White Pearl Paint Query Initiated With Mazda USA Irvine California

I was planning to keep this car for many years, at last 10, but have already decided that I'll keep it for no longer than 5 years, and then sell/trade it.

If so, learning to DIY a detailed PPF job would help to protect your investment and lower your cost. I'm looking into 3M, Avery, XPEL and Llumar. Don't know which yet, but I'm considering doing a highly detailed and patient DIY of the entire vehicle just to be safe. If not, then the full hood, front quarter panels and front bumper without question will be done. Still looking at different techniques for handling contours and complex adjoining surfaces. From what I can tell, not over stretching the material is key to a long lasting install and dealing with "Fingering" the right way seems to prevent peeling at the edges after drying.

I'm pretty sure I can get it done right the first time, but I also need to figure out of going with a Pre-Cut Kit for the CX-9 has any advantages over doing a so-called "Bulk Install" and then trimming manually. Of course, now, there is "Knifeless Tape" made expressly for the thicker PPF material. I guess it is different than the knifeless tape used for Vinyl Wrap material.
 
I got rid of the squeal with cleaning during my last oil change and tire rotation. But, the Pop at parking lot speeds after shifting into and out of Park, Drive and Reverse is actually getting louder with time. I took it to the same dealer who took pictures of the paint on the front bumper. That same dealer who said the damage to the front bumper was caused by "external" sources and thus not the concern of Mazda, was the exact same dealer who also said the brake popping sound was "normal" and was the result of the design of the "Brake Shims."

This "explanation" from the Mazda Dealership could in fact be true, given some brake pad designs these days. I'll know more after I get more life out of the OEM pads and replace both pads and rotors with quality a aftermarket kit from StopTech. If the pop goes away after that, it would more than likely have been the OEM pad/rotor combination. If not, it will most likely be the OEM Caliper design causing the problem.

I haven't gotten the time to mess with it yet, but it is on my to-do list. The explanation you got from the service dept is the exact reason I wouldn't bring it in. It is just a waste of time. But I expected this from the get-go. Mazda APPEARS to be a more "premium" looking brand but still operates just like any other eco low end brands. Compare to the service you get at Infiniti and Lexus is a whole different league. When I take my cars in for any issues, they truly do make it painless. Parts would be replaced under warranty with no fuss.
 
So White Pearls, it sounds like your whole beef with Mazda is that at one point they said they would take care of the repaint at no cost to you. And then they changed their tune requiring you to pay half (probably 2 different people).

In turn, you now feel as though you've been lied to and Mazda should go out of business. Even though it sounds like you dealt with different people in which case you're always going to here different things. In this case, is it Mazda lying?

Aside from all this, you may be surprised to learn that a very small percentage of owners would even bring such an issue up with a dealer /company even in your exact circumstance. I've never owned a car that didn't get rock chips. I've paid attention to many brands and many are worse than Mazda's paint. So while you are on a mission to destroy one of the best car companies, it's over an issue most would chock up to normal wear and tear that is NOT covered under warranty.

The fact that Mazda was offering to pay half of a repaint is going above and beyond what they are required to do. Rock chips are not covered under warranty. Only paint defects are. If you throw rocks at your car, it wouldn't be on Mazda to repaint. It's going to chip the paint. Severity doesn't matter.

You should be thanking Mazda for their offer.
 
While reading the Mazdas247 #1 Novel of 2018... I didn't see any mention of this. Since you are unhappy with the result of your effort which stopped at step 2, next is step 3, BBB. Now that it's all documented that's what you do next. Might take a few weeks but this does and has worked for owners with other issues not resolved satisfactorily by MazdaNA.

gX5rlLX.jpg
 
So White Pearls, it sounds like your whole beef with Mazda is that at one point they said they would take care of the repaint at no cost to you. And then they changed their tune requiring you to pay half (probably 2 different people).

In turn, you now feel as though you've been lied to and Mazda should go out of business. Even though it sounds like you dealt with different people in which case you're always going to here different things. In this case, is it Mazda lying?

Aside from all this, you may be surprised to learn that a very small percentage of owners would even bring such an issue up with a dealer /company even in your exact circumstance. I've never owned a car that didn't get rock chips. I've paid attention to many brands and many are worse than Mazda's paint. So while you are on a mission to destroy one of the best car companies, it's over an issue most would chock up to normal wear and tear that is NOT covered under warranty.

The fact that Mazda was offering to pay half of a repaint is going above and beyond what they are required to do. Rock chips are not covered under warranty. Only paint defects are. If you throw rocks at your car, it wouldn't be on Mazda to repaint. It's going to chip the paint. Severity doesn't matter.

You should be thanking Mazda for their offer.


Thank you for summarizing this... the dealer here probably punted because he eventually realized corporate would deny this claim, but some overzealous guy had made some commitments notwithstanding, I'd be pissed too. While I don't dispute OP's merit, personally, I fail to see why/ how he wouldn't have simply wrapped the thing with vinyl or clear-bra'd the front at least and call it a day, clearly he/she is passionate in keeping the car clean. Other than rust, and workmanship defects (flaking, mis-match...etc), Mazda would not typically pick up the tab on this.

OP, from a reliability standpoint, I would not expect he Velar/stelvio/XC-9s to hold the same footing as the CX-9 and and I am not shilling for Mazda either. Either way, I do hope you find what you are looking for, looking forward to seeing your review of the new ride.
 
If so, learning to DIY a detailed PPF job would help to protect your investment and lower your cost. I'm looking into 3M, Avery, XPEL and Llumar. Don't know which yet, but I'm considering doing a highly detailed and patient DIY of the entire vehicle just to be safe. If not, then the full hood, front quarter panels and front bumper without question will be done. Still looking at different techniques for handling contours and complex adjoining surfaces. From what I can tell, not over stretching the material is key to a long lasting install and dealing with "Fingering" the right way seems to prevent peeling at the edges after drying.

I'm pretty sure I can get it done right the first time, but I also need to figure out of going with a Pre-Cut Kit for the CX-9 has any advantages over doing a so-called "Bulk Install" and then trimming manually. Of course, now, there is "Knifeless Tape" made expressly for the thicker PPF material. I guess it is different than the knifeless tape used for Vinyl Wrap material.

If you want to buy part of the pre-cut kit (bumper missing), someone in the for sale section is selling a 3M PPF kit for the Gen 2 CX-9. However, I'm not sure you'd be happy with it considering your preferences with your paint. The pre-cut kits are much easier to install, but they are cut in a way that creates "creases" along otherwise smooth surfaces. Example:

Y3M400.jpg


I think going the knifeless tape route and using bulk material cut down to size would give you the best results, but would be 5x harder to install. If you go that route, there is a user here who wrapped the entirety of his wife's CX-9 with red vinyl, and it looked like he did a great job. Maybe he can provide some tips.

Aside from all this, you may be surprised to learn that a very small percentage of owners would even bring such an issue up with a dealer /company even in your exact circumstance. I've never owned a car that didn't get rock chips. I've paid attention to many brands and many are worse than Mazda's paint. So while you are on a mission to destroy one of the best car companies, it's over an issue most would chock up to normal wear and tear that is NOT covered under warranty.

The fact that Mazda was offering to pay half of a repaint is going above and beyond what they are required to do. Rock chips are not covered under warranty. Only paint defects are. If you throw rocks at your car, it wouldn't be on Mazda to repaint. It's going to chip the paint. Severity doesn't matter.

Paint that does this 3-days after taking delivery and extends that same poor performance for 8 full months, is not paint that should have ever been put into production.

I agree. It's one thing for paint to chip. But for penetrations that go all the way through like those in your photos.. something is indeed fishy. The severity does matter, as a standard rock chip looks quite different from the damage on WP's car.

Here's the million dollar question though - How will you go about proving that your driving habits/environment did not cause this damage? If I were Mazda, and this issue was brought to my attention, I'd have a service tech actually test the paint. I have no idea how they would do that. Maybe they could do an impact test on your bumper, then do the same impact test to another bumper on their lot. If there's a difference, that's a pretty clear indicator that there's a definite issue with your paint. Of course, I don't think you'd find a dealer who's be willing to damage a car on their lot for such a test, regardless of make.

This leads me to another point:

All I asked Mazda to do was accept that failure as its own and fix the problem by repainting the bumper. It lied to me, told me that it was going to take care of the problem and then at the last minute, informed me that I would need to pay 50% the cost of solving a problem that Mazda created.

Maurice/Jesse may have failed miserably, but what I'm saying is, who knows if someone else may have been able to get you the outcome you desire. Having dealt directly with customers (in a completely different industry and over 15 years ago), I have seen and worked with A. those who would go above and beyond, B. those who would do the bare minimum of what's required, and C. those who would provide poor service intentionally (usually to spite a customer). The persons you dealt with sound like they fit into B or C.

When I was in service, I considered myself to be a mix of A and B. I would have tried to handle this differently, that's for sure.

You are right, when you initiate a dialogue with the service department of any company, there's no way to know exactly who you'll be dealing with and what you can expect. With that said, after dealing with Maurice/Jesse, I would have opened a complaint with the BBB. Most big corporations take BBB inquiries seriously, and chances are good that you'd get someone better equipped to handle your situation. I'd bet Mazda has a PR person or two dedicated to handling BBB claims. If that did not get me the resolution I wanted, then I'd consider lawyering up.

In this day and age, are there any Auto Manufacturers out there with Integrity. That really seems to be the elephant in the room. The mechanical issues aside - where are the Manufacturers that won't lie to you, manipulate evidence, pretend evidence of their failure does not exist and that will stand behind their product when something goes wrong.

Sadly, I don't know of any that I would call high integrity. All of them, I think, would fall short of your expectations, simply because as an auto manufacturer who employs a multitude of different people, I don't think there's any way to guarantee that you'll be dealing with someone who represents that high level of integrity, every single time you have an issue. I had a fantastic experience with Lexus, but I've also heard plenty of horror stories. Same thing with my experience with Mazda.
 
So according to Jesse, Mazda won't do a repaint because their dealer says the damage is external. What else do you expect him to say? You bought the car from the dealer, not from Mazda. Mazda works through its dealers. If the dealer says the damage is external and not the fault of poor paint quality, then it is the dealer you should be going after.

I have purchased around 20 new cars in my lifetime, ranging from a Simca (don't ask...) to a Maserati. More BMWs than any other brand, but also Dodge-rebadged-Mitsubishis, Datsun/Nissans, Volvos, Mazdas, a Saab, and even, so help me, a PT Cruiser. Some of the cars were bulletproof, one or two were awful. But the one thing I discovered very early on was that, when there is a problem, you catch more bees with honey. Launch an all-out attack -- as you have done here -- and you will lose. Talk to people as a reasonable businessman (which I gather you are) and you will be amazed at what you can accomplish. All without high blood pressure.

A good friend of mine owns some auto dealerships. He constantly deals with cases like yours, some of which raise valid criticisms but most of which are simply rants regarding unrealistic expectations. All the ranters, without exception, do the same as you are threatening: set up negative websites, 'label' the car in some way as a lemon, go to court, etc. But it is always the people who are reasonable, polite, and make realistic demands who get satisfaction. If I were in your shoes, I would take the vehicle to a recognized independent paint expert, have them inspect it, and, if they agree with you that the problem is poor paint, have them document that. Then take that first to your dealer and then, if the dealer gives you no satisfaction, to Mazda. Evidence from an independent third party, coupled with a reasonable request by you to have the affected areas repainted, will go a long way to resolving the issue once and for all. Ranting about Mazda being unethical won't accomplish anything.
 
^^ Good post.

I've never heard of a car company fixing something under warranty at full cost regarding damage to external forces. White Pearl's needs to understand that Mazda had no obligation to repaint when it could be rocks hitting the car while going 80mph down the highway.

If you took the CX-9 off-roading and sustained damage do you really hold Mazda responsible because it's and "SUV" and should be able to off-road? This whole thing is asinine to me.

Yeah, paint chips suck but paint warranty only covers paint defects that occurs by itself not by being hit by foreign objects. Just like Mazda won't replace your cracked windshield due to the same projectile.
 
WP, the hardness of your paint needs to be tested. There are always possibilities of a bad batch of paint or a problem with the robots that painted it or the oven that baked it.

You might call around some of the bigger body shops in your region and ask about hardness testing. Also ask any local paint manufacturers (although there are fewer every year). Try a local wholesale auto paint distributor.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Testing_Your_Coatings_Hardness.html
http://www.worldoftest.com/paint-coating-testing
https://www.detailingwiki.org/detai...t-is-paint-hardness/#Determining_the_hardness

You need data to take your claim any farther. I know, it shouldn't be up to you. But, it is. Best of luck.

Before the paint is dinged, consider one of the semi-clearcoatings added by a detail shop or DIY. These can also be called ceramic or nano or glass coating. These are not permanent, may last a couple of years, and are harder than paint. Here is one example: https://www.autopia-carcare.com/gyeon-q2-mohs-50ml.html#.W8pxG_ZRfcs
 
Merged the two threads into one since they are both getting activity.
 
Who was the person that I think was kicked off the forums a while ago who had a picture/avatar of some small jet plane? He always had very long, detailed posts. White Pearls posts like him.

Cessna got himself banned very shortly after his arrival. Are you suggesting he is back????? Interesting....
 
Well, white pearls hasn't posted in 2 days after a moderator threat. That straightened him out.
 
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Well, white pearls hasn't posted in 2 days after a moderater threat. That straightened him out.

No one said he couldn't post. Just asked to keep it in the relevant thread(s). Which so far he has obliged (thanks).
 
So White Pearls' paint issue appears to be a limited issue, and maybe just to the white and red paints. The reason I say that is because I'm not seeing a lot of people having this particular issue as bad as he is. I don't recall any of the long-term test reports by Motor Trend, Car and Driver, etc. mentioning this problem.

So I hope White Pearls gets the paint tested and proven to be faulty. He shouldn't have to do that, but that seems to be the reality of the situation at this point. If proven then Mazda should do the right thing and pay for his paint and associated costs, plus investigate if there were batches of badly painted cars and recall those particular ones.

Also, how can you even tell before you buy a Mazda if the paint has a problem?
 
Don't want to flog this subject to death, but Mazda has a couple of videos hidden away on YouTube somewhere that talk about how they had to develop a whole new painting process for the red and machine grey paints. I don't know if white was the same.
 
Don't want to flog this subject to death, but Mazda has a couple of videos hidden away on YouTube somewhere that talk about how they had to develop a whole new painting process for the red and machine grey paints. I don't know if white was the same.

I think you are referring to the "Crystal" designation on the colors. Though there does seem to be an additional layer, I don't know if this was a durability enhancement as much as it was about making the color "pop" more. I have looked at the regular and the crystal soul red and there is a distinct difference. However, if this was the case, we'd have a lot more people complaining since multiple colors are still offered in the standard form besides mica.

Soul-Red-Crystal-crop-1024x475.jpg
 
So White Pearls' paint issue appears to be a limited issue, and maybe just to the white and red paints. The reason I say that is because I'm not seeing a lot of people having this particular issue as bad as he is. I don't recall any of the long-term test reports by Motor Trend, Car and Driver, etc. mentioning this problem.

So I hope White Pearls gets the paint tested and proven to be faulty. He shouldn't have to do that, but that seems to be the reality of the situation at this point. If proven then Mazda should do the right thing and pay for his paint and associated costs, plus investigate if there were batches of badly painted cars and recall those particular ones.

Also, how can you even tell before you buy a Mazda if the paint has a problem?

And is it only limited to the CX-9? Have not heard much in regards to the CX-5, Mazda 3 or Mazda 6? Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about the soul red...
 
Buzzman12 posted earlier in this thread about his 2017 6 in MGM having the same sort of damage with about 11,500 kms. I also have chips in my 2018 CX-9 in MGM, but they're tiny and not as deep as those posted by WP.
 
So White Pearls' paint issue appears to be a limited issue, and maybe just to the white and red paints. The reason I say that is because I'm not seeing a lot of people having this particular issue as bad as he is. I don't recall any of the long-term test reports by Motor Trend, Car and Driver, etc. mentioning this problem.

So I hope White Pearls gets the paint tested and proven to be faulty. He shouldn't have to do that, but that seems to be the reality of the situation at this point. If proven then Mazda should do the right thing and pay for his paint and associated costs, plus investigate if there were batches of badly painted cars and recall those particular ones.

Also, how can you even tell before you buy a Mazda if the paint has a problem?

Yeah, Car and Driver put 40,000 miles on a CX-9 and no paint issues, no mention of unusual chips up front. And you can bet they're not easy on their fleet cars.
 
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