For Driver-Assist system enthusiasts

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2018 Madza CX-9 GT
For Driver-Assist system enthusiasts

I am very interested in all these new Driver-Assist systems on newer vehicles. ( My 2018 Mazda CX-9 has full Radar Cruise and Lane Keeping Assist.). I am always frustrated that on our Mazda forums almost no one talks about (Or I guess even uses) these technologies.

And even most of YouTube Car reviewers seem to mostly ignore them or lump them all together without actually testing them. And even some testers seem to not really understand the difference between the Speed Control systems like Radar Cruise Control, and the Steering Control systems like Lane Keeping Assist.

Heres my thoughts and questions.

Radar (Adaptive) Cruise Control (The system that keeps you a set distance from the vehicle in front of you.). This tech has been around for 8-10 years or so, the only new thing is the "Full" ability (the Ability to bring your car to a complete stop and automatically re-accelerate as the vehicle in front of you does. In my Mazda experience it works pretty good but it could be better. Its problems are that it cannot See far enough ahead, meaning it continues holding the set speed until it gets closer to the traffic ahead, then needs to brake harder than I naturally would. (A normal driver would ease off on the gas pedal and coast toward the stopped traffic.). I think this is a common problem with all Radar Cruise Controls on all vehicles as many of them use the same components.

My main Radar Cruise Control complaint (Which again I believe is common to all manufactures (except Tesla?), is that once your vehicle comes to a complete stop (and the brakes hold automatically), unless the traffic in front of you moves within 3-4 seconds, the system times out", forcing you to then "resume" when the traffic starts moving again.

I believe that this should be a user setting, allowing it up to 2-3 minutes before it times out in other words it wouldnt keep requiring you to "resume" at every red light, but would behave much more automatically (Tesla Like??)

Lane Keeping Assist (LKA) heres where the confusion starts. First of all, all of these Lane Keeping systems are almost (or completely) separate from the Radar Cruise. On my Mazda (and other vehicles I've tried), you can turn the LKA off and still use the Radar Cruise; they are 2 separate systems (except for maybe Tesla).

Lane Keeping Warning systems old technology boring make noises when you cross over the lanes most users hate this and leave it off.

Lane Keeping Assist systems - current technology - senses when you approach (or go over) a lane, then actually lightly steers your vehicle back toward the middle. I have driven some of these and they tend to ping-pong you from one side to another. In my Mazda, it works fairly well when I cross a centerline (drivers side), but seldom works on the right side edge of the road. They do not tend to work under about 35mph.

Lane Centering (Lane Trace, Pro-pilot, Pilot Assist, Super Cruise, etc.) the interesting new technology that I WANT. Tracks the lanes and steers your vehicle, keeping you smoothly in the center of your lane. Looks like Toyotas new TSS 2.0 (on the new 2019 Rav 4) will have it. All of these systems pretty much make you hold on to the steering wheel often (which is OK). In my brief experiences with these systems (using them with the Radar Cruise), they really do take most of the work out of driving.

Again, heres where the frustration comes in, how do you find out which is best? Consumers Report just did a review on 4 vehicles with this tech and named the Cadillac Super Cruise the best, but I would never buy it since (as far as I know), it only works on mostly freeways (which I seldom use). I would want a system that works on any (lane marked) road (like Tesla). Here are the important questions Id like to know about every available system (that even Consumers Reports didnt answer)

Radar Cruise how long will it stay engaged when youre fully stopped?
Radar Cruise what is the minimum speed you can set it at?
(This is important Mazda does a great job of allowing you to set it at any speed (if youre going under 19 mph, it sets it to its minimum of 19).

Lane Centering Does it work while in stop-n-go traffic? (or only above a certain speed (like 37mph).
Lane Centering When is Mazda going to offer it?

Final Comment In almost all these systems the Lane Keeping systems automatically stay on and automatically start working again after you pass a certain speed (like 37mph) you never have to RESUME - begging the question why do you always have to keep RESUMING the Radar Cruise after being stopped for more than 4 seconds - doesn't make any sense to me!
 
Lane Centering (Lane Trace, Pro-pilot, Pilot Assist, Super Cruise, etc.) the interesting new technology that I WANT. Tracks the lanes and steers your vehicle, keeping you smoothly in the center of your lane.

I have a friend who has a friend that thought he wanted Lane Centering as well. That was until his car squarely hit every pothole. Some ideas look great on paper...
 
For the radar cruise control, making you resume after even a short period of time is a good safety thing.

Imagine someone sitting in their car stopped in traffic, feet not on the pedals. They decide to get out to look at traffic from the side of the road thinking the car is in park. At that time the cars in front of them start to move and get up to highway speed. You then have a car with no diver. I would think the system would kick off if a door was opened.

Or the person sitting there for a long time falls asleep, it could happen.
 
I believe the Mazda CURRENTLY cancels any Cruise Control Features when you open the door.

Anyway - TESLA is the clear leader in this technology - I would like to know how a TESLA handles the time-out thing? (I GUESS that it does not time-out)

ALSO - we don't have POTHOLES in Florida - (Not compared to Michigan where I came from!) - And the point you're missing is that with Lane Centering - when you see a pothole ahead, you handle it EXACTLY THE SAME as you currrently do (You turn slightly manually to avoid it).
 
I also have the MRCC and the LKAS. I think the timeout is great, and I wouldn't change it. It requires the driver to remain attentive. For that reason, I also appreciate the LKAS and it's minimal intervention. It simply reminds me to pay attention instead of steering my car for me. I can't remember which vehicle I was reading about, but one reviewer complained of having to "fight" with the steering wheel with the Lane Centering tech active. That would annoy the crap out of me, lol.

This is pure speculation, but I think the reason for why Mazda hasn't incorporated Lane Centering (aside from cost) is because the system interferes too much with driver input. Considering how much Mazda advertises the handling of the CX-9 and the "driver experience", it doesn't make sense to them to employ tech that takes the driving out of the equation. Again, just speculation, as I'm sure one could simply disable the Lane Centering tech if they wanted to. I'm sure it's mainly just due to cost.

One thing that does bug me about the MRCC is how slow the car accelerates when I hit resume. In bumper to bumper traffic, the slow acceleration is welcomed, but I wish the car would vary the throttle based on how quickly the car ahead accelerates or how far it is ahead of me (i.e. the further/closer the car ahead of me gets, the more/less throttle is applied).
 
Interesting video * however I notice it is for AUSTRIAN Mazda*s.

I can assure you my (American) 2018 CX-9 Touring does not have Lane Centering.

(FYI * when I talk about *Lane Centering* * I*m referring to a behavior like TESLA - the car stays in the middle of the lane by itself , even around mild curves* with our LKA * our cars drift to the lane markers before they get (somewhat) automatically corrected.)

Since Toyota is now offering it (They call it Lane Trace) on it*s low cost Corolla (and new 2019 Rav 4), cost should not be an issue.

I*m betting Lane Centering (Or Lane Trace, or Pro-Pilot, or Pilot Assist, or whatever they name it) will be included in 2020 CX-9*s * it will have to be for Mazda to remain competitive!
 
I agree that I wish the MRCC would accelerate quicker as it *resumes*.

Mazda already has pretty comprehensive *User Settings* * I*d like to see both a Resume Time-Out Setting (from 3 seconds to 3 minutes) * and a setting for how rapidly the MRCC accelerates upon "resume" (Slowly * Normal * Rapid).

Maybe in 2020 * MRCC 2.0 !
 
That's what i mean, other markets have better options than the US. we always seem to get the stripped down versions =(
I was very excited to see this option, but when the US cx9 came around, it was nowhere to be found...maybe too many variables on US roads?



Interesting video * however I notice it is for AUSTRIAN Mazda*s.

I can assure you my (American) 2018 CX-9 Touring does not have Lane Centering.

(FYI * when I talk about *Lane Centering* * I*m referring to a behavior like TESLA - the car stays in the middle of the lane by itself , even around mild curves* with our LKA * our cars drift to the lane markers before they get (somewhat) automatically corrected.)

Since Toyota is now offering it (They call it Lane Trace) on it*s low cost Corolla (and new 2019 Rav 4), cost should not be an issue.

I*m betting Lane Centering (Or Lane Trace, or Pro-Pilot, or Pilot Assist, or whatever they name it) will be included in 2020 CX-9*s * it will have to be for Mazda to remain competitive!
 
Hopefully MRCC will get better with the newer models, where it's not just "accelerate" or "brake"...add some "coasting" in between when slowing down would be amazing.
 
would be great to have this option,
extending the time-out to about 3min would be great to have, especially in this nyc traffic.

I agree that I wish the MRCC would accelerate quicker as it *resumes*.

Mazda already has pretty comprehensive *User Settings* * I*d like to see both a Resume Time-Out Setting (from 3 seconds to 3 minutes) * and a setting for how rapidly the MRCC accelerates upon "resume" (Slowly * Normal * Rapid).

Maybe in 2020 * MRCC 2.0 !
 
I also have the MRCC and the LKAS. I think the timeout is great, and I wouldn't change it. It requires the driver to remain attentive. For that reason, I also appreciate the LKAS and it's minimal intervention. It simply reminds me to pay attention instead of steering my car for me. I can't remember which vehicle I was reading about, but one reviewer complained of having to "fight" with the steering wheel with the Lane Centering tech active. That would annoy the crap out of me, lol.

This is pure speculation, but I think the reason for why Mazda hasn't incorporated Lane Centering (aside from cost) is because the system interferes too much with driver input. Considering how much Mazda advertises the handling of the CX-9 and the "driver experience", it doesn't make sense to them to employ tech that takes the driving out of the equation. Again, just speculation, as I'm sure one could simply disable the Lane Centering tech if they wanted to. I'm sure it's mainly just due to cost.

One thing that does bug me about the MRCC is how slow the car accelerates when I hit resume. In bumper to bumper traffic, the slow acceleration is welcomed, but I wish the car would vary the throttle based on how quickly the car ahead accelerates or how far it is ahead of me (i.e. the further/closer the car ahead of me gets, the more/less throttle is applied).

I have a similar mindset and agree with the points you make. Having just returned from a 1,600 mile shakedown cruise to the Outer Banks, (I'm only at 1,800 miles total), this thread is about everything I have on my mind as I continue to learn how to best adapt these systems into my driving. Initially I thought that many of these features would be things I would keep turned off, but I have become a huge fan of everything this car brings to the table as a driving enthusiast. Some of my early take-a-ways follow in no particular order.

One of the amazing things I found about the adaptive cruise control was its ability to maximize fuel efficiency. (The accuracy of the fuel management data on board is remarkable as well.) Fuel consumption over the entire two week trip was 25.5 mpg, while the AWD EPA estimate is 20/26 mpg. My first full fill-up was with 93 octane once in the OBX. With about 40 miles into that tank, we struck out one day to drive the entire Hatteras National Seashore from Nags Head to Hatteras Village - about 80 miles one way. I had the cruise engaged for virtually the entire day. (Anyone familiar with Route 12 knows this is about as flat and straight as roads ever get.) The amazing thing to watch was the average continuing to climb for the entire day. By the time we stopped at Bodie Island Light as the sun was setting, the average after 180 miles was up to 29.9 mpg! Unfortunately, once back in the start and stop traffic of Nags Head & Kitty Hawk, the mpg had peaked. I believe it would have ticked a 30 if we hadn't run out of national park road.

I also found that the radar control worked best in terms of acceleration by setting max speed a bit faster than I really want to go, but this requires a target in front of the car as the guide for speed calculation. Obviously there were sections of road where the posted limit drops in populated areas; these postings range from 55mph to as low as 25 mph. I got caught off guard in one of those 25 mph sections when the ONLY car in front of me pulled off the road and my speed was still set at 60 mph! The car immediately lurched forward and I had to quickly dial back my speed. I think setting a higher than desired top speed can eliminate some lag, but as stated above, it requires the driver to be fully engaged.

Another facet I believe works better with a counter intuitive approach is the distance setting. The more I played with this under highway and traffic/signal conditions, I found that using a shorter setting on the highway worked best, while extending to the longer distance improved the smoothness of responses in stop n go conditions IMO. My sense is that some distinct calculations are being analyzed by the radar, one is naturally speed and changes in speed, and the other is the speed (rate of change) of which any acceleration/deceleration is occurring. I had the flashing red "BRAKE!" warning triggered in the HUD one time when the car in front of me was slowing down to turn off the road as I began to accelerate and steer away from the turning car... the system DID NOT LIKE the delta of the divergent rates of change.

As for the lane drift warning, if it did make a noise I would keep it off... ALWAYS! (I may be mistaken here, and correct if I'm wrong but), One of the things I feel that makes it instinctive and subtle, is that the vibration in the steering wheel occurs on the side to which you are drifting, no? I swear the vibration changes from side to side, which makes my response more a reflex if it is something I was not aware of... at least that is how I perceive it.

Edit: One additional thought - which would appear to be a simple fix - would be to include an indicator in the HUD letting you know when the system is applying the brakes. Sometimes at highway speeds on congested Interstates, it was not always clear whether deceleration was being assisted with braking, or if it was only immediate removal of throttle?
 
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ADAS * Advanced Driver Assistance Systems UPDATE

As I have vented about in the past * the way most Stop-n-Go Radar Cruise Control Systems (including ours), *time out" in only 3-4 seconds after they stop your vehicle doesn*t make sense (the vehicle is standing still! * HELLO!) *

Watching a youtube demo of the 2020 Mercedes GLE I see their new *Stop-n-Go Radar Cruise" waits a full 60 seconds until it times out * as I*ve suggested before, this should be a *User Setting* * (I*d make it 3 secs to 3 minutes.) Hopefully Mazda is keeping up with the way the industry is going.
 
Radar Cruise goes back further than I thought... I knew late 90's for Mercedes but Mitsubishi back in '92. Many may not remember but Mitsubishi used to be a pioneer for a lot of tech in autos in 80's and early 90s. My '07 G35x has radar cruise.

https://allaboutdieselz.blogspot.com/2015/08/adaptive-cruise-control.html

1992: Mitsubishi was the first automaker to offer a Lidar-based distance detection system on the Japanese market Debonair. Marketed as Distance Warning, this early system only warned the driver, without influencing throttle, brakes or gearshifting.
1995: Mitsubishi Diamante introduced laser Preview Distance Control. This early system only controlled speed through throttle control and downshifting, but did not apply the brakes.
1997: Toyota began to offer a "laser adaptive cruise control" (lidar) system on the Japanese market Celsior. It only controlled speed through throttle control and downshifting, but did not apply the brakes.
1999: Mercedes introduced Distronic, the first worldwide radar-assisted ACC, on the Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W220). and the CL-Class.
1999: Jaguar began offering a radar-based Adaptive Cruise Control system on the Jaguar XK (X100)
1999: Nissan introduced laser (lidar) Adaptive Cruise Control on Japanese market Nissan Cima.
2000: BMW introduced radar Active Cruise Control in Europe on the BMW 7 Series (E38)
2000: The Lexus division was the first to bring laser adaptive cruise control to the US market in late 2000 with the LS 430's Dynamic Laser Cruise Control system.
2000: Toyota further refined their laser ACC system by adding "brake control", that also applied brakes[7]
2001: Infiniti introduces laser Intelligent Cruise Control on 2002 Infiniti Q45#Third generation F50.
2001: Renault introduced Adaptive Cruise Control on the Renault Vel Satis (supplied by Bosch)
2002: Lancia introduced radar adaptive cruise control (by Bosch) on the Lancia Thesis
2002: Volkswagen introduced radar Adaptive cruise control on the Volkswagen Phaeton in first half of 2002, manufactured by Autocruise (now (TRW).
2002: Audi introduced radar Adaptive cruise control (Autocruise) on the Audi A8 in late 2002
2003: Cadillac introduced radar adaptive cruise control (ACC) on the Cadillac XLR
2003: Toyota shifted from laser (lidar) to radar ACC technology: October 2003 radar ACC on the Celsior.[7] The first Lexus Dynamic Radar Cruise Control and a radar-guided pre-collision system on the Lexus LS(XF30) US market facelift.
2004: Toyota added "low-speed tracking mode" to the radar ACC on the Crown Majesta. The low-speed speed tracking mode was a second mode that would warn the driver if the car ahead stopped and provide braking; it could stop the car but then deactivated.
2005: In the United States, Acura first introduced radar Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) integrated with a Collision avoidance system (Collision Mitigation Braking System (CMBS)) in the late calendar year 2005 in the model year 2006 Acura RL as an optional feature.
2005: Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W221) refined the Distronic system to completely halt the car if necessary (now called "Distronic Plus". Now offered on E-Class and most Mercedes sedans. In an episode of Top Gear, Jeremy Clarkson demonstrated the effectiveness of the cruise control system in the S-class by coming to a complete halt from motorway speeds to a round-about and getting out, without touching the pedals.
2006: Audi introduced Full speed range ACC plus on the Audi Q7. It has low-speed mode, and additional functions to warn the driver of a potential collision, and prepare emergency braking as needed. The system supplied by Bosch is also available in the 2008 Audi A8, the Audi Q5, 2009 Audi A6 and the new 2010 Audi A8. The Audi A4 is available with an older version of the ACC that does not stop the car completely.
2006: Nissan introduced Intelligent Cruise Control with DISTANCE CONTROL ASSIST on Nissan Fuga. It pushes the gas pedal against the foot when the DVD navigation with GPS determines that an unsafe speed is being maintained. If the Autonomous cruise control system is being used, the Distance Control Assistance will reduce speed automatically, and will warn the driver that an adjustment is being made with an audible bell sound.
2006: September 2006 Toyota introduced its "all-speed tracking function" for the Lexus LS 460. This radar-assisted system maintains continuous control from speeds of 0 km/h to 100 km/h and is designed to work under repeated starting and stopping situations such as highway traffic congestion.
2007: BMW introduced full-speed Active Cruise Control Stop-and-Go on the BMW 5 Series (E60).
2008: Lincoln introduced radar adaptive cruise control on the 2009 Lincoln MKS.
2008: SsangYong Motor Company introduced radar Active Cruise Control on the SsangYong Chairman
2009: Hyundai introduces radar Adaptive cruise control on Hyundai Equus in Korean market.
2009: ACC and CMBS also became available as optional features in the model year the 2010 Acura MDX[26][not in Mid Model Change (MMC) and the newly introduced model year 2010 Acura ZDX.
2010: Audi world first GPS-guided radar ACC on Audi A8#D4
2010: Jeep introduces Adaptive Cruise Control on the 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee
2013: Mercedes introduced DISTRONIC PLUS with Steering Assist (traffic jam assist) on the Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W222)
2013: BMW introduced Active Cruise Control with Traffic Jam Assistant
2014: Chrysler introduces full speed range radar Adaptive Cruise Control with Stop+ on the 2015 Chrysler 200.
2015: Ford introduces first pickup truck with Adaptive Cruise Control on the 2015 Ford F150

Vehicles models supporting adaptive cruise control
There are three main categories of ACC:
-Vehicles with Full Speed Range 0MPH adaptive cruise control are able to bring the car to a full stop to 0 mph & need to be re-activated to continue moving with something like a tap of the gas pedal.
-Vehicles with Traffic Jam Assist / Stop & Go (there isn't yet a good industry phrase as they are all proprietary) will auto resume from standstill to creep with stop & go traffic.
-Vehicles with Partial cruise control cuts off & turns off below a set minimum speed, requiring driver intervention.
 
Wow - thanks for the info!

Now - as I was saying, Mazda currently has your number 1 Full Stop/Go with the need to (endlessly) be re-activated.

And I'm waiting for your number 2 - with "AUTO RESUME" (I haven't heard that term but it seems perfect!)
 
Im in the market for a 7 seater and would love to look at the CX-9, is there any news on when they will likely introduce the lane centering in addition to the adaptive cruise control?

As a Volvo driver (XC60) who's very much in love with their 'Pilot Assist' lane centering function, I won't look at the Mazda until they have it, it makes highway driving a real joy (well less of a pain!) but would prefer a CX-9 to an XC90
 
I haven't heard anything yet, but considering Mazda's steps toward building a premium brand, it shouldn't be too far off. I would say that it'll show up on the next generation of CX-9. Might be a couple of years. Being a smaller company, they're usually a little behind the curve when it comes to adapting new tech.
 
I actually wonder how many people use these technologies? My brothers Acura had the lane centering and it worked well but he never, ever used it.

What I do like is that the systems are getting better. Our 2004 Sienna mini-van had the variable cruise control and honestly it sucked big time. The camera would always get cracked and it was a $1500 replacement. Without it, no cruise control. The system also would automatically turn off when the wipers were turned on. These new system really benefit from the smaller and more robust camera's.
 
I actually wonder how many people use these technologies? My brothers Acura had the lane centering and it worked well but he never, ever used it.

What I do like is that the systems are getting better. Our 2004 Sienna mini-van had the variable cruise control and honestly it sucked big time. The camera would always get cracked and it was a $1500 replacement. Without it, no cruise control. The system also would automatically turn off when the wipers were turned on. These new system really benefit from the smaller and more robust camera's.

Considering the number of people you see in cars (which must have bluetooth) holding mobile phones, I suspect many!

My wife never the uses the ACC in her car, much to my annoyance, as I think its a great safety feature
 
Considering the number of people you see in cars (which must have bluetooth) holding mobile phones, I suspect many!

My wife never the uses the ACC in her car, much to my annoyance, as I think its a great safety feature


Yeah, good call on the bluetooth. I think every women on the road uses their phone in speaker mode while in the car instead of bluetooth.
 
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