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Thread: California Exhaust Law has changed- for the worst

  1. #16
    Banned Chris_Top_Her's Avatar
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    Guys remember this is America our government is pretty large as is...The more this type of legislation is championed the closer we come to a full on socialist pile. 30-35 years ago the USSR, our biggest rival and its countries were failing.. people were fleeing (or trying at risk of life) those systems in droves. We can make fun of The Socialist Republic of California all we want, but just like the cancer warning they place on everything sold in that state, it can spread throughout the country. I mean they tried to enact a Tax on text messaging.. come on. Ridiculous socialism is the norm there...and their high cost (but not necessarily superior) of living reflects it. You think it's a good idea until some law maker enacts something that increases your cost of living or reduces your quality of life. The law reflects the actions of few onto the entire population in a effort to control the few, like many other hot topic legislations. Guns being an example, which mostly affect the legal/law abiding gun owners, not the illegal ones who commit the majority of these gun crimes. But hey, anything for extra tax dollars is a win for Cali lawmakers. People never look at the big picture of these laws, they only look at the topic itself. Next one could say that having aftermarket suspension is illegal, which may sound normal to some of our Euro/Commonwealth friends, but is not how we do things in North America. These types of laws keep coming until they affect your life more and more and you have no choice but to pay into them/abide by them.

    Cali was a fun place to live, but as an adult the cost of living is not justified by anything that they have to offer.. and I get free tuition at an UC or State college there as a California veteran.. I'm living in Texas and attending uni here instead lol.

    I found this to make "95db" a little more tangible

    Boeing 737 or DC-9 aircraft at one nautical mile (6080 ft) before landing (97 dB); power mower (96 dB); motorcycle at 25 ft (90 dB). Newspaper press (97 dB).
    90
    4 times as loud as 70 dB. Likely damage in 8 hour exposure.

    http://www.industrialnoisecontrol.co...e-examples.htm

    So, someone can get tickets for having an exhaust that doesn't even exceed 95db simply because it's modified. That's pretty jacked.

    You want some heavy automotive regulation, go look at Australia.

    Here is a popular meme (picture varies) going around automotive pages/forums right now Regardless what you think about gender changing, the point being that you can legally put non binary (I wonder how many people of the Cali population intend to do this) on a DL or a birth certificate but the muffler can get you a citation. Another one is "You can be illegal, but you can't change your muffler". There are many more. And they all have their ramifications. It goes back to what I said a few lines up about quality/cost of living for everyone, based on the actions of a few.


    Last edited by Chris_Top_Her; 01-10-2019 at 04:30 AM.

  2. #17
    Registered Member Anchorman's Avatar

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    What might seem like a cool sound to you Chris doesnít necessarily to the majority of adult members of the public who are entitled to some piece and quiet. Iím surrounded by overgrown kids with big bore exhausts who do not have one ounce of consideration for anybody else as long as their antics satisfy their own need to be noticed. Itís not about the politics, itís about the fact that manufacturers spend millions on development of exhaust systems so that cars have less of an impact on the public and the environment. You donít like it because your car violates virtually every aspect of the legislation it once confirmed to. What you do is up to you as long as you donít hurt or interfere with anybody else but while modifying the suspension doesnít have a direct effect unless you lose control of the car, items such as noise, emissions and to an increasing extent, lights, do. If the law tightens up it is for the good of the majority Iím afraid.

  3. #18
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    I wish there was a "like" button. I'm also sick of hearing fart bikes and cars. There's a car that passes the house at 5.00 in the morning everyday waking me up, all fart noise and no action. To make it worse it also has a dump valve for the turbo so as well as making a loud fart noise it also wheezes it's way up the street and..........it's a 10 year old Honda Civic.

  4. #19
    Banned Chris_Top_Her's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anchorman View Post
    What might seem like a cool sound to you Chris doesn*t necessarily to the majority of adult members of the public who are entitled to some piece and quiet. I*m surrounded by overgrown kids with big bore exhausts who do not have one ounce of consideration for anybody else as long as their antics satisfy their own need to be noticed. It*s not about the politics, it*s about the fact that manufacturers spend millions on development of exhaust systems so that cars have less of an impact on the public and the environment. You don*t like it because your car violates virtually every aspect of the legislation it once confirmed to. What you do is up to you as long as you don*t hurt or interfere with anybody else but while modifying the suspension doesn*t have a direct effect unless you lose control of the car, items such as noise, emissions and to an increasing extent, lights, do. If the law tightens up it is for the good of the majority I*m afraid.
    My car would not fall into the ban as I haven't touched any emission control on my exhaust system.
    California has this thing called "CARB" which is basically there own Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Vehicles have to be emissions certified there specifically to even be sold there (CX-5 Diesel hurdle). Any change on the emission system automatically would make it non compliant, as well a certain engine modification (such as turbo or supercharger kit) has to be CARB certified ($$$$) to be technically legal. The issue is that previously, one could get a "fix it ticket" if a modification was deemed illegal. The fine would be removed once the car was made complaint before a certain time. here is the outrage though:

    Now the rule is an officer can cite a $1000USD fine simply for "being to loud", based on a vehicle has a visibly aftermarket exhaust or visa versa. That's $1000 hard fine when it used to be a correctable fine. The aim is to be able to fine vehicles participating in "sideshows", car meets, street racing etc easily by making them easy to target, but it also affects people who aren't shutting down street/highways/businesses etc. So a regular car enthusiast who isn't doing burnouts at meets or revving through his neighborhood at night gets fined in the same manner as the guy who is an actual nuisance. Also, now that the cop has pulled you over with probable cause, you are opened up to any other investigation he/she feels is probable.


    This type of legislation isn't going to prevent those choice people, who *choose* to be uncourteous from zooming by a house at 5AM being loud on purpose anymore than having anti marijuana laws (which also vary state to state, like these exhaust laws/emissions testing) will keep people from buying, using, growing and distributing it. However it goes give the police a valid reason to tax the inoffensive citizen, in the same way people using weed for their own health/recreation can be.
    Anyone can turn their radio up and blast it loudly (stock or aftermarket) as they pass through neighborhoods at night, however most decent people choose not to. People who don't care will blast it on purpose.

    I would also like to point out that this law which was an amendment to an existing muffler/sound requirement got rid of the correctable part (fix it ticket). It was NOT vote extended to the population, but rather lawmakers who decide what's best for the people (of course revenue for the government is good for the people from a career politician ). 78 yes votes.

    Just because the majority votes on something doesn't mean it's good or properly motivated, or even experienced by the voters (likely just a vicarious experience). It might just "sound good". History show us many examples of this.

    The majority of this town council in Radstock, England voted to not fly the St. George flag as it may offend the (16) muslims living in the town.. I couldn't imagine a town in the USA voting to not fly the Stars and Stripes because it would offend a foreign group living within. But that's exactly what happened. I'm sure it "sounded good" to the majority of the council (not the voting population). I wonder what kind of message this sends to the to those wishing to further their own agendas. For California, more revenue.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Crusades.html

    It must be different in the UK because in the US, laws "tightening up" tend to garner a lot of opposition due to the ever increasing oversight/pocket reaching and wasteful spending that occurs. And you'd really have to live here to understand the legislation situation that goes on in California (whether you agree with the comparatively numeruous laws they enact/propose or not).
    Last edited by Chris_Top_Her; 01-10-2019 at 07:56 AM.
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    Can we please keep politics out of this and all threads.
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  6. #21
    Banned Chris_Top_Her's Avatar
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    I have an ad for a stock honda civic muffler up top in this thread lol.
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  7. #22
    Registered Member Anchorman's Avatar

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    Chris, I doubt your car would meet an emissions test due to everything that has gone on upstream of the exhaust but unless you didnít change anything on the exhaust that made it louder than designed then you would violate the law we are talking about. Let me stress, this is not personal, Iím more concerned about whet goes on my street than what you get up to wherever you are. To that extent my peace is disturbed and I would welcome that law here although I doubt weíll ever get it and if we did weíve got no cops to enforce it.

    Where you do effect me (along with probably millions globally) is that when you make uncontrolled modifications to your engine and tuning, you alter its emissions. Over here cars have an annual test that measures emissions but itís not hard to find a station where the ďcar enthusiastď owner will fiddle it. Not sure what happens in the US even if a test exists but if it does then your car will not pass it. These laws are not a gimmick, they are designed to clean up the atmosphere for future generations and itís a selfish act to flout them. Another point about me, Iím not a tree hugger do gooder, Iím just wary that we cannot go on raping the earth.

    I spent 17 years doing legal brake testing and approvals on brakes and within that test environment you get involved in whole vehicle testing. You cannot alter anything on the wheels or suspension without changing the vehicle dynamics. Any changes to the brakes are guess work unless they have been put through extensive static and dynamic testing not just to measure performance but the effects of weight transfer on tyre adhesion - that links back to suspension again.

    When a local law to target modified cars is introduced, it considers these aspects so what it aims to do is restrict these vehicle to events and meets as you suggest. The way to conform is to have the car taken to the event on a trailer and not under its own power. Of course there has to be that concession because under the time constraints, your car would make little difference and everybody gets a chance and we all get to see classic and vintage cars and steam trains and things of that nature.

    I maintain that running such a daily driver increases the risk of an accident and is selfish in terms of noise and emissions. I will not do it but weíre all different. I applaud California for taking steps to address it and I hope it sets a president for the rest of the world.

    One other thing as a side note. I donít think it is necessary to lash out on other non related subjects like trans gender, religion and guns. They are nothing to do with this subject.

  8. #23
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  9. #24
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    Chris gets it...

    Sad part is they won*t do shit to the Harley*s that are 3x as loud and obnoxious. All they*ll do is pick on the ricer kids with the fart cannons (I dislike and laugh at them too). It*s like the stereo laws here, they write ridiculous tickets (tried to give me one one time for a stock stereo) while the Harley rattled your windows from a mile away catching a smile and wave from the popo...

    I think Chris* car would pass emission, but even if it won*t, the damn Obnoxious Harleys with big cams and straight pipes won*t...

    Cali, ha, we don*t even have emissions in my state, racing cats or straight pipes for everyone...lol

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mox44ah View Post
    I thought this was going to be about emissions. It's more about modified exhaust systems that are more than 95 dbl. Hell, I'm for it. Less of these kids driving round in 1998 Honda Civics with fart can mufflers that are loud as hell.
    I think my OEM z06 was around 100dB.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
    I think my OEM z06 was around 100dB.
    Did it have a butterfly valve? I personally think they*re quiet, even at WOT, and probably in the low 90s.
    Last edited by NelsonLewis; 01-10-2019 at 11:48 AM.

  12. #27
    Resident barbarian ColoradoDriver's Avatar
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    I understand where Chris is coming from. Colorado is quickly turning into another California state where legislators who don't know jack shit about what they legislate decide they know better than you and me. The People's Republic of Boulder as we call it was funny for a while, but is spreading.

    I get what Chris is saying. Do we need a law for everything under the sun? There's a reason California is an expensive state to live and its funny seeing states trying to be like California becoming more expensive to live in every day (unless its your state )

    Anchorman, emission testing vary by state. My CX-5 is exempt from any kind of testing for 7 years from when I bought it. California on the other hand is one of the more if not most strict states.
    Last edited by ColoradoDriver; 01-10-2019 at 11:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonLewis View Post
    Did it have a butterfly valve? I personally think they*re quiet, even at WOT, and probably in the low 90s.
    You're right, it's only 92dB. I had to track it down. Yes, it had butterfly valves that bypassed the mufflers. It was worth about 20-30whp when they opened and you could feel it.

  14. #29
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    A bit more to discuss about:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nB_3_xUYqs

  15. #30
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    I got involved with California legislation once. We got information about a study on fish in the Bay Area. They found high levels of heavy metals in fish. They determined that one of the sources was wear debris from brake pads and when you think, it must end up somewhere. The knock on effect was a global reduction in friction materials of heavy metals like copper, lead and antimony. They were right. Thirty years later the same tests show virtually no contamination of fish samples. I don*t know if restrictions were imposed as a result of other sources of contamination.

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