No fire under the hood

One thing to note, I never use the harmonic balancer to check timing. There's a timing mark on the gear the timing belt attaches to, and a corresponding mark on the engine block as well right above it. And I ALWAYS will release the tensioner, and rotate the engine over by hand (crank will make 2 revolutions) and make sure the timing marks all still line up (crank mark, and the I / E on the cam gears) after it's completed one full revolution. Maybe repeat a 2nd time just to double check and make sure.

IF it's not all lined up perfectly when you first put the belt on, it will be a tooth off when you rotate it by hand. NOW is the time to correct it and double check. You don't want to just start the car and find out the hard way you're a tooth off. then you have to take everythign back apart and do it all over again.
 
pcb said:
You're supposed to enter the code where it says "how did you hear about us??"

You can redo your order if it hasn't shipped yet.
Click to expand...

It applied since it won't ship out till tomorrow. Have all weekend to review information. Currently sprayed PB penetrating on the rusted engine mount bolts.

PB4, thanks for the hints..

Any others before I start this project?
 
scottma said:
..

Any others before I start this project?
Click to expand...

One thing that I personally think is important is to not attach your tensioner spring to the pin until you're done with the timing.
(the tensioner spring needs to be attached to the tensioner pulley because you can't attach it after the tensioner is installed)

That spring is REALLY important and putting the T-belt on and off till it's right, stretches the hell outta the spring.

And,.. As PB4 mentioned, rotate everything around and check your timing again.
I had my damn belt on and off a dozen times before it was finally right.. It was pissing me off. Everything was lined up perfect until after I spun it around a couple of times ( with the tensioner spring disconnected).

Don't for get this trick...

 
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Loosen your power steering pump pulley bolts before you remove the belt...
They're a PITA to reach and if the pulley just spins it's almost impossible to loosen them.
 
print the service manual before you start. trying to use an ipad or something with nasty hands doesn't always work out.

Spread out a few rags across the cylinder head to cover it once you remove the valve cover to prevent dirt/debris or dropping stuff into there while you're working on the rest.

I've seen pictures of multiple wrenches/etc holding the cams in place, but i've never done that. I just use some squeeze clamps to hold the belt on the cams and never had a problem. When aligning it though, make sure all of the slack is on the LEFT side where the tensioner is. The right hand side of it should be fairly snug. This will help to keep everything aligned because the tensioner will take up the slack.

When breaking the crank bolt loose, I have a 36" 1/2" drive ratchet. I put the handle on the frame rail (or lower control arm, can't remember which now) and bump the starter with the key. breaks the bolt loose every time. to reinstall the crank bolt when you put the harmonic balancer back on, an old belt and a chain wrench make it much, much easier :)

stock up on beer. you'll go through plenty and it's hot out there. wouldn't want you to get dehydrated now would we?

Whenever i tear into a motor, i will always put the bolts back in the holes they came from and keep them with the part I removed. Like motor mount, water pump, covers, valve cover, coils, etc. Clear off a work bench so it's nice and clean to put parts on. If you don't have a big work bench, lay a sheet of plywood or something on the ground. all this makes the reassembly 10x easier because you're not searching for bolts or parts. I also usually lay things in order of how they came off, so when going back together you just grab the next part in line. This is how I do it anyway... Not so much on my car because i've changed the timing belt twice now so don't even look at a book lol but organization helps.
 
pb4ugotobed said:
One thing to note, I never use the harmonic balancer to check timing. There's a timing mark on the gear the timing belt attaches to, and a corresponding mark on the engine block as well right above it...
Click to expand...

^^^ What he said...

 
pb4ugotobed said:
.

I've seen pictures of multiple wrenches/etc holding the cams in place, but i've never done that. I just use some squeeze clamps to hold the belt on the cams and never had a problem. ...
Click to expand...

What ??
I think I know what you mean but I didn't think of that when I did my car...

The cams don't want to sit where the timing marks are lined up... They're under spring pressure to pop a tooth or two outta wack,... so whatever holds them in place would help... Including a friend to hold them.
(give him beer and he'll be happy to help)
 
scottma said:
PCB - thanks for the links / code. much appreciated.. Purchased the Airtex kit from Rockauto...
Click to expand...

One thing I forgot to mention is to order a bunch of things along with your purchase,.. Things like air filters, oil filters, wiper blades, spark plugs, headlight bulbs, turn signal and other bulbs, PCV valves, fuses, accessory belts, etc. ect...

If they ship from the same warehouse, there us often no extra shipping charges.

I've seen wiper blades on sale for a buck and a half.
 
pcb said:
What ??
I think I know what you mean but I didn't think of that when I did my car...

The cams don't want to sit where the timing marks are lined up... They're under spring pressure to pop a tooth or two outta wack,... so whatever holds them in place would help... Including a friend to hold them.
(give him beer and he'll be happy to help)
Click to expand...

I use clamps like these https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-QUICK-GRIP-2-in-Clamp/50214657

I put the belt on so the cams ARE lined up, and then put a clamp on each cam to hold the belt to it. The belt will hold the cams in place as long as you can keep the teeth from the belt from slipping (Which is where the clamps come in) If the cams move a little it really doesn't matter, they'll straighten back out and pull to where they're supposed to be when you put the belt on the crank, but they don't move much or far. I've done it for years this way and i've changed out hundreds of timing belts over the years.
 
pb4ugotobed said:
I put the belt on so the cams ARE lined up, and then put a clamp on each cam to hold the belt to it.
Click to expand...

The problem I had was that the cams wouldn't stay lined up.
IIRC,.. The cam on the right would want to spring clockwise putting slack on the belt and throwing off the teeth of the cam gear on the left,...

And you can't do one gear at a time. The belt is too wide and you need all three gears lined up perfectly to slide the belt on.

However,.. You've apparently done it so I must be missing something...

I didn't have a helper and I was holding the cam gears with wrenches using my forearms to hold them while using my hands to feed the belt on.
 
Going to throw a twist into this. For some reason, I was under the impression that the I / E needed to be on top, not side by side. Well, crap, they do line up. So my question would be where does the belt normally throw itself off time? At the crank? If so, it's still possible to be off time then. If not, then I'm back to square one.
 
I'm not sure but just for further assessment, try lining up your timing mark from your crank pulley and timing cover.



It is possible that the crank pulley has slipped but I don't think it's that common.
You don't have to take any more than the valve cover off to check it.
 
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Pics if they help.

Gears:
34gvz90.jpg


Timing:
9idxdu.jpg
 
This is your timing mark on your exhaust cam,.. Center of your picture.... The horizontal line.



It's hard to see but is there a horizontal line on the intake cam pointing right at it ??

IIRC the marks aren't centered on a particular tooth, they're off kilter by about .5 from the tooth.

Your crank timing looks wrong to me.
I forget if the scale is in 1 or 2 increments but either way it looks off.
It's either at 2.5 BTDC or 5 after TDC.

That's a tooth or two off kilter.
 
One way to look at all this is that replacing your timing belt is regular scheduled maintenance so it's not a waste of time or money to replace it.

My car was running fine when I changed mine,.. I didn't want to be stranded somewhere.

Your biggest problem is not knowing whether or not replacing it will fix your car... Too bad it didn't just snap, then you'd know for sure.

Line up all your marks after removing the crank pulley then check your timing again using your T-belt gear before removing the old belt just for piece of mind.
 
IIRC, there are timing marks on the backside of the cam gears and you can look straight across the engine from the other side and eye them up much easier than staring down into the engine bay.

I checked my parts car for reference but the cam gears (and maybe cam too ??) Must have been replaced or something and the marks are dots instead and they're not marked on the backside.
 
I found this picture in my archive.

It shows the timing marks more clearly and the magnets that give a signal to the cam sensor.

 
Do agree that changing out the belt will occur, either way. But my thoughts would be even if it's off by just a few degrees, wouldn't the motor even try to fire, backfire at least?
 
Possibly not ?? I know it can run being one tooth off but maybe not more ?
Sounds like your car was flooded too which could keep it from running.

I think you've got a very good chance of your car firing right up after your belt change and new/dry plugs.
 
I found this too...
All these symptoms can be caused by the T-belt skipping a tooth.



Another thing that may possibly be going on is that the ECU would almost certainly know that the cam and crank signals are no longer in sync so it disregards the cam info and maybe tries to compensate somehow.

Just having bad cam info is enough to stall the car.
 
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