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Thread: Warning - Possible Hatch Damage Due to Ice Forming

  1. #16
    Registered Member SaintsReturn's Avatar

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    I never thought about the ice impact before. I know when i went to change my plates yesterday, i opened the power tailgate and had to put A LOT of pressure on the door to stop it from moving up. I wanted to see where the safety measure kicked in and it was only when i had nearly all of my weight on it. And i am not small.

    Yes i know i can just push the button again, but i was checking to see if the door would see the resistance and kick back down or stop. The answer was not really. This is relevant since my wife will drive the car occasionally and it sits a lot higher in our garage, compared to her German car. I could only imagine what would happen with ice in there, until now...

    Good luck with the growing family!
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  2. #17
    Registered Member Lbear's Avatar

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    This is like ice dams on a roof or black ice forming on a roadway. Most builders should know about ice dams but even in 2018 they install roofs without taking into consideration the problems with ice damming and then when the condition are right. Ice dams occur. Most drivers know that black ice can form in the right conditions but they still drive fast and don't take into account black ice until they crash.

    I believe Mazda didn't know about this problem and it won't present itself until the condition are just right. Snow or rain has to melt, enter into that area, then it has to freeze. After all that happens, the owner has to open the tailgate when the ice is frozen in that area.

    I would voice your issues so Mazda can come up with a redesign in 2019. They might even do a TSB and do a warranty fix if enough people complain. Hard to say. The fix might be complex or simple.

  3. #18
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    The motor should've had a more sensitive fail safe built in so that it should've sensed resistance of something like ice blocking the door. IMO, it's on Mazda. What are you supposed to do? Thoroughly inspect the gap between the body and door every time you open it?

  4. #19
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    Yea I agree. It’s not possible to 100% prevent ice from ever forming. But the door motors should have a failsafe if there is resistance.

  5. #20
    Registered Member Lbear's Avatar

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    If there is ever a TSB then Mazda will probably re-flash the programming, if it can, to make the sensors more sensitive.

    If it snows or rains and then freezes, and your CX5 is outside, it would be wise probably not to operate the hatch.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lbear View Post
    If there is ever a TSB then Mazda will probably re-flash the programming, if it can, to make the sensors more sensitive.

    If it snows or rains and then freezes, and your CX5 is outside, it would be wise probably not to operate the hatch.

    What does this cost to fix?

  7. #22
    Registered Member Lbear's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman136 View Post
    What does this cost to fix?
    Nobody knows since there hasn't been a fix released yet. It might take a lot of work to fix it since it's a design flaw. Remember, these design flaws sometimes don't surface for a year or longer on newer models. It's not until the design has been exposed to all types of weather and scenarios does one finally get to see the flaws in it.

  8. #23
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    Sorry to year about your misfortune but this is the first time I am glad that I have a manual tail gate. Besides it gives me more exercise, walking around each time to open the gate manually.

  9. #24
    US Specs in Europe boandlkramer's Avatar

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    This is very unfortunate. I hope you get resolution.

    Makes me happy I have a two car garage that isn’t used like a giant overflow/storage space.
    -2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring Soul Red Premium
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  10. #25
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    The first thing that came to my mind was that in the area of consumer law, there is an implied warranty called "fitness for purpose". In your case, Mazda sold you a vehicle in Canada where it is almost guaranteed to rain/snow/freeze at some point during your ownership. Therefore, the vehicle should be able to be used as it was designed in such an environment. In your case, it didn't work properly. So I think that this would fall under that category and they should be responsible for fixing it.

    That being said, I am in the US and my understanding of the law is based on US law. So, I googled "Canada warranty fitness for purpose" and a case decided (eventually) in the plaintiffs favor came up so Canada has a similar law. The really funny part? The case was against Mazda! Read it here: http://www.lavery.ca/en/publications...-judgment.html

    I would run it by an attorney if I was you. I think you have a good case!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lbear View Post
    If there is ever a TSB then Mazda will probably re-flash the programming, if it can, to make the sensors more sensitive.

    If it snows or rains and then freezes, and your CX5 is outside, it would be wise probably not to operate the hatch.
    Lol! I'm not disagreeing with you, but I can see it in the owners manual now, "in case of bad weather, don't open the rear door!". Kind of defeats the purpose of having a remote controlled rear hatch...

  12. #27
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    Just an update: The car is fixed and my hatch is fully / safely usable again. Mazda was of no help, however I was lucky to find a body shop with a sr rep who seemed to care about my situation and want to help.

    3 body shops quoted $850 - $950 all in for a repair. Hatch replacement was absurdly expensive for the damage involved. I ended up getting it repaired for $480 all-in, once again only because someone absolutely outside of the situation decided to help me - and I'm very thankful for it.

    The metal on the roof was straightened by welding a small tab to the roof and popping the dent back out. PDR was not an option due to the complex bend and how it was at the edge of the panel. After the panel was reshaped the hatch was removed and the damage caused by the body work tool repaired. Then the top portion above the spoiler re-painted, then the hatch re-installed. They did all of this while I was in the hospital with my wife with our twins being delivered and I got the car back with a usable trunk the day after we got released from the hospital. It looks a million times better, the repair is not obvious and everything is working 100%. Needless to say, we are VERY thankful for the help.



    My twins were delivered early and they now occupy nearly all my time so I've moved on. Literally no time to do anything other than be happy that they're here healthy and continue on with every day life. In the end I'm still disappointed with how Mazda and my servicing / purchasing dealer handled the situation - but that damage is done. I still love the car and how it drives, but my faith in the brand is no longer unquestioned. Before this had happened I had intended to purchase extended warranty due to my usage, however I've now chosen against that.

    In my humble opinion if an independent body shop was able to repair for this amount the dealer's own internal body shop could've offered the same discounted service with Mazda's support and I would've walked away from the whole situation with much more satisfaction as a customer. But... it didn't work out that way and that dealer's lost me for good.

    I just had my 1 yr maintenance done at another dealer 10 minutes further away and drove away completely satisfied. Even though the drive was longer it was all back roads and much more pleasant. And to my surprise they shuttled me all the way back home and picked me back up at the end of the day.

    My previous dealer will lose the $ amount equal to my repair in revenue from me with my regular maintenance visits within the next calendar year (I drive 40k / yr), not including any future non-maintenance business.

    Oh well, onward and upward.

    I'll end it with the fact that if this happens again next year I'll be ditching it much earlier than planned. This is not something I want to have to do on a regular basis.

  13. #28
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    Arrow Warning - Possible Hatch Damage Due to Ice Forming

    Quote Originally Posted by Studum View Post
    Just an update: The car is fixed and my hatch is fully / safely usable again. Mazda was of no help, however I was lucky to find a body shop with a sr rep who seemed to care about my situation and want to help. ⋯
    Firstly, congrats to your new twins! They're going to keep you two busy for the next 20+ years!

    Secondly, we're glad you've fixed your damage on liftgate with minimum expense and good result.

    Thirdly, IMO this's at fault to Mazda North American Operations, not to your Mazda dealer. The final decision would come from MNAO for your compensation due to a bad design, and your dealer can't do nothing about it unless they're willing to pay the mistake for Mazda. My friend is having similar situation for his defective LED headlights on his 2016 CX-5. MNAO is only willing to help him $1,500 for both headlight replacements, that means $900 ~ $1,700 out of his pocket for a 19,500-mile、37-month old CX-5! Especially he learned from this forum that some CX-5 owners did get free replacement on their LED headlights without new-car warranty, one example with almost 70,000 miles! He has been taking my suggestions and bought 2 Mazda's in his last two new car purchases. Now he's in process of getting another new vehicle and he's not going to consider a Mazda this time based on his bad experience with MNAO!

  14. #29
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    I know Mazda Canada is the one who denied the claim. That was disappointing on its own. My secondary issue with the dealer themselves is they could've - independently of Mazda's decision not to fully reimburse them for the fix - arranged a discounted rate at their body shop. It still would've been help and still would've meant something - and this lack of independent help hurts even more than Mazda themselves denying my claim.

    I'm not saying they had to lose money on the repair, but they could've offered the fix closer to cost or at least at some sort of discount. Instead I was told to call my insurance if I wasn't happy with what I was hearing. From my end if my past 2+ years of service loyalty and a vehicle purchase didn't mean enough to them to give me some sort of help on this I'm no longer going out of my way to maintain a "relationship" with them. My business was theirs to lose, and they've succeeded.

    The dealer I was working with was the closest dealer to my house, but in the wrong direction. Right now I have to skip across town or hop on a busy highway under endless construction to get there. I have another dealer 10 minutes further away, but it's all back-road driving joy to get there (this is where I just had my first annual / big service done after getting the car back from the body shop).

    I also have another dealer directly on my commute to work at about the half way point where if I coordinate it right I can stop for an oil change first thing in the morning when they open and carry on my way when it's done.

    Or I can go to the dealer in the city where I work and get a shuttle to the office.

    All of the above I had avoided to try and build a relationship at the first dealer.

    My point is I made an effort to build and keep a relationship with this one dealer and if that relationship doesn't mean anything when I need it to, then I will get my warranty required work done wherever is most convenient for me at the time and keep my documents in order if I have an issue.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Studum View Post
    I know Mazda Canada is the one who denied the claim. That was disappointing on its own. My secondary issue with the dealer themselves is they could've - independently of Mazda's decision not to fully reimburse them for the fix - arranged a discounted rate at their body shop. It still would've been help and still would've meant something - and this lack of independent help hurts even more than Mazda themselves denying my claim.

    I'm not saying they had to lose money on the repair, but they could've offered the fix closer to cost or at least at some sort of discount. Instead I was told to call my insurance if I wasn't happy with what I was hearing. From my end if my past 2+ years of service loyalty and a vehicle purchase didn't mean enough to them to give me some sort of help on this I'm no longer going out of my way to maintain a "relationship" with them. My business was theirs to lose, and they've succeeded.

    The dealer I was working with was the closest dealer to my house, but in the wrong direction. Right now I have to skip across town or hop on a busy highway under endless construction to get there. I have another dealer 10 minutes further away, but it's all back-road driving joy to get there (this is where I just had my first annual / big service done after getting the car back from the body shop).

    I also have another dealer directly on my commute to work at about the half way point where if I coordinate it right I can stop for an oil change first thing in the morning when they open and carry on my way when it's done.

    Or I can go to the dealer in the city where I work and get a shuttle to the office.

    All of the above I had avoided to try and build a relationship at the first dealer.

    My point is I made an effort to build and keep a relationship with this one dealer and if that relationship doesn't mean anything when I need it to, then I will get my warranty required work done wherever is most convenient for me at the time and keep my documents in order if I have an issue.
    The dealer seemed an asshole anyhow, not a great customer service even if its not their fault.

    As a word of wisdom, in Winter you need to always check if its clear (no ice or hard snow blocking the path) ...same thing could happen if you open the hood and there is snow/hard ice blocking the path. Difference is that the hood is not controlled through a motor so you would feel the resistance and stop opening it

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