with the result. Instead everyone is doing their own testing while throwing various theories out as possible explanations.
 
I don't believe there is anything wrong with my vehicle. By wrong I mean "diagnostically wrong" as in not operating as designed. I think the car *is* operating as designed, and that's why it bothers me. I could be wrong about that and acknowledge the possibility, but my gut says this is the way the ECU in my car works. I'm just not thrilled about it.
 
I don't believe there is anything wrong with my vehicle. By wrong I mean "diagnostically wrong" as in not operating as designed. I think the car *is* operating as designed, and that's why it bothers me. I could be wrong about that and acknowledge the possibility, but my gut says this is the way the ECU in my car works. I'm just not thrilled about it.

Well forget the dealer diagnostic and the testing a tech might perform to get you a resolution. If your gut is telling you it's normal, so be it.
 
Trust me...... If your car cannot reach highway speed, no matter how cold it is, there's a problem that the dealer needs to address.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with my vehicle. By wrong I mean "diagnostically wrong" as in not operating as designed. I think the car *is* operating as designed, and that's why it bothers me. I could be wrong about that and acknowledge the possibility, but my gut says this is the way the ECU in my car works. I'm just not thrilled about it.
 
Savage has updated me:

I was told it has to run 93. I ran almost 3 tanks of it. The issue only seemed to occur below 20F. It was not related to TCS or sport mode. The car would accelerate as if it were in limp mode. No boost, timing pulled. From a dead stop, or rolling start, same thing. Your video seemed to capture it. The issue went away as temps went up. This is not heat soak as many were alluding to. I have a Mazda that next week I'll ask they're engineers about it. But they're not going to tell me what's going on internally I can pretty much guarantee you that. It's probably some tuning Fail-Safe that the ECU kicks over to.
 
Savage has updated me:

His experience exactly mimics mine. Problem begins at 20F and progressively gets worse as the temp goes lower. Once you get above 20F it goes away. So whether the engine is turbo or NA we are building a lot of supporting evidence that the problem lives in the programming of the ECU.
 
This.

How is that at all considered normal?

I don't mean to say it's normal. I just mean it appears to be operating as it was designed to operate. Losing half your horsepower in very cold weather is neither normal nor acceptable. If we're lucky we might be able to convince Mazda to actually open an engineering case file on the subject and determine whether this aggressive self-protection behavior is really all that necessary. Maybe they can lay off of it a little bit without compromising what is obviously an effort to protect the engine on their part.
 
I don't mean to say it's normal. I just mean it appears to be operating as it was designed to operate. Losing half your horsepower in very cold weather is neither normal nor acceptable. If we're lucky we might be able to convince Mazda to actually open an engineering case file on the subject and determine whether this aggressive self-protection behavior is really all that necessary. Maybe they can lay off of it a little bit without compromising what is obviously an effort to protect the engine on their part.

CatsPaw, you seem to be the only NA driver who has reported this behavior. That indicates that your statement above cannot be correct.

This thread is about turbos losing power. You have a problem, and altho it could possibly be similar to the one that unob and bird are reporting, it's certainly different.
 
I don't mean to say it's normal. I just mean it appears to be operating as it was designed to operate. Losing half your horsepower in very cold weather is neither normal nor acceptable. If we're lucky we might be able to convince Mazda to actually open an engineering case file on the subject and determine whether this aggressive self-protection behavior is really all that necessary. Maybe they can lay off of it a little bit without compromising what is obviously an effort to protect the engine on their part.
If you have the NA engine, that is not at all normal or as designed. Get it checked out.
 
I don't mean to say it's normal. I just mean it appears to be operating as it was designed to operate. Losing half your horsepower in very cold weather is neither normal nor acceptable. If we're lucky we might be able to convince Mazda to actually open an engineering case file on the subject and determine whether this aggressive self-protection behavior is really all that necessary. Maybe they can lay off of it a little bit without compromising what is obviously an effort to protect the engine on their part.

What makes you think that your car is behaving the way that it was designed to behave? If it was by design, you wouldn't be the only one complaining. CX-5 owners probably make up the majority of users on this board. If there was an issue as extreme as yours, we would have heard more about it by now.

I doubt you'd be able to convince Mazda to do anything, based on your unwillingness to take it to a dealer and rely instead on your intuition and what you read on the internet.

Mazda listens to it's customers, but when it comes to mechanical/technical issues, they're going to action them based on what comes from their certified/master techs, not their customers. This is obviously because a Mazda tech usually has a better understanding of what's going on behind the scenes. So again, if you want Mazda to do something, take it to the dealer and have it diagnosed. If you're not happy with the diagnosis, escalate to MNAO. It'll get you a lot farther than your gut instinct.
 
I don't mean to say it's normal. I just mean it appears to be operating as it was designed to operate. Losing half your horsepower in very cold weather is neither normal nor acceptable. If we're lucky we might be able to convince Mazda to actually open an engineering case file on the subject and determine whether this aggressive self-protection behavior is really all that necessary. Maybe they can lay off of it a little bit without compromising what is obviously an effort to protect the engine on their part.

I don't understand what is making you think that is "operating as designed". Your post is the first I am hearing of anyone with the 2.5L NA losing half of it's horsepower in cold weather.

We've had cold weather and mine definitely does not do that. If it did, I'd be throwing a fit.
 
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