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Thread: Transmission fluid change without filter replacement

  1. #16
    Registered Member CX-5um's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humid Hummus View Post

    If the filter has enough material on it to cause blockage, that means you did not maintain your transmission properly and a drain/fill will simply increase the chances of breaking those little shavings free and getting them stuck in one of the transmissions many intricate passageways. This is why I recommend not to touch your transmission at all if you don't plan on changing the pan filter, because you're just going to have more problems.
    ^^this represents 1/2 of why you should not touch the tranny (if never serviced) past 100k miles. The other half is that the metal shavings (ARE) beneficial to the system.

    Over time, Larger bits are stuck on magnet/filter. Smaller bits become crucial lubricant for moving friction parts (now with gaps due to metal shaving). When removing the fluid/filter you may:

    -Agitate the Larger bits to cause clogging.
    -Moving friction parts has these gaps which rely on small metal shavings. Not having small shavings means mechanical failure risk.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CX-5um View Post
    ^^this represents 1/2 of why you should not touch the tranny (if never serviced) past 100k miles. The other half is that the metal shavings (ARE) beneficial to the system.

    Over time, Larger bits are stuck on magnet/filter. Smaller bits become crucial lubricant for moving friction parts (now with gaps due to metal shaving). When removing the fluid/filter you may:

    -Agitate the Larger bits to cause clogging.
    -Moving friction parts has these gaps which rely on small metal shavings. Not having small shavings means mechanical failure risk.
    This only becomes an issue after about 150K+ miles. At 100K there really is no risk to change your transmission fluid and pan filter, as the transmission is not relying on those little metal bits for friction just yet. Better late than never. Ask me how I know...

    If you are changing your pan filter by 125K or so, whatever leftover metal particles will get caught by the new magnet filter. This is why so many people advise against a simple drain/fill at this mileage, because those metal particles are much less likely to get caught by the old original filter.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humid Hummus View Post
    This only becomes an issue after about 150K+ miles. At 100K there really is no risk to change your transmission fluid and pan filter, as the transmission is not relying on those little metal bits for friction just yet. Better late than never. Ask me how I know...

    If you are changing your pan filter by 125K or so, whatever leftover metal particles will get caught by the new magnet filter. This is why so many people advise against a simple drain/fill at this mileage, because those metal particles are much less likely to get caught by the old original filter.
    Well, at 110K is when I did my Infiniti, or rather when the dealer did. Drain and fill, with filter swap. 5K miles later, it was deader than dead. Torque converter, too.

  4. #19
    Registered Member yrwei52's Avatar
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    Arrow Transmission fluid change without filter replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Humid Hummus View Post
    Incorrect. The transmission filter also has a magnet which traps metal shavings that break off from the transmission components. If you dropped your pan and looked at this filter after 60K, you'll be happy you did.
    No, the ATF filter cartridge (#5) inside of SkyActiv-Drive transmission has only regular *paper* type filtering material. The magnet is built into the ATF pan.


    If the filter has enough material on it to cause blockage, that means you did not maintain your transmission properly and a drain/fill will simply increase the chances of breaking those little shavings free and getting them stuck in one of the transmissions many intricate passageways. This is why I recommend not to touch your transmission at all if you don't plan on changing the pan filter, because you're just going to have more problems.
    No, the ATF, not like engine oil, is relative clean during its service life as the transmission is a *sealed* environment. The service life on this ATF cartridge is long and the metal shavings if any won*t get loose with drain-and-fill. Even if some larger shavings get loose they will get stopped by the filtering element again and won*t get into the passages of valve body. Metal shavings are heavier and most likely will stay at the bottom of the ATF pan and are kept there by the magnet.

    Changing the ATF filter/cartridge during the ATF change is a good practice. But our SkyActiv-Drive ATF pan uses silicon sealer which is hard to apply properly, and the factory service manual mentions only drain-and-fill procedure, not with filter / cartridge change.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    No, the ATF filter cartridge (#5) inside of SkyActiv-Drive transmission has only regular *paper* type filtering material. The magnet is built into the ATF pan.


    No, the ATF, not like engine oil, is relative clean during its service life as the transmission is a *sealed* environment. The service life on this ATF cartridge is long and the metal shavings if any won*t get loose with drain-and-fill. Even if some larger shavings get loose they will get stopped by the filtering element again and won*t get into the passages of valve body. Metal shavings are heavier and most likely will stay at the bottom of the ATF pan and are kept there by the magnet.

    Changing the ATF filter/cartridge during the ATF change is a good practice. But our SkyActiv-Drive ATF pan uses silicon sealer which is hard to apply properly, and the factory service manual mentions only drain-and-fill procedure, not with filter / cartridge change.
    It's not hard to apply properly at all. If your dealer says so, it's because they have inexperienced techs and do so few of them. Other brands do that every 30 to 50k miles without ever an issue.

  6. #21
    Underutilized Member shadonoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
    It's not hard to apply properly at all. If your dealer says so, it's because they have inexperienced techs and do so few of them. Other brands do that every 30 to 50k miles without ever an issue.
    A great argument against a weekend warrior tackling the job.

  7. #22
    Registered Member yrwei52's Avatar
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    Arrow Transmission fluid change without filter replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by shadonoz View Post
    A great argument against a weekend warrior tackling the job.
    Similar to a good caulking job, it definitely is not an easy job at least for me. You don’t want to apply too much silicon sealant which may get squeezed out and fall into the ATF pan; too little may fail to have a good sealing function.

  8. #23
    Registered Member yrwei52's Avatar
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    Arrow Transmission fluid change without filter replacement

    My opinion on ATF change is the same as this Scotty Kilmer guy ⋯


  9. #24
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    IMO... if you have enough metal to clog up that AT filter one has bigger issues than just bad fluid.

    I'm gonna do my partial change really...really soon.. I'm still at around 45-46K miles.
    '15 CX-5 GT 2.5L w/tech package - Liquid Silver Metallic (04/2014 build-07/2014 delivery) - 45K Miles

  10. #25
    Registered Member yrwei52's Avatar
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    Arrow Transmission fluid change without filter replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kedis82ZE8 View Post
    IMO... if you have enough metal to clog up that AT filter one has bigger issues than just bad fluid.

    I'm gonna do my partial change really...really soon.. I'm still at around 45-46K miles.
    I agree.

    I wouldn’t worry too much to drain-and-fill the ATF at 46K miles. I plan to do mine after 50K miles.

    Have you done anything on your small engine oil leak?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    I agree.

    I wouldn*t worry too much to drain-and-fill the ATF at 46K miles. I plan to do mine after 50K miles.

    Have you done anything on your small engine oil leak?
    It has again apparently subsided for the summer but I'll report back if it appears more noticeable when I partial change AT fluid. Not forgotten :-)
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedis82ZE8 View Post
    IMO... if you have enough metal to clog up that AT filter one has bigger issues than just bad fluid.

    I'm gonna do my partial change really...really soon.. I'm still at around 45-46K miles.
    Yep, if you have a clog the thing won't even run

  13. #28
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    Finally got around to the AT drain & refill at 103K miles. Drained fluid looked like strong coffee! Will repeat two more times with about 1K miles in between. Highway driving is about 65% of my miles. Definitely won't wait so long on any future car with "lifetime" fluid. Transmission seems to shift more smoothly, but could just be me. Wasn't experiencing any issues previously just trying to get the most miles on this vehicle as possible.

  14. #29
    Registered Member yrwei52's Avatar
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    Arrow Transmission fluid change without filter replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by LRopka View Post
    Finally got around to the AT drain & refill at 103K miles. Drained fluid looked like strong coffee! Will repeat two more times with about 1K miles in between. Highway driving is about 65% of my miles. Definitely won't wait so long on any future car with "lifetime" fluid. Transmission seems to shift more smoothly, but could just be me. Wasn't experiencing any issues previously just trying to get the most miles on this vehicle as possible.
    Great to have enough courage doing the first ATF drain-and-fill at 103K miles! Honestly I’d do the same no matter what. Hope you have nothing but good results from your ATF change. One thing I wouldn’t do is to wait for 1K miles for the next 2 changes. The fresh and old ATF will be fixed immediately by the ATF pump. I’d wait for a week or two, or a couple hundreds of miles in between to do the subsequent ATF changes. I imagine you used only genuine Mazda ATF FZ, nothing else.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrwei52 View Post
    I imagine you used only genuine Mazda ATF FZ, nothing else.
    Where are you guys buying this stuff as I have checked a few Mazda sites and they don't have it.

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